Milky Way Ancients more powerful?

[Morphiex]

btw what the hell does "on the path to ascention" mean? How do you difirentiate between your garden variety ancient and the one on the "path"? Furthermore, how do you get to go on the path? Is it like some weird level up thing:

"Yes, I'm lvl 20 ancient-I can ascend now!"

your thoughts?

ascention is basicly in a way nirvana , a state of being where ur mind is no longer in need of the physical body...

and to become ascended i think , u have to have knowledge and understanding of all and everything... ... its basicly the ultimate power .....

the more knowledge u have the stronger ancient u are , i think its sumthing like that....

[Morphiex]

Morphi, they shared a galaxy with the Ori before coming the Milky Way to escape them.

oki so let me make a new theory :

so they first began in the same galaxy as the orai . and after having a conflict or war or sumthing with the orai they decided to escape to another galaxy , after some time the ancients traveled between galaxies and put stargates all over the place , they came to the milky way galaxy , the orai didnt know where the ancients went cuz they were not ascended yet , neither were the ancients.
the ancients then built atlantis on earth , cuz earth was theyr home defence base...
but after finding out about the wraith they decided to send the atlantis "ship" to the pegasus galaxy to help the ancients there to fight the wraith , but the ancients found out that it was very difficult to fight the wraith and decided to abandon atlantis and went back to milky way galaxy , probably because they found out about the virus while they were fighting the wraith , and couldnt manage both things at the same time... after returning to the milky way galaxy they decided the only way to save theyr people was to basicly ascend , and rid themselfs of theyr physical bodys , after some time the orai also ascended , and they probably knew that if they could have ascended the ancients had also ascended , but they still couldnt find out where the ancients went , cuz the ancients were protecting the other galaxies from the orai, until daniel came to meet the orai.... then all hell broke loose

thats a pretty good theory , right ?

[ItsDan]

Yes but you need to get caught up on the rest of the episodes, some of the assumptions you're making have been cleared up in recent episodes.

[AscendedWarrior]

The asgard are not descendants of the ancients, we know the asgard were allies with the Ancients but they had not always known of each other.

[An Ancient]

Thats true but they were human and after a few million years you would thing the PJ would be more antiquated to them than horse and cart is to us.
I can understand why the tollan surpassed us but the goauld who abducted them? The goauld were using the same ships when humans on earth thought the world was flat that they are today.
The asgard appear to be using the same beaming tech that they were 5000years ago and even the same flagship till the replicators destroyed it.

Until they found the Wraith there was absolutely no need for the Pegasus Ancients to advance, they were far and away the most advanced race present, without any need to advance, why would they bother?

[An Ancient]

My personal view is the Pegasus Ancients were some form of scouting/science expedition, once in Pegasus, being supremely powerful, they got complacent and even regressed slightly, being of a very limited gene pool.

Meanwhile, back in the MW, the bulk of the Ancients continued to advance steadily, since they had a more active environment (other cultures, the Ori threat etc), they kept going and became far more technologically advanced. These Ancients, by any indication, had very long lifespans and evolved to the point where they could ascend, I think these ones naturally developed the full range of Ancient non-ascended powers over time, until they could do almost anything, (bear in mind Khaleks abilities). Then, when the plague came, most of them could ascend. Thus ended the physical presence of the ancients in the MW.

Bearing in mind the state of the Asguard even a few 10k years back, this even would have taken place probably between 10 and 20k years ago.

You'll see why in a moment.

Meanwhile, cut off from mainstream Ancient civilisation, the Pegasus Ancients happily cruise along, although their abilities are vastly less. Suddenly, the Wraith turn up, big panic ensues, they were never equipped to fight a galactic scale war and over time have lost most of their genetic advancements due to a degree if inbreeding. They put in a panic call back to the MW, send help, wipe out these things! Only there is no reply than intergalatic static, the MW Ancients are gone.

They keep fighting as best they can on their own, when one of the Ascended appears to them, and basically tells them to get with the program, they can't win, they can't run, but there is another way out.

Hence the crash course on ascension, with 'reasearch' the Ancients apparently embarked on, with such a fast course, the abilities inherent to the advancments cannot manifest themselves wholly in the short time available and hence the patchy nature of their appearance in the rushed version of ascension the Atlantians try.

Eventually some make it, most don't before time's up and they are forced to return to Earth via conventional means. However, with their being far closer to ascension than previously, their lifespans are enough to hide out on Earth and scout out the new Milky Way, the last of them dieing/ascending around the time of Merlin.

This would explain the tech differences and how an MW ancient can survive millions of years in ice, whereas Pegasus ones can't make 10k years in a statis pod. It would also explain the apparent differences in the powers possessed by the various types of Ancients and also why the Ori or whoever used a plague (against an entire race of technologically superior people who would be like Khalek x 10 millitary conforntation would've been out of the question).

[AscendedWarrior]

But in the show they clearly say that Atlantis was the crown jule of the ancients empire, so there must be some advanced tech there.

[Mattathias2.0]

From what we've learned from Atlantis tho the life spans of those not on the path to ascention seem to be close to ours with out tech aid so what ever happened to her must have happened relatively quickely.

Something had to happen between when we saw her in Rising, and Frozen. The Ancient Outpost on Earth did have a ZPM... So how did it become depleted? Energy doesn't disappear.

I would doubt the other Ancients would leave her there without a working ZPM.

Mattathias

[newtrekker]

I for one, am a strong believer that the Ancients had something to do with getting Ra to leave and not blow up Earth as he left. Maybe confronted him in orbit right before he was about to fire upon the world of slaves that revolted against him.

Steve

That's exactly what I was thinking

[nickak2003]

One question Ive got on frozen is, how did she become frozen? people dont just freeze for no reason, especially if they are not already dead.

On the wraith being wusses, I think its boring to assume that their culture and organization was the same then as it is now. The wraith could have been a democracy back in the day for all we know...

I think that while the anceints may have returned through the earth gate, that does not mean that some if not many of them went back through it to where ever. Maybe some went to the tollan homeworld. It seems strange to me to think that many of the anciets would stick on earth when clearly theres plenty of ancient tech and ruin about. The second timeship may have been created by an ancient after returning from atlantis, he had to have advanced resources to do that.

In the one atlantis episode which showed the ancients returning through the gate, it didnt seem like they would blend in to ancient egypt very well. They would have probably been noticed, considering the gate was probably a public point of interest. I think they turned around and gated to another planet, and then some may have returned later in disguise.


In the stargate movie, ra blasted off from abydose and it looked like he was planning to just fly off and maybe return later (or maybe not). I dont see why he would blow up earth when he could just come back in a few decades.

[Peoples_General]

But in the show they clearly say that Atlantis was the crown jule of the ancients empire, so there must be some advanced tech there.

At that time, yes, Atlantis was the Ancient's best creation. But that was MILLIONs of years ago.

An_Ancient's theory is the most understandable as to why there's huge differences between the Ancients of the Milky Way compared to the Ancients who travelled to Pegasus. I agree that the Pegasus Ancients STAGNATED technologically and physiologically. Whereas the ones in the MilkyWay continued to develop, hence their more advanced Ancients stuff in the Milky Way.

[Jarnin]

They did recreate all life (exept plants ,i think).

All life includes plants, animals, bacteria, fungus, and so on. They either created it all (highly unlikely), or they only recreated what was infected and destroyed by the plague (plausable).

Fossil records don't lie. Since Stargate is supposed to take place in the "real world" that means that any conjecture that deals with the second evolution of the ancients has to be compatible with what we know about evolution on Earth.
If the plague happened millions of years ago, and it happened on all earth-like planets in our galaxy, that would mean it happened on Earth as well. We'd have a record of a massive extinction event wiping out all life on Earth, and then we'd have a record of life somehow bouncing back and evolving at an unnatural pace. Nothing in the fossil record shows that happening.

And yes, the Atlantis guys left so not to be infected with the plague. There were no uninfected worlds exept for other galaxies.

We don't know when the plague occured. We know roughly when Atlantis left for Pegasus, but without some way to know when the plague struck, there's no way to know.

The ancients only used the dekara device to clean the galaxy from the plague. Then life evolved again.

Intelligent life evolved from native life, which wasn't effected by the plague. That is at least possible, and could happen within the last 5-10 million years.

Especially when you take account of people from earth like the tollans who advanced reletively quickley in such a sort space of time to surpass the goauld who took them.

There isn't any evidence that the Goa'uld took the Tollan from Earth. When asked about the Goa'uld, they simply answered "We are aware of them".

Well of course they would have to be disguised and do what the people did in those days, but they don't have to avoid SG-1. They don't need to tell SG-1 that they're the Ancients.

Why wouldn't they? They would have known that SG-1 traveled back in time twice in an ancient puddlejumper which was converted into a time machine. You'd think that that would be a pretty remarkable event, people from the future using technology from the past to change their history.

And considering how the Lantians regarded time travel, you'd think the ancients who may have been around would be pretty pissed at SG-1 for messing with time.

There's no evidence to support that the ancients helped in the rebellion against Ra. The burden of proof is yours.

Yeah, why advance when the technology you have now is the most powerful in the galaxy?

There's always a better way to do something.

I for one, am a strong believer that the Ancients had something to do with getting Ra to leave and not blow up Earth as he left.

I'm a strong believer of proving one's claims.

oki so let me make a new theory

It wouldn't be a new theory, it'd be a new hypothesis. Theories are created by observing, hypothesizing, experimenting, then publishing for peer review.
What you did was observe (incorrectly), then hypothesis, then publish for peer review.
The experiment part usually consists of trying to disprove your own hypothesis, which you apparently skipped. Don't feel badly though, practically nobody here tries to disprove their own hypothesis.

The asgard are not descendants of the ancients, we know the asgard were allies with the Ancients but they had not always known of each other.

We don't "know" the ancients, but we know we're their descendants. We're also, according to the Asgard, on our way to becoming members of the alliance, in which be allies with a couple races we have never met.

Your argument is flawed.

But in the show they clearly say that Atlantis was the crown jule of the ancients empire, so there must be some advanced tech there.

That was Vis Uban, not Atlantis.

Something had to happen between when we saw her in Rising, and Frozen. The Ancient Outpost on Earth did have a ZPM... So how did it become depleted? Energy doesn't disappear.

The ZPM in Atlantis was depleted due to the shield holding back the water. The ZPM in the outpost was depleted due to the shield holding back the ice.
The ZPM in the outpost on Taonas wasn't depleted because the lava that covered the shield eventually hardened into a natural shield, allowing the outpost shield to power down.

One question Ive got on frozen is, how did she become frozen? people dont just freeze for no reason, especially if they are not already dead.

Where was the outpost when Atlantis left? On the surface of a glacier. Where was the outpost when we found it? Under 2 miles of ice. Had Ayiana stayed in the outpost, she would have been trapped.
She was probably trying to make it to the stargate in order to leave Earth and got lost. Remember, the Antarctic gate was moved by glacial activity over the years; she probably couldn't find it and froze.

It seems strange to me to think that many of the anciets would stick on earth when clearly theres plenty of ancient tech and ruin about.

There's evidence to support that all the ancients who came to Earth from Pegasus left Earth right away. After all, there were at least a hundred ancients that left Pegasus, and yet they seem to have had no problem with Ra ruling over Earth for thousands of years.

I know some people here support the idea that they had something to do with the rebellion on Earth, but Moebius I & II show no evidence to support that line of thinking.

The second timeship may have been created by an ancient after returning from atlantis, he had to have advanced resources to do that.

The second time ship was definately built after they left Pegasus. Janus hadn't built any timeships before they left in the timeline Atlantis is now following, he had only worked on designing a timeship at that point. Since Weir came back in a ship based on his designs, he knew his design would work, so he built one (or more) after they got back to the Milky Way.

In the one atlantis episode which showed the ancients returning through the gate, it didnt seem like they would blend in to ancient egypt very well. They would have probably been noticed, considering the gate was probably a public point of interest. I think they turned around and gated to another planet, and then some may have returned later in disguise.

That's assuming that Ra and his Jaffa goon squad was on Earth at the time. I agree that they probably left right away. There is a lack of evidence to have them running around from about 10,000 BCE to about 3000 BCE.

They were likely here when the ancient Greek civilizations (~2000 BCE) kicked off, definately around when ancient Roman civilization kicked off (~1000 BCE), and also definately around during the time of King Arthur (~500 CE).

In the stargate movie, ra blasted off from abydose and it looked like he was planning to just fly off and maybe return later (or maybe not). I dont see why he would blow up earth when he could just come back in a few decades.

I think that at that point in time, Ra already had hundreds of worlds with human slaves/hosts available, so retaining control of Earth was pointless. Apparently the Goa'uld consider Earth a "backwater planet".

However, there is alot of evidence that after Ra left Earth, other Goa'uld came here. Belus, who killed Omaroca in Babylon around 2000 BCE (from Fire and Water). Hathor, who was supposedly imprisoned on Earth ~2000 years ago (Hathor). Sokar, who took early Christians from medieval Europe around 1000 CE (from Demons). Seth was on the planet up until about 6 years ago.

The Giza Gate was supposedly buried all that time, so either they came in ships, or they came through the Antarctic gate, which was also probably buried at the time. I know Daniel tried to explain Sokar abducting early Christians from Europe with the Antarctic gate; apparently Sokar coming to Earth in a ship didn't seem like a more plausible answer.

[Avatar28]

An_Ancient, that's certainly the best theory I've heard to explain the differences. Although we know that the ancients who returned had to have travelled back out into the galaxy to account for the time machine PJ that was found. Perhaps they came through, found everything frozen and no one about and decided to head to warmer climes.

AscendedWarrior, we don't KNOW that the Asgard couldn't be descended from the Ancients. Sure, they were allies, but the Asgard Thor showed us looked rather human. Thus far, all the human races we've found have been decended from/seeded by the ancients so there's precendent. Atlantis left millions of years ago. If other ships also left at the same time it's not unreasonable to assume that one could have gone to the Asgard's original home galaxy too. If something happened to that expedition (natural disaster, crash landing, whatever), a few million years is MORE than enough time for an isolated species in isolation to develop into a different species. Heck, that might even explain how the Asgard got onto their cloning kick. There were not many who survived so they started using cloning to expand their numbers more effectively than they could through the more, ah, traditional way.

Not saying that's the way of it, but with the direction the show has tended to take I most certainly would NOT be surprised to see a development like that. For that matter, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the Nox were ultimately descended from the Ancients too.

[Jarnin]

An_Ancient, that's certainly the best theory I've heard to explain the differences.

The plague had apparently already striken the ancients before Atlantis left 5-10 million years ago; Ayiana had it.

The big problem with the whole plague plot is that they've never told us when it happened, but they've seem to have blamed it on the Ori. Since the Ori-Alteran split is supposed to predate the Alteran settling the Milky Way galaxy, then it's likely the plague happened within a few thousand or million years of their arrival in this galaxy.
The ascended Alterans supposedly "shielded" the Milky Way from the Ori after the plague, so the Ori thought they had killed all the Alterans and forgot about the Milky Way.
The surviving ancients went on to become the Lantian civilization, which went around seeding worlds to repopulate their kind. When they had finished here, they moved on to Pegasus to continue seeding planets.

In the last 5-10 million years, they seeded over a thousand worlds and had humans evolve on them. If it took 5-10 million years for the Lantians to seed Pegasus, then it should take a much longer time to seed the Milky Way, because the Milky Way is hundreds of times larger than Pegasus with perhaps thousands of more planets.

So the idea that the plague struck some time around 50 million years ago seems to fit. However, the plague seems to have persisted up until they left the Milky Way for Pegasus, because Ayiana had it when she was found.

AscendedWarrior, we don't KNOW that the Asgard couldn't be descended from the Ancients. Sure, they were allies, but the Asgard Thor showed us looked rather human. Thus far, all the human races we've found have been decended from/seeded by the ancients so there's precendent. Atlantis left millions of years ago. If other ships also left at the same time it's not unreasonable to assume that one could have gone to the Asgard's original home galaxy too.

The Asgard Jack met in The Fifth Race did say "the ancients moved on from this region of space long ago" (paraphrased). Sounds to me like they seeded their galaxy and left to start over in another galaxy.

For that matter, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the Nox were ultimately descended from the Ancients too.

And the Furling. And the Gadmeer. And all the other species we've seen from other galaxies that are humanoid. We've already seen proof of other "Atlantis-Class" cityships (The Tower), it's just a matter of time until the writers get the ball rolling on that story arc.

[An Ancient]

But in the show they clearly say that Atlantis was the crown jule of the ancients empire, so there must be some advanced tech there.

Probably because it was a space-going city, after that, the Ancients advanced in technology etc, but they didn't build anything quite on the scale of a flying city.