Is the Daedalus a BC-303?

[NakedJehutyV2]

yes it does work like that

[walterIsTheMan]

Logic and comments by characters and gateworld and the omnipedia and almost every stargate encyclopedia ever made says that the Daedelus is the BC-303 while the Prometheus is the X-303. The new design for the Daedelus can be attributed for to a change in the technology configuration as the need came to have technology integrated instead of installed after. The prometheus was a prototype and therefore not the final design. The Daedelus is there to correct problems which may have arose in the original 303 design used in the X-303 and redesign the vesel for the production model, the BC 303.

Actually, logic does not suggest it. Read my earlier post explaining proper USAF designations. Comments by characters have never said that the Daedalus is a BC-303. The Omnipedia does not say that the Daedalus is a BC-303. Wikipedia (though it should not be used a source) says that Daedalus is not a 303. And as Sam Fisher pointed out, many many fans on other sites (why there are so many hold outs on GW is beyond me) have come to the conclusion that it's not a BC-303.

As to your "explanation" of the design differences, again it's the same explanation that you all keep using, and it's still flawed. If you don't want to read my posts, fine. But for God sakes go read about aerospace registry nomenclature.

[NakedJehutyV2]

bc303 is the daedalus

[Milleniumlance]

my head hurts....

[walterIsTheMan]

bc303 is the daedalus

Have you even read the evidence or do you just keep going?

[NakedJehutyV2]

have you?

[walterIsTheMan]

have you?

Yes I have, if you could call it evidence. The "Enemy Mine" quotes took place over a year before we ever saw Daedalus. For all we know they had every intention on building BC-303's, but changed their mind. Carter's quote did not mention registry at all, end it's hardly evidence anywa because the image on her screen was a Prometheus design anyway.

[Exiled Master]

Can't we just leave this to Joe? (okay, I guess not)
Let's look at the existing designations. X-301: failed fighter prototype from Anubis gliders X-302: fighter prototype using human materials F-302: production model fighter X-303: Prometheus, human capital ship prototype BC-303: Daedalus, human production model capital ship WHY Because if wasn't, they would have said it had an unknown designation. Or TPTB zoned out while they were writing that part.

[NakedJehutyV2]

x303 is the prommie bc 303 is daedalus

i already asked him. he'll sort this out when he has time. till then annoy walter

[LORD MONK]

x303 is the prommie bc 303 is daedalus

i already asked him. he'll sort this out when he has time. till then annoy walter

Here I have one. The first X models of the B-2 Bomber. They look nothing like the B model. As a matter of fact, the B model has prepallers and not jet engines. And their are alot of different models.

So when it comes down to it, yes, the BC-303 is the X-303. But their not going to be making no more Promies that's for sure. The Promie was a prototype and the real BC-303 is the Big D.

[NakedJehutyV2]

Here I have one. The first X models of the B-2 Bomber. They look nothing like the B model. As a matter of fact, the B model has prepallers and not jet engines. And their are alot of different models.

So when it comes down to it, yes, the BC-303 is the X-303. But their not going to be making no more Promies that's for sure. The Promie was a prototype and the real BC-303 is the Big D.

i totally 100% agree

[Seastallion]

Yes I have, if you could call it evidence. The "Enemy Mine" quotes took place over a year before we ever saw Daedalus. For all we know they had every intention on building BC-303's, but changed their mind. Carter's quote did not mention registry at all, end it's hardly evidence anywa because the image on her screen was a Prometheus design anyway.

Okay... I have to take issue here. Just on a practicle level, you don't just suddenly alter the design of a very large ship your building in midstream. You just can't do it. It takes well over a year to build a ship of that magnitude. The Daedalus class of ships are directly based on the Prometheus design, with one major exception. The Daedalus class ships had of the most recent alien technologies built into the design itself in the first place. Yes there are significant hull layout changes, which would undoubtedly be because of weaknesses discovered in Prometheus design that weren't anticipated and couldn't really be completely compensated for. Even so, the Daedalus class ships have the same BASIC layout as the Prometheus. That much hasn't really changed. One difference that I immediately noticed when seeing the Daedalus for the first time was that the drive section seemed to have extra armor around it. All that extra mass would neccesitate extra sub-light engines to move the ship. Overall, however, there are no really major variations in the hull design, except that the ship has been flattened out, and widened. Other than that it still has the central primary hull, with the two launch bays on either side of the ship. It just isn't that different. It isn't as radical a change as say, between an Aircraft Carrier, and a Battleship. A more reasonable real-life analogy would be between the single launch (WW2 era) Aircraft carriers, and the modern double launch ones. There are modifications in the double launch ship that allow for more efficient ship operations, but the basic ship function remains the same. The same is true of the Daedalus. It has no major functional design that the Prometheus didn't.

It is true that the Prometheus and Daedalus are two different classes of Battlecruiser, but that doesn't effect the designation of BC-303. 303 is NOT a class number, it is development project number, and both Prommie and Daedy DID come from the same development program. So it doesn't change. 303 is a model number. BC is a type designation. So, the X-303 became the BC-303-01 upon being pressed into full military service, rather than just an experimental ship. The Daedalus, also of the same type and model (albeit with significant design modifications), became the BC-303-02. The Odyssey, will be the BC-303-03. All of them were a result of the X-303 (eXperimental type ship, 303rd design model... as opposed to the 302nd design model which became the F-302) development program, and none of them are radically different from each other in the sense of functional design application. Also, on Stargate Atlantis, Dr. McKay clearly identified the Daedalus as the "sister ship" to the Prometheus, meaning it was of the same basic functional design.

But honestly... I'm tired of debating it too. Ask Joe.

[walterIsTheMan]

Okay... I have to take issue here. Just on a practicle level, you don't just suddenly alter the design of a very large ship your building in midstream. You just can't do it. It takes well over a year to build a ship of that magnitude.

A good point, but unfortunately it's void. In reality, it takes several years to build a single aircraft carrier. These ships are likely larger and definitly more complex than aircraft carriers. There's no possible way that based on real-world timelines they could accomplish the task of building these vessels, especially if they have to keep the whole thing undercover from the general public. Therefore it's clear that Gate-verse construction capabilities are superior to those of the real world. So you cannot assume that it is or is not possible to significantly change the design in a short ammount of time. Also we see a diagram of the Daedalus on Carter's computer shortly before we see the ship itself, and the diagram looks nothing like the Daedalus. This clearly demonstrates that Carter's information is incorrect (of course the real reason is that TPTB screwed up) and therefore all references to the Daedalus made by her cannot be trusted.

The Daedalus class of ships are directly based on the Prometheus design, with one major exception. The Daedalus class ships had of the most recent alien technologies built into the design itself in the first place. Yes there are significant hull layout changes, which would undoubtedly be because of weaknesses discovered in Prometheus design that weren't anticipated and couldn't really be completely compensated for. Even so, the Daedalus class ships have the same BASIC layout as the Prometheus. That much hasn't really changed. One difference that I immediately noticed when seeing the Daedalus for the first time was that the drive section seemed to have extra armor around it. All that extra mass would neccesitate extra sub-light engines to move the ship. Overall, however, there are no really major variations in the hull design, except that the ship has been flattened out, and widened. Other than that it still has the central primary hull, with the two launch bays on either side of the ship. It just isn't that different. It isn't as radical a change as say, between an Aircraft Carrier, and a Battleship. A more reasonable real-life analogy would be between the single launch (WW2 era) Aircraft carriers, and the modern double launch ones. There are modifications in the double launch ship that allow for more efficient ship operations, but the basic ship function remains the same. The same is true of the Daedalus. It has no major functional design that the Prometheus didn't.

On the contrary, the design changes have significantly changed the layout of the ships. First, the flight pods are on the side instead of underneath. That means restructuring the location of maintenence bays, storage rooms, as well as flight crew sleeping quarters. Since it can carry more F-302's there must be a larger flight crew and likely a larger ship crew as well since it appears to be larger than the Prommie. That means more quarters as well as increased resource consumption. That means you have to redesign the whole power system so it is rated for higher energy flow, add more life support systems, and carry more consumables. Also, if you really want to use what Carter says, then I will remind you that she said the modifications were integrated into the design instead of added on, which implies that the original design is significantly different than that of Prometheus. Plus the fact that the hull shape is completely different is not as trivial as you seem to make it. That means you have to reconfigure the entire interior of the ship.

If you want to use aircraft carrier analogies, then here is a more appropriate one. The new class of carriers beginning with the CVNX-01, which is scheduled to begin construction within the next few years, is going to have significant hull changes as well as a different power system and many other modifications. Though it is the same mission as an older carrier and bears a physical resemblence, it is a completely different class and model.

Also if you would like another example from the Navy, the USS Enterprise was it's own class and design and the Nimitz-class ships followed. Like Prommie, Enterprise was the only ship in it's class and was an experimental prototype used for the production prototype USS Nimitz. Remember, the registry systems are different between Navy and AF. In the AF technically there is no "class". So "class" in Navy is comparable to design number in AF.

It is true that the Prometheus and Daedalus are two different classes of Battlecruiser, but that doesn't effect the designation of BC-303. 303 is NOT a class number, it is development project number, and both Prommie and Daedy DID come from the same development program. So it doesn't change. 303 is a model number. BC is a type designation. So, the X-303 became the BC-303-01 upon being pressed into full military service, rather than just an experimental ship. The Daedalus, also of the same type and model (albeit with significant design modifications), became the BC-303-02. The Odyssey, will be the BC-303-03. All of them were a result of the X-303 (eXperimental type ship, 303rd design model... as opposed to the 302nd design model which became the F-302) development program, and none of them are radically different from each other in the sense of functional design application. Also, on Stargate Atlantis, Dr. McKay clearly identified the Daedalus as the "sister ship" to the Prometheus, meaning it was of the same basic functional design.

But honestly... I'm tired of debating it too. Ask Joe.

See this information is completely incorrect. I don't mean to be mean, but seriously do some research into aerospace designations before you try to defend your argument. 303 is a design number, not a model designation. Significant design changes result in a new design number. You were at least close on the BC part. BC is the mission of the ship, not the "type". When there is a new design (as explained in my earlier post) that requires a new prototype. Since there is already an X-303, and since the ship is a significant redesign (as explained above) then more than likely it is a 304 (unless TPTB wised up and switched to the Naval system). Also it is likely not an X-304, but a Y-304. As explained earlier, Y is used when a prototype is low risk and intended to go into production. Once a ship enters service the experimental mission is usually abandoned and redesignated with the planned mission, in this case BC. Therefore the Daedalus is likely a BC-304.

You are correct about the series numbers though, since they change based on mission, not design number. So likely Prommie is BC-303-01, Daed BC-304-02,

Spoiler:

Odyssey BC-304-03

and so on.

I'm really not trying to be mean or provoke an argument here, but it honestly seems to me that no one is reading on the aerospace designations. You guys just keep repeating the same basic thing, "Prommie was X-303, Daed was based on Prommie so its BC-303". No one is reading the evidence that blatantly disproves this theory. I have read what you guys have argued, why are you not reading what I am saying?

[talyn2k1]

OK. lets try to put this baby to bed (atleast for a few weeks).

Moebius - Diagram on monitor is clearly Prometheus design which indicates that Daed was originally going to be a sister ship to Prometheus but then TPTB changed their minds and decided to make a new design (a good decision as Daedie rocks!). So this info is out.
Which leaves the fact that it has been referred to as Prommie's sister ship as the ONLY evidence that it is supposed to be a 303. Ignoring Enemy Mine as this was really more of a throwaway line than anything else.

This argument will NEVER be settled until we see

Spoiler:

the Odyssey in 'Off the Grid' and only if we can make out a registry or a line states the fact

.

So can we all just let this argument lie until we have seen this episode and HOPEFULLY, TPTB will put something in to confirm Daedalus' true designation as either BC-303, BC-304, etc.

In the words of Vic Reeves "Just let it lieee!"

[LORD MONK]

OK. lets try to put this baby to bed (atleast for a few weeks).

Moebius - Diagram on monitor is clearly Prometheus design which indicates that Daed was originally going to be a sister ship to Prometheus but then TPTB changed their minds and decided to make a new design (a good decision as Daedie rocks!). So this info is out.
Which leaves the fact that it has been referred to as Prommie's sister ship as the ONLY evidence that it is supposed to be a 303. Ignoring Enemy Mine as this was really more of a throwaway line than anything else.

This argument will NEVER be settled until we see

Spoiler:

the Odyssey in 'Off the Grid' and only if we can make out a registry or a line states the fact

.

So can we all just let this argument lie until we have seen this episode and HOPEFULLY, TPTB will put something in to confirm Daedalus' true designation as either BC-303, BC-304, etc.

In the words of Vic Reeves "Just let it lieee!"

Well, I quess I will never know because I couldn't read your spoiler.