P-90: the next generation

[helio9]

I highly doubt that. Most rifles overpenetrate, and only transfer about half their energy whereas shotties will most of the time tranfer all energy.

Most shotguns transfer all of their energy to their targets when they have buckshot rounds armed. You were advocating using sabot slugs to increase range. This makes it act like a rifle, and makes overpenetration entirely possible (isnt that the specialty of sabot rounds?).

Personally I think if you want to be reasonably true to reality, then assult rifles are the way to go. They're far more flexible in terms of the types of combat they are effective in. If in fact the Wraith breatplates don't act as armour, then use hollowpoints. If they do, use FMJs or something more exotic.

[Panther]

Sabot slugs come in many forms. There's the door knockers which which are solid lead or frangible steel which deform to blow locks off. You don't want a clean round hole to get rid of those. There's the less likely hood they'd overpenetrate.

[Cory Holmes]

Reeally, and I suppose the 5.56x45 M855 being a bigger and faster loads matters little in your world?

Bigger and faster doesn't neccissarily mean that it'll go through armour better. The 5.7mm round and weapons were designed specifically to be armour piercing.

However, it could be that the SGC decided that weight, size, ease of use, etc. all had a bearing on the switch to the P90.

Of course, we all know that the PTBs switched because the P90 looks cool

[immhotep]

also there is the issue of sending advaced wepaons in to enemy hands, as you said the enemy with a P-90 would be no match for our side with a M4 or M-16, however if we limited what they could capture we would be wise, the P-90 is a competent weapon and yet is expendabel because we have somewhat better weapons to fight with in the long run.

[zer0_1]

omg, that is the SC-20k from splinter cell, that looks awesome

[helio9]

Sabot slugs come in many forms. There's the door knockers which which are solid lead or frangible steel which deform to blow locks off. You don't want a clean round hole to get rid of those. There's the less likely hood they'd overpenetrate.

Just so I'm clear on what we're talking about here. Are you advocating using shotguns armed with frangible sabot rounds as primary weapons for Atlantis teams?

[Cory Holmes]

omg, that is the SC-20k from splinter cell, that looks awesome

The "SC-20k" is just a redressed F2000 by FN Herstal, the same company that makes the P90.

[Avatar28]

also there is the issue of sending advaced wepaons in to enemy hands, as you said the enemy with a P-90 would be no match for our side with a M4 or M-16, however if we limited what they could capture we would be wise, the P-90 is a competent weapon and yet is expendabel because we have somewhat better weapons to fight with in the long run.

Of course, you realize that by the same logic, we should never buy any advanced weapons for ANY of our troops (on or off earth) to use in battle lest the enemy capture one or more of them?

If militaries had thought like that historically, we'd still be using muskets in battle.

[Panther]

Bigger and faster doesn't neccissarily mean that it'll go through armour better. The 5.7mm round and weapons were designed specifically to be armour piercing.

However, it could be that the SGC decided that weight, size, ease of use, etc. all had a bearing on the switch to the P90.

Of course, we all know that the PTBs switched because the P90 looks cool

*Sigh*. Find out the construction of the M855 and come back to me. Alright?

On your second point... the M4 is light, easy to and fairly compact. It's more capable than the P90. What's your point?

also there is the issue of sending advaced wepaons in to enemy hands, as you said the enemy with a P-90 would be no match for our side with a M4 or M-16, however if we limited what they could capture we would be wise, the P-90 is a competent weapon and yet is expendabel because we have somewhat better weapons to fight with in the long run.

That's moronic. Let's sacrifice capability for the possibility that the weapon "may" be captured. You try to make your own as capable as possible. Do you see the US Military handing out crappy equipment to its soldiers in Iraq because the Insurgents "may" capture it?

[Cory Holmes]

On your second point... the M4 is light, easy to and fairly compact. It's more capable than the P90. What's your point?

My point is that there was no in-show reason given for the switch-over to the P90, so there could be any number of reasons that affected that choice. We can sit here and try to speculate all we want, but still never find out why.

[helio9]

M4s were never standard weapons. Before P90s as i recall, MP5s were standard. They occasionally used M4s when heavy combat was anticipated (Sam and Jack used them in the Nemesis arc) but after MP5s, they switched seamlessly into P90s. Jack talked to the Russian about it at the beginning of "The Tomb".

[SG-1ssm]

this is todays technology, and todays military...The FN P-90, was devloped for support teams, law enforcment, CC and indoor combat. That is basiclty what all SG teams do, we no 'at war'. We enforce the peace, fight when we have to , and can bring in the big guns when we want to, think about it, if we sent troops through the gate with the most powerfull guns we had, wed be a heck of alot better off but weve done pretty good with just a nice SMG.
The military adapts, and in their line of work the SG team need to adapt too, those guns are more powerfull yet desinged with the same function, its only logical to assume that they will upgrade. Btw that gun is the current P-90 TR which oniel uses, it just has all the latest accessories put in...if they would combine that design with rail gun technology ( power by a naquadah cell instead of a battery, like the airsoft version), or use intar technology, you could have the basis for an incredible effective weapon, accuracy, lightness,power and veritility.
for those who say the P-90 isnt a real weapon for soldiers, they should look at the role SG team have to play, they arnt going off to war, they are explorer that need some firepower when getting in and out of their goal. They have different weapons and will use them, but basicly the P-90 fufills all the main objectives.

Sorry man, but in reality the P-90 suckes. It was make to support personally behind the front lines. It has such a high rate of fire because it was designed for people who doesn't shoot that often. The show made the P-90 look good because they needed a real armor persing weapon.

[Panther]

Just so I'm clear on what we're talking about here. Are you advocating using shotguns armed with frangible sabot rounds as primary weapons for Atlantis teams?

Just so I'm clear on what we're talking about here, where did I say that?

SG-1ssm. The P90 does not suck. It performs well for what it was designed to do.

[helio9]

Just so I'm clear on what we're talking about here, where did I say that?

I was responding to Avatar28's post when I said this:

A 12-guage shotgun could probably down a Wraith in one shot, but as you know, it's range would be highly limited. One of the advantages of guns vs all the energy crap that the Wraith and Jaffa throw at us is that they can be used for medium range sniping if necessary. So maybe one team member could carry a shotgun, but I don't see it becoming standard.

Notice the part in bold.

To which you responded:

Two words for you. Sabot slugs.

And just so we're clear on one other thing, you're not the only one who knows things about guns. Get over yourself.

[Commander Aegir]

Really SG teams would be about 10 men/women, one with an M249 SAW, one with an M60, the team leader would have an M4 Carbine and the rest of the team would have M16A2s with two with underslung M203 grenade launchers.