ground technology

[helio9]

Actually a bradley could fit through the stargate but would be impractical to get through cheynee mountain, as it would be difficult if not impossible unless the crane above the stargate is used.

I dont think its full air support as it lacks the ability to carry much weight and a single hit by a staff can knock it down.

Really? I didn't know a Bradley was small enough for gate travel. I don't suppose an M1 could fit?

True, it's not full air support, but they could make advances in UCAV tech. Instead of flying at a couple hundred feet like the current UAVs, one's that fly at say 40 000 feet would be all but impossible for a Jaffa with a staff to shoot down. As for payload, same thing. Better engines equals better payload capacity. The only problem is that it would have to be recovered/destroyed after a mission, especially if some of the bombs/missiles were unused.

I am certain that ground base defences are being devleoped, but the ability of a ship like the aircraft carrier is power projection. Earth itself can't really be the site of a battleground, too much is going to be lost.

With ships, you can create buffer zones to buy time and destory forces away from civilizan areas.

Of course ships would be the primary defense, but as a last resort earth shouldn't be defensless. Like I said, planetary defenses are a lot easier if you don't have to keep it a secret.

[Avatar28]

Actually an M1 CAN fit but, honestly, would be rather pointless. The jaffa really have nothing (maybe short of an Alkesh) that could really touch it and since they don't typically have armored fortifications it's firepower isn't really needed. A better alternative would be a humvee (can be armored to resist staff/staff cannon blasts) with a heavy machine gun mounted on top or if you really need armored capability, a bradly would be easier to manage and would be as effictive as the Abrams for most any conceivable offworld situation. (incidentally, I wonder if the Kull warrior's suit would protect him from either a sabot or heat round fired by an Abrams tank).

As far as ground warfare technology goes the simple fact of the matter is that the stuff we've got is overall FAR better than we've seen from the other races. I have to recommend stargate-tech.net as a great resource for stuff like that. I present a good link or two for your reading pleasure.

Feasability of vehicle support through the stargate
Earth ground combat tech

[dosed150]

the uav can carry weapons see death knell

[Dutch_Razor]

Thx for the link Avatar28.

It would be nice to see a Abrham's be used in Stargate, although not practical, it'd be damn fun!

Imagine the looks of the Jaffa when they get owned by us "primitives", they'd probably think we borrowed something from another civilisation LOL.

An Abraham's owning a System Lord

[P3X-925]

... (incidentally, I wonder if the Kull warrior's suit would protect him from either a sabot or heat round fired by an Abrams tank)....

Didn't Carter detonate the missile off the UAV and it simply knocked the Kull warrior down? I'm guessing a direct hit may do something, but obviously the Kinetic (SP?) energy from the missile explosion didn't do diddly.

[tony]

Alot of the stuff you guys are suggesting really wouldnt work with the SG teams because they are recon special forces teams. espesially back when the goauld where still a searious threat a hummer or 50.cal gun mounted on a malp wouldnt really do much for the SG teams I mean there where some situations (very few) where a large SG force was used to attack a goauld occupide world and a tank or some hummers might have been useful but still with what the goauld had i think a death glider coulda taken either one of them out rather fast.. we would need some of the Anti Air batterys that tank divisions use to take out planes than we are talking buisness

[Avatar28]

Yeah, my bro graduated from Basic at Fort Knox this summer. They showed a bunch of pictures and some video clips and stuff during the ceremony, including some Abrams in action.

I just got this huge silly grin on my face as I pictured sending one of those bad boys through a gate being guarded by a bunch of Jaffa. You know how they like to put a dozen or so guys around the gate with those heavy cannons to blow the crap out of anyone coming though. The gate activates and they all go on alert and suddenly this huge metal monstrosity comes leaping out of the gate. They open fire but even their heaviest weapons just impact harmlessly on the armor. The tank crew opens fire with the coax machine gun and 50 caliber browning in the commander's turrent. A few smarter Jaffa duck behind cover and continue trying to fire at it from behind. The main cannon turns to face them and with a deafening roar fires at their position. As the tank rocks backwards from the recoil, dirt, fire, and bits of jaffa go flying from the impact of the shell. 30 seconds later, SG-1 walks through the gate to survey the carnage. Jaffa 0, Abrams 12. Total playing time, 30 seconds.

[Avatar28]

Didn't Carter detonate the missile off the UAV and it simply knocked the Kull warrior down? I'm guessing a direct hit may do something, but obviously the Kinetic (SP?) energy from the missile explosion didn't do diddly.

I don't think it was quite a direct hit, though, just really really close.

Lets look at some numbers and see what we can come up with. The M1A2 abrams fires a 10.85 pound dart at 5512 f/s. that comes out to an impact energy of just shy of 7 million joules.

From the pictures we have of the missle on the UCAV, I would estimate that it can't have more than a few lbs of explosives in the warhead so that wouldn't give it a very big explosion. The visuals of the explosion would tend to agree with that.

The 7 million joules figure gives an explosive equivalent of about 3.33 lbs. Not a lot, but keep in mind that that energy is all concentrated into a VERY small area at the front of the dart as it impacts. To give an idea, in Iraq a single M1A2 tank is supposed to have fired a single shot through TWO T-72 tanks that were next to each other with one of these rounds.

Tony, I doubt a glider would be able to do much to an Abrams or even a Bradley. Also we know that machinegun fire is more than capable of downing a glider and the glider would be attacking the top of the vehicle which is most likely going to have someone manning a gun. I doubt their cannons would penetrate the heavier armor anyways, though they might be able to damage some of the more sensitive equipment.

[helio9]

(incidentally, I wonder if the Kull warrior's suit would protect him from either a sabot or heat round fired by an Abrams tank).

Jacob stated that while the armour makes them very resilient (it survived the missile in death knell), it can't ignore physics, and the base self-destruct was able to take out one (or more, dont remember) of them.

Based on that, there's no way a Kull warrior would survive an M1s cannon. Those things are designed to take out other tanks, ei penetrate many inches of steel plating. The sheer amount of kinetic energy would have to be able to penetrate it. Think of the alternative, it would send the guy flying like 30 metres, and break his body. So yeah, with a direct hit, there are very few things an M1 can't take out.
The M830A1 HEAT round has a weight of 22.3 KG, and a muzzle velocity of over 1400m/s.
E = 1/2MV^2
E = 15610J.
E = 15.6KJ.

I don't see any body armour surviving that.

[Avatar28]

Jacob stated that while the armour makes them very resilient (it survived the missile in death knell), it can't ignore physics, and the base self-destruct was able to take out one (or more, dont remember) of them.

Based on that, there's no way a Kull warrior would survive an M1s cannon. Those things are designed to take out other tanks, ei penetrate many inches of steel plating. The sheer amount of kinetic energy would have to be able to penetrate it. Think of the alternative, it would send the guy flying like 30 metres, and break his body. So yeah, with a direct hit, there are very few things an M1 can't take out.
The M830A1 HEAT round has a weight of 22.3 KG, and a muzzle velocity of over 1400m/s.
E = 1/2MV^2
E = 15610J.
E = 15.6KJ.

I don't see any body armour surviving that.

Yeah, except with a heat round, the warhead is a shaped charge and on impact it detonates and sends a superheated jet of molten metal to burn through the armor. That's where most of the damage comes from with one of those. The KE damage of the sabot round is, as I noted, much greater. Your numbers seem a bit low, though anyways. No way does the sabot have 6 megajoules of ke and the heat only 15 kilojoules. In fact, I redid the math and came up with a figure of 21,854,000 joules or over 3 times the KE of the sabot (but on the other hand, it's not made of super-dense DU which is what enables the sabot to punch through by concentrating that force on a small point).

[helio9]

Yeah, except with a heat round, the warhead is a shaped charge and on impact it detonates and sends a superheated jet of molten metal to burn through the armor. That's where most of the damage comes from with one of those. The KE damage of the sabot round is, as I noted, much greater. Your numbers seem a bit low, though anyways. No way does the sabot have 6 megajoules of ke and the heat only 15 kilojoules. In fact, I redid the math and came up with a figure of 21,854,000 joules or over 3 times the KE of the sabot (but on the other hand, it's not made of super-dense DU which is what enables the sabot to punch through by concentrating that force on a small point).

Yeah I realized that just now, I forgot the square the velocity. My mistake.

[helio9]

Yeah, my bro graduated from Basic at Fort Knox this summer. They showed a bunch of pictures and some video clips and stuff during the ceremony, including some Abrams in action.

I just got this huge silly grin on my face as I pictured sending one of those bad boys through a gate being guarded by a bunch of Jaffa. You know how they like to put a dozen or so guys around the gate with those heavy cannons to blow the crap out of anyone coming though. The gate activates and they all go on alert and suddenly this huge metal monstrosity comes leaping out of the gate. They open fire but even their heaviest weapons just impact harmlessly on the armor. The tank crew opens fire with the coax machine gun and 50 caliber browning in the commander's turrent. A few smarter Jaffa duck behind cover and continue trying to fire at it from behind. The main cannon turns to face them and with a deafening roar fires at their position. As the tank rocks backwards from the recoil, dirt, fire, and bits of jaffa go flying from the impact of the shell. 30 seconds later, SG-1 walks through the gate to survey the carnage. Jaffa 0, Abrams 12. Total playing time, 30 seconds.

The thing is, if it's just Jaffa then a missile strike through the gate would do the same thing essentially. The Tank could play a part if they had to move far away from the gate, but as stated, a Bradley would likely be more practical.

[Avatar28]

Yeah, I know. That just wasn't what I was thinking at the time. Besides, you've got to admit that there's something about a huge freaking vehicle firing a big honkin gun at the guys you don't like.

Oh, speaking of the Abrams, found a couple of nice bits. One is that the heat round referenced above has a selectable fuse. This allows it to shoot down enemy helicopters and the like with it's main gun. May also work for enemy gliders/alkesh too, depending on tactics. If they just fly in a straight line to do a strafing run from a good distance at a relatively slow speed as we've seen them do on many occasions, they would be hurting. Second, it appears that there are a couple of nice new rounds available to them. One of them in particular would make for a VERY bad time if you're Jaffa (or any enemy soldier really).
See this link

Specificallly, XM1028, aka the "Room Broom."

The genesis of the XM1028 120mm Canister Tank Cartridge also comes from recent developments in Korea -- - with the removal of 105mm equipped M-60 and M-1 tanks, USFK has an urgent need to field a 120mm-based antipersonnel projectile to replace the 105mm M494E3 APERS round these tanks fired. In 1999, ARDEC responded with the introduction and testing of the 120mm XM1028 canister round, which fulfills the requirement for a dedicated antipersonnel round used against close-in (up to 500 meters) massed infantry armed with automatic weapons and hand-held anti tank munitions or devices.

Lacking an explosive component, the XM1028 is, in effect, a 120mm shotgun shell. But it's no ordinary shotgun shell, for sure: a typical OO buckshot round 2 ¾" long contains 9 pellets. But the XM1028 cartridge contains 1,100 tungsten steel balls that are expelled and immediately begin dispersing once they exit the cannon muzzle. Since the balls lack guidance, the pattern of dispersion increases with range, but the dense tungsten helps maintain kinetic energy.

Doing a little further research, I found this at another BB:

Assuming the energies remain the same for the tungsten dart projectile and the grapeshot mentioned afore, we can figure the muzzle velocity of the grapeshot fairly easily.

First, the tungsten projectile, at 10 pounds, weighs about 70,000 grains. With a muzzle velocity of 5,512, the muzzle energy in foot-pounds is :

5512 * 5512 * 70000
-------------------------- = 4,721,914 ft/lbs
450400 (a constant)

So, taking 4,721,914 * 450400, dividing the result by 169400 grains (total weight of projectiles), and taking the square root of the result gives a muzzle velocity in the neighborhood of 3,543 fps. This is, of course, just a ballpark figure as there are many other factors involved (like leakage around the 'wad' and 'shot cup'). Each projectile would weigh around 154 grains. At the muzzle, that would give an energy of about

3500 * 3500 * 154
---------------------- = 4188 ft/lbs.
450400

For comparison, here is a typical .30'06
Springfield load:

2900 * 2900 * 150
--------------------- = 2800 ft/lbs.
450400

Just thought you would like to know.

And knowing is half the battle...

In short, this sucker fires 1100 tungsten balls EACH with about one and half times the kinetic energy of a 30-06 round. Imagine the results from the first jaffa mass charge against an Abrams armed with those? From Jaffa to red mist in well under a second. For that matter, I doubt the wraith would survive to well either, they just don't do the whole mass charge thing.