Why is there a Point of Origin?

[deadman]

I see no-one has managed to shoot down my theory yet. IF you need a point of origin for the gate to know where your coming from, then:

Why is the origin not entered as a further 6 symbols? - IE 6 for the target and 6 for the source?

Otherwise, how come 1 symbol locates the source but you need 6 for the destination? - Why not use 1? eh?

Like I said, in reality I don't think the PoO is actually needed. Refer to my heat seaking missile analogy above.

-Turboz

You need the point of origin because it is a wormhole formed, and it needs to know where to take stuff in and spit it out.

[Turboz]

You need the point of origin because it is a wormhole formed, and it needs to know where to take stuff in and spit it out.

Ok, that being the case, why doesn't it take 6 symbols to describe the point of origin?

The target gate is found by using 6 symbols. Why does it NOT require 6 symbols to identify the point of origin?

I'll give you an example. To identify your real ID (deadman) I'd need your real name, social security number, address, phone number, date of birth etc. But how would you reall identify me if I only tell you that I am Turboz?

Do you see what I am saying? - Or are you still going to insist that the POO identifys the POO despite the fact it doesn't make any real sense?

As I said, does a heat seeking missile need to know it's GPS co-ordinates to lock onto enemy aircraft and chase it? - NO.

If you can come up with a better answer then I'd like to hear it.

-Turboz

[Seastallion]

LOL Look what I started back up..!

[LORD MONK]

I see no-one has managed to shoot down my theory yet. IF you need a point of origin for the gate to know where your coming from, then:

Why is the origin not entered as a further 6 symbols? - IE 6 for the target and 6 for the source?

Otherwise, how come 1 symbol locates the source but you need 6 for the destination? - Why not use 1? eh?

Like I said, in reality I don't think the PoO is actually needed. Refer to my heat seaking missile analogy above.

-Turboz

Daniel explins this in lamense terms. The first six marks a place in space and the seventh is the point of origin, where you are coming from. What is so hard to understand about this. Even my 9 year old niece understands it.

[Daryl Froggy]

Well the reason (I have no idea if this is really is it) that it takes six symbols to lock onto another planet is two-fold. First the gate that you are dialing from already knows where it is in the gate network and therefore doesn't need to be told where it is with six symbols. Second is that if it only took two symbols to dial another planet you would have far fewer addresses to dial in the first place(not a very interesting plot device).

You may debunk these reasons with whatever knowledge or technobabble you wish.

[ancientaction]

its just a designation point. since the dialing gate is already at the point of origin, the gate is the one sending the commands. but its looking for a gate that is 'out there' that has the possibility of not existing. so it has to give a definiet address. but the dialing gate being of extenal reference to the wormhole being created, needs a 'pickup' since its the dialing gate, it knows where its at. so only a simple 'shore address(poo) is needed.

[Turboz]

Daniel explins this in lamense terms. The first six marks a place in space and the seventh is the point of origin, where you are coming from. What is so hard to understand about this. Even my 9 year old niece understands it.

Lord Monk, well I'm glad your 9 yr old understands it. I too understand what your trying to say but the theoretical side of it still doesn't quite add up. How can one gate out of millions be identified using 1 symbol? - Especially when it takes 6 to identify the source...

Well the reason (I have no idea if this is really is it) that it takes six symbols to lock onto another planet is two-fold. First the gate that you are dialing from already knows where it is in the gate network and therefore doesn't need to be told where it is with six symbols. Second is that if it only took two symbols to dial another planet you would have far fewer addresses to dial in the first place(not a very interesting plot device).

You may debunk these reasons with whatever knowledge or technobabble you wish.

Well I sure will debunk it.

1) Yes the dialling gate knows where it is SO why does it need the POO at all? - It just creates the wormhole and CONNECTS to the target gate. If the source gate knows it's position then it can transmit it automatically - It shouldn't require the user to input 1 symbol manually - thats stupid. It would be like telling the burglar the combination to your alarm but letting him guess the last digit - pointless (with as many retries as he wants [0 - 9]).

2) Your theory is correct. Only using 2 symbols would create many problems. So why use even fewer - Like 1 symbol for the POO? - How can other gates identify the incoming source?

its just a designation point. since the dialing gate is already at the point of origin, the gate is the one sending the commands. but its looking for a gate that is 'out there' that has the possibility of not existing. so it has to give a definiet address. but the dialing gate being of extenal reference to the wormhole being created, needs a 'pickup' since its the dialing gate, it knows where its at. so only a simple 'shore address(poo) is needed.

Why does the dialling gate need a pickup?
IF the 2 gates connect 1/2 way along the route then obviously the receiving gate needs the full co-ordinates to the transmitting gate so that the wormholes can connect. Now as I mentioned above this is all well and good if the transmitting gate automatically sends it full 6 symbol address. However why does it then require the user to input 1 symbol manually? - Pointless.

Perhaps this picture will show you what I mean.


-Turboz

[ancientaction]

like i said, the Dialing gate knows where its at, it knows it exists, or else, it wouldn't be dialing. but the destination gate, its not known if it exists, so a deffinet address is needed, is just a point of referenance address.

gate a is dialing gate b.

Gate A (earth) wants to dial gate B (Chulack) {other than the people manning the gate [sg-1], the gate itself may know know if the destination gate is still there, or if its in use} and there could be several gates in the same cluster in space. so a Definit address is needed.

for example. lets say your in kansas. and you want to get to florida. but youve never been to florida, you need directions, right. you know were your coming from. Kansas, you should know where your at. and how to get there from there. so a point of reference is needed. (zip code) but your destination, you may already know the zip code, but the the exact address you need, (street number, street name, city state, zip) is needed to 'plot' your course.

for example. in mapquest, you [used to] be able to get directions froma starting point of your zip code or city name.

because the gate already knows where its at. a point of reference is needed. not nessisarilty the entire plot (6 symbols)

[Seastallion]

Lord Monk, well I'm glad your 9 yr old understands it. I too understand what your trying to say but the theoretical side of it still doesn't quite add up. How can one gate out of millions be identified using 1 symbol? - Especially when it takes 6 to identify the source...



Well I sure will debunk it.

1) Yes the dialling gate knows where it is SO why does it need the POO at all? - It just creates the wormhole and CONNECTS to the target gate. If the source gate knows it's position then it can transmit it automatically - It shouldn't require the user to input 1 symbol manually - thats stupid. It would be like telling the burglar the combination to your alarm but letting him guess the last digit - pointless (with as many retries as he wants [0 - 9]).

2) Your theory is correct. Only using 2 symbols would create many problems. So why use even fewer - Like 1 symbol for the POO? - How can other gates identify the incoming source?



Why does the dialling gate need a pickup?
IF the 2 gates connect 1/2 way along the route then obviously the receiving gate needs the full co-ordinates to the transmitting gate so that the wormholes can connect. Now as I mentioned above this is all well and good if the transmitting gate automatically sends it full 6 symbol address. However why does it then require the user to input 1 symbol manually? - Pointless.

Perhaps this picture will show you what I mean.


-Turboz

I see you made use of my drawing... Modified it a bit, but it is definitely mine.

The original...

[Seastallion]

I don't really want to go through this whole thing again, so I'll just put the links to my previous posts, in the order I did them. It should be sufficient to help clear things up.

Oh... by the way. These posts are in the order I wrote them in.

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...1&postcount=22

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...9&postcount=26

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...5&postcount=30

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...4&postcount=31

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...2&postcount=65

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...0&postcount=73

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...3&postcount=75

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...1&postcount=78

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...4&postcount=83

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...0&postcount=85

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...7&postcount=87

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...1&postcount=89

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...9&postcount=91

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...5&postcount=93

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...&postcount=111

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...&postcount=116

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...&postcount=125

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...&postcount=126

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...&postcount=135

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...&postcount=138

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...&postcount=141

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...&postcount=143

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...&postcount=147

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...&postcount=148

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...&postcount=152

Okay... maybe something in there will help you folks. I'm just tired of doing point and counter-point all over again. If you want to know the answer to this thread, check it out. I ended up covering a whole range of topics about the PoO and stuff. *whew*

[Blaminator]

But why did the Ancients even have a Point of Origin?

Because they want to?

[Turboz]

Look I don't care about what you people say. I think the POO was a fancy way to bring Daniel Jackson into the plot in the movie.

I do not think it serves any real purpose at all.

Do you need to know your own phone number to ring someone else?

@SeaStallion: Yes made use of it - Thanks for that - made it much easier for me to get my point across.

-Turboz

[Harekin]

Would no POO not mean the command to create the wormhole would simply be sent to the destination gate and be disregarded? Possibly the POO is simply a command to loopback to the dialling gate and form a two ended wormhole?

[Seastallion]

Look I don't care about what you people say. I think the POO was a fancy way to bring Daniel Jackson into the plot in the movie.

I do not think it serves any real purpose at all.

Do you need to know your own phone number to ring someone else?

@SeaStallion: Yes made use of it - Thanks for that - made it much easier for me to get my point across.

-Turboz

No problem.

The PoO symbol serves as an activation component during manual dialings of the stargate. It also serves to tell the stargate when an inputted stargate address has been completed. Not all stargate addresses are 7 symbols in length (or 6, if you don't count the PoO). There lies an extremely remote possibility that an extra-galactic stargate (8 symbol) address would share the first 6 symbols with an intra-galactic stargate, so to let the departure stargate know the difference you must input the PoO symbol to tell the gate to activate. Other than that..? No, it isn't used for anything.

...and NO the stargate does not tell the other stargates where it is. It doesn't need to. It DOES recieve co-relative updates every few hundred years to update the stargate symbols' relative grid postions, to keep the stargate addresses valid because of stellar drift (or in the case of extra-galactic stargate addresses, universal expansion). It is possible, to alter the stargates so that they no longer use the standered galactic positioning grid, thus no longer transmitting co-relative updates to other stargates, except for those using the new positioning grid. That is what Ba'al tried to do. Essentially, the old addresses to those stargates would no longer work, because the spatial positions that the symbols represented would have been changed. An entirely new address would have to be used, even though the stargate itself may not have been moved because it is using a new grid. The PoO symbol, as always would remain the same no matter what. It does not serve the same functions as the other stargate symbols, therefore there would be no reason for it to change.

Hope that helped someone.

[LORD MONK]

Lord Monk, well I'm glad your 9 yr old understands it. I too understand what your trying to say but the theoretical side of it still doesn't quite add up. How can one gate out of millions be identified using 1 symbol? - Especially when it takes 6 to identify the source...

-Turboz

The one symbol is the seventh which is the PoO. The DHD's connect from time to time to calculate for drift. This info is stored in the PoO. In turn it says, I am over hear. So first six is where you are going and the seventh is the PoO saying I am over hear. So basically youa re dialing six and then six again. But the last six is just one symbol storing six symbols in it staing were you are.
I hope that made sense. I am a speaker not a writer. As you can tell.