The Lantean Drone Weapon Discussion Thread

[SmallTimePerson]

It was the ZPM that was powering it, not the gate. If that's the case, then the SGC can use 4/5 MKII's to connect to Atlantis, then let the Atlantis gate take up all the power. Not going to happen is it! You say a MKII only has enough power to start he chair up, yet we know that it's 6 times more powerful than a MKI. Yet if you do the math & see that 4 MKI's can establish a wormhole, but say a MKII doesn't have enough. Despite the fact that it's more powerul that all the MKI's put together that were originally used.

Wraith_Hunter, YOU ARE WRONG. in letters from pegasus Mckay didn't just use Mk1s he used a PJ as well

(The meeting breaks up. Rodney speaks to Elizabeth as she walks past him.)
McKAY: As soon as Zelenka and I can get, uh, Jumper Four's engines tied into the grid, we should be able to do a low-powered dry run.

and atlantis used 5 mk1 generators, not 4

Five naquadah generators power Atlantis, one responsible for a discrete section of the city.

and mkIIs are no where near stable enough to be relied upon, whilst

Spoiler:

atlantis was under siege the mkII couldnt power up the chair to allow shep to rc the PJ into the hive

We are yet to know how strong the PJ poweer supply is, in relation to naq generators

[SmallTimePerson]

If the drones from Earth weren't used as missiles, where did they go after destroying Anubis' fleet? Did they return to the Ancient outpost? Did they self-destruct?

drones become inactive once the user gets off the chair or the chair deactivates for some reason

[NakedJehutyV2]

Spoiler:

In Condemned, we see a drone hit a Wraith Cruiser and the cruiser was helpless, didn't try to stop the drone, granted that it was from close range.

yeah that scene was GOLD SELDINI GOLD!!!

anyway it was great

[NakedJehutyV2]

cool. forgot bout that.

[Schrodinger82]

As for is there any Drones left. There is nothing said that they still have any left at all. Don't forget in 'New Order'. the Goa'uld were sending a ship to test the new ancient weapon. Weir & Daniel had to bluff them that it would be destroyed & even tried to talk them out of it. Tell me this, if they still had Drones & a ZPM, then what's the harm in firing a few dozen more & taken out a far less technologically advanced ship. This will have shown the Goa'uld first hand not to try & ever mess with them again. So I don't think they have any left, if they do, then they probably won't even be into double figures.

Yes, because they don't have a power source. This has been made rather clear on so many occasions throughout the show that it seriously hurts your credibility to say otherwise.

O'NEILL: This poison – does it kill Jaffa as well as Goa’uld?
DAVIS (nodding reluctantly): That’s right.
O'NEILL: How many casualties are we talking about?
(Davis opens his mouth but Reynolds answers.)
REYNOLDS: Thousands. Tens of thousands.
O'NEILL: So it’s not really a rescue plan – it’s a full-scale attack.
REYNOLDS: That would most certainly provoke a reaction – possibly another attack on Earth.
DAVIS: But considering the fact that we now have a ZPM to power the Ancient defences, I don’t think ...

So Davis thinks that Earth can be defended after a full scale attack because of < 10 drones? Alternative universe Mitchell are going to cross over and leave this Atlantis and possibly Earth helpless against the Wraith for the sake of < 10 drones? I don't think so.

So 4 MKI's can dial it for 1.3 seconds, a MKII generator is 6 times more powerful. Yet that can't make it for at least 1 second. Hate to tell you this buddy, but your math royally sucks big time.

The math is fine.

SHEPPARD: You’re suggesting this now?

McKAY: Because it probably won’t work, and there’s a very good chance it could overload our naqahdah generators in the process.

Obiously, the 4 MKI weren't running under normal conditions. If they were, then McKay wouldn't have been worried about potentially overloading them. Not to mention the fact that it was at an output level that couldn't be sustained for longer than 1.3 seconds -- and even at a mere 1.3 seconds, you still risked permanent damage.

So yes, 4 MKI generators running at far abnormal conditions > 6 normal MKI generators running under normal conditions. Just how much more? We don't know. But here's a clip from Home:

McKAY: Forget Prometheus. I have figured out how to establish a wormhole connection back to the Pegasus galaxy, but I’m gonna need the ZedPM.
HAMMOND: The ZeePM’s been depleted – it’s of no use.
McKAY: Actually, that’s not entirely true. See, the last time we used it, the ZedPM had to establish and maintain a wormhole back to Atlantis. This time round, all we need for it to do is to have enough energy to establish the briefest of connections – by my calculations, approximately, what, three point five microseconds.
HAMMOND: That hardly seems like enough time to establish a connection ...
McKAY (interrupting): General, when we first set foot on M5S-224, before the wormhole shut down, I picked up fluctuations in the energy field. Now, at the time, I just assumed that that was an effect of the Gate’s residual energy signature. Now, having given it some thought, I realised that can’t account for such sizeable variances, which leaves only one possible explanation. The Gate must have been energised on our arrival, meaning it doesn’t just draw power on outgoing wormholes, but on incoming wormholes as well. All we have to do is make a connection. Three point five microseconds, that’s the minimum amount of time it requires to confirm a lock before the Gate automatically kicks in, drawing power from the atmosphere to maintain the wormhole.
HAMMOND: You’ll forgive me, Doctor – this all seems a little far-fetched.
McKAY: Well, think of it like making a long-distance call to someone you know is gonna accept the charges. All you have to do is dial.
HAMMOND: I’m sorry, Doctor.
McKAY: Well, you’re not gonna lose anything by letting me try, are you? All I wanna do is run a couple of tests.
(Hammond stops and gives it some thought.)
HAMMOND: Alright. I’ll have the ZeePM delivered to the lab. (He walks away.)
McKAY: Thank you. (He claps his hands together and walks off in the opposite direction.)

So as of "Home," the only device that Rodney knew of that could establish a stable connection for even 3.5 microseconds was a dead ZPM. None of Earth's other resources would do -- not even one of the far more powerful Naquadriah reactors that they had already developed.

[Schrodinger82]

It was the ZPM that was powering it, not the gate. If that's the case, then the SGC can use 4/5 MKII's to connect to Atlantis, then let the Atlantis gate take up all the power. Not going to happen is it!

Why bother? The Atlantis team makes scheduled data transmissions to SG1, SG1 could just as easily send a scheduled data transmission back. The only time when SG1 would have a reason to make an unsceduled transmission would be in "critical mass." Of course, that's about as reasonable as calling someone over the phone to tell them not to use their phone. Don't do it.

Yet if you do the math & see that 4 MKI's can establish a wormhole, but say a MKII doesn't have enough. Despite the fact that it's more powerul that all the MKI's put together that were originally used. Then if you don't see the problem here, then I strongly suggest you go back to counting school kid! So all the SGC had to do was hook up a couple of the MKII genny's then they could connect at will whenever they choose.

Sure -- and they'll risk overloading them all in the process. Which could very well trigger a nuclear explosion, but hey, let's try it anyway.

[Wraith_Hunter]

Wraith_Hunter, YOU ARE WRONG. in letters from pegasus Mckay didn't just use Mk1s he used a PJ as well

and atlantis used 5 mk1 generators, not 4


and mkIIs are no where near stable enough to be relied upon, whilst

Spoiler:

atlantis was under siege the mkII couldnt power up the chair to allow shep to rc the PJ into the hive

We are yet to know how strong the PJ poweer supply is, in relation to naq generators

Check my earlier posts & you will see that I also said they used a jumper. Hence I ain't wrong. If you remember correctly, the SGC still has the time jumper. So I ain't wrong, you are for assuming things before actually reading them.

Not four. Really, didn't they have 5 originally. Then they destroyed one. Which I think you should take that trip that I suggested earlier back to counting school immediately. Because 5 minus 1 = Four (4). So your wrong again! Does the big boy need to show you a picture & count to four!

How do you know that it's nowhere near stable enough to be relied upon. This hasn't been said anywhere in the show, so you are just trying to pass your speculations off as fact.

In fact in the episode. McKay says this:

McKAY (from the Chair Room): We must have exhausted the Mark Two's energy output. It's dead

So your wrong again. THREE in a row, let's keep going as you seem to be on a roll now.


Onto the next brainiac now!!!!!

Yes, because they don't have a power source. This has been made rather clear on so many occasions throughout the show that it seriously hurts your credibility to say otherwise.

Hurts my credibility, you must be the thickest m##on that's visited these boards in a long time. If you actually read what I said, you will see I was referring to using it in 'New Order', which was BEFORE they had even left for Atlantis & used all that power up. Goodness, how thick are you! No wait, theres an even better bit coming up next.

See all those quotes you pasted in when they refer to the ZPM. They thought they had a new one, however since you're assing about with the transcripts, then I strongly suggest you read a little further on. Because if you had done, then you would have known that, it was tainted by Camulus & Ba'al. So they didn't have one. So they couldn't put it into the outpost, just like Atlantis before 'The Siege III', to find out exactly what's left.

If they did have them, then they wouldn't have worried about the SINGLE Goa'uld ship that was on it's way. Then get DJ to try & talk them out of it. We saw O'Neill take one out with Two Drones later on. So why all the panic. Huh! You only panic, if you don't have.

Onto your next bit, who's to say they weren't running under normal conditions. He was worried because since the expedition began, they were being used individually. This was the first time, they were all being rigged up together. That's why he brought it up. Simply because he had never done it before & didn't know what the result of doing so would be.

As for 'Home'. why are you evewn referencing this, they weren't actually in the SGC. They were led on by the energy beings who didn't know everything. They simply read the minds while the team was unconscious. If they did then, they wouldn't have brough up Shep's dead buddies. See what I'm getting at here! If you don't then don't worry about it. You never will then.

Why bother? The Atlantis team makes scheduled data transmissions to SG1, SG1 could just as easily send a scheduled data transmission back. The only time when SG1 would have a reason to make an unsceduled transmission would be in "critical mass." Of course, that's about as reasonable as calling someone over the phone to tell them not to use their phone. Don't do it.

Why bother what? The SGC couldn't send anything back because they don't have enough power to do this on a regular basis. If they even tried it, then it wouldn't be very cost effective would it! They could burn out all those MKii's as well as the PJ itself on the first go. So too much expnses to send a meaningless transmission, don't ya think! 'Why bring in 'Critical Mass', you say about using it, when it was explained in the episode why they couldn't even attempt it. Duh!

Sure -- and they'll risk overloading them all in the process. Which could very well trigger a nuclear explosion, but hey, let's try it anyway.

You know this how? The Atlantis team didn't have a problem trying it, considering they hadn't even done an evac before making the attempt. Which they did do later on when they knew the Wraith were about to get there.

So obviously if the genny's go which there is no reason as to why they would. McKay only cautioned against it because he was unsure. Whereas Carter & other scientists like her would know a lot more about the things as they built them than anyone else. So since Atlantis didn't see the need to evac prior to doing this, then it's not going to cause a nuclear explosion. If they were concerned about them going, then they obviously were not going to worry too much about the damage because nobody felt the need to leave at all. So yes they could try it & should to see if it works or not.


Man, why do all the wackjobs always jump on my posts. Lately that's all that seems to be happening here. I end up actually having to waste time, dumbing down a few levels to try & make them understand the simple things!

[Schrodinger82]

Hurts my credibility, you must be the thickest m##on that's visited these boards in a long time. If you actually read what I said, you will see I was referring to using it in 'New Order', which was BEFORE they had even left for Atlantis & used all that power up.

Oh yes, New Order. Hmm...

AMATERASU: This Ancient weapon: such an advanced piece of technology. The power requirements must be enormous. Even simple maintenance must be extremely difficult, given your limited capabilities.
WEIR (sitting down again): We manage.
AMATERASU (insincerely): Of course, we believe you. (She looks at Camulus.) But I wonder what Ba’al would think if he were to receive intelligence that the weapon was temporarily out of commission.
CAMULUS (to his fellow System Lords): Hmm. He would come to this world to claim it for himself. The Tauri would be forced to destroy him.
AMATERASU: And we would have to give them nothing.

And...

WEIR: I know. (She sighs.) We may have to revive Colonel O’Neill.
DANIEL (clearing his throat): What?!
WEIR: If they suspect we’re bluffing, they’ll come here and take the weapon for themselves. If they don’t, they’ll trick Ba’al into coming. Either way we may actually have to use that weapon again, to defend this planet.
DANIEL: We don’t even know if there’s enough power] to fire another shot.
WEIR: I know.

And...

WEIR: They could still try and draw Ba’al here, let him figure it out for them.
DANIEL: Yeah, that’s dangerous for them, because if we can’t power the weapon ...
WEIR: ... which we can’t ...
DANIEL: ... Ba’al would end up with both Earth *and* the Ancient outpost in his possession.

From Zero Hour:

BRIEFING ROOM. Reynolds opens a case he brought back. Inside is a power device identical to the one that Jack brought back from Proklarush Taonas to work the Ancient chair in Antarctica.
REYNOLDS: It wasn’t plugged in.
GILMOR: What is it?
O'NEILL: It’s a ZPM.
GILMOR: What’s that?
LEE (coming into the room): A Zero Point Module. Um, it’s an Ancient power source that draws its energy from subspace.
REYNOLDS: It’s the only thing powerful enough to activate the Ancient defence weapons SG-1 found down in Antarctica. The one we have is pretty much dead ...
(Lee has been running a gadget over the ZPM. The gadget starts beeping.)

And...

REYNOLDS: That would most certainly provoke a reaction – possibly another attack on Earth.
DAVIS: But considering the fact that we now have a ZPM to power the Ancient defences, I don’t think ...

Moebius:

DANIEL: Jack, think about it: with a fully functional ZPM we could power Earth’s defences and open up a wormhole to the Pegasus galaxy.

Not to mention the fact that Alternative-Universe Mitchell thought that coming to our Earth to steal our ZPM would be the best shot of fighting off the Ori. Which would be sort of hard to believe if there were < 10.

But go on. Feel free to keep telling us about how the reason they can't use the outpost is due to a lack of drones, rather than a lack of power. If it helps to call us thich-headed for saying otherwise, then by all means, troll away. It just makes you look more and more credible with every post you make.

Goodness, how thick are you! No wait, theres an even better bit coming up next.

See all those quotes you pasted in when they refer to the ZPM. They thought they had a new one, however since you're assing about with the transcripts, then I strongly suggest you read a little further on. Because if you had done, then you would have known that, it was tainted by Camulus & Ba'al.

So what, the fact that the ZPM is tainted is going to magically change the number of drones they have in storage? Man, Camulus must sure be crafty.

Because my point was that the reason they couldn't power the defensive chair in Antartica was due to a lack of power, rather than a lack of drones (as you claimed.). How does the fact that they can't use their chair anymore because they no longer have a viable power supply in anyway change that point?

Oh, that's right, it doesn't. In fact, it proves my point entirely. But thank you for pointing out that piece of information.

So they couldn't put it into the outpost, just like Atlantis before 'The Siege III', to find out exactly what's left.

From "Rising":

MCKAY: The 0 point module General. The ancient power source you recovered from quator kanas and is now powering the outpost's defenses.

In other words, they already had a chance to check the number of drones available, before the ZPM was drained, and before the Zero Hour took place.

If they did have them, then they wouldn't have worried about the SINGLE Goa'uld ship that was on it's way.

New Order begs to differ:

WEIR: I know. (She sighs.) We may have to revive Colonel O’Neill.
DANIEL (clearing his throat): What?!
WEIR: If they suspect we’re bluffing, they’ll come here and take the weapon for themselves. If they don’t, they’ll trick Ba’al into coming. Either way we may actually have to use that weapon again, to defend this planet.
DANIEL: We don’t even know if there’s enough power] to fire another shot.
WEIR: I know.

So you have two reasons, the fact that Jack isn't awake to operate it, and the fact that they don't have power. But feel free to continue attributing it to a lack of drones.

We saw O'Neill take one out with Two Drones later on. So why all the panic. Huh! You only panic, if you don't have.

Well, aside from the reasons already listed above (e.g., no one to operate it, insufficient power), there's also the fact that the episode you're referring to takes place several months after the fact, at which point they've had several weeks to analyze the data at the outpost with a fully conscious Jack at the helm. Not to mention that the fact that this particular feat took everyone by SURPRISE, which meant that no one at the time anticipated it, much less someone several months earlier with far less information.

As for 'Home'. why are you evewn referencing this, they weren't actually in the SGC. They were led on by the energy beings who didn't know everything. They simply read the minds while the team was unconscious.

Which has absolutely no bearing on Rodney's calculations and his knoweledge of viable alternatives. The fact that the aliens had created a fantasy world for him isn't going to magically make him forget that he can use a much more powerful naquadriah reactor or some other viable alternative instead. In fact, that's the entire reason why Rodney was able to realize that he was in an illusion -- because the empirical data didn't match what he knew to be true.

Why bother what? The SGC couldn't send anything back because they don't have enough power to do this on a regular basis.

Wormholes are bi-directional when it comes to radio transmission, which is why the MALPs can still send back information back to Earth. If the wormhole has already been opened from Atlantis to Earth, then Earth can easily send radio transmissions from Earth to Atlantis.

You know this how? The Atlantis team didn't have a problem trying it,
considering they hadn't even done an evac before making the attempt. Which they did do later on when they knew the Wraith were about to get there.

Really, and you know for a fact that they didn't evac... how? We never saw what was going on on the Atlantis end. ALl we saw was the information being transmitted, and the information being recieved.

I end up actually having to waste time, dumbing down a few levels

Well, at least you're right on that part.

[BuuZeroC]

I was just thinking there is a chair on that planet, there was the ZPM SG1 took, what if there are more drone weapons there?

Yes, the dome colapsed but they can scan and beam them up with the Prometheus. would definitly be an asset agianst the ori.

on a side note who else thinks they should bring back the milkyway puddlejumper(without time travel device)

[FallenAngelII]

Well, if the drones are sturdy enough to withstand lava >_>'.

[Schrodinger82]

Oh yeah...

Hurts my credibility, you must be the thickest m##on that's visited these boards in a long time. If you actually read what I said, you will see I was referring to using it in 'New Order', which was BEFORE they had even left for Atlantis & used all that power up. Goodness, how thick are you! No wait, theres an even better bit coming up next.

See all those quotes you pasted in when they refer to the ZPM. They thought they had a new one, however since you're assing about with the transcripts, then I strongly suggest you read a little further on. Because if you had done, then you would have known that, it was tainted by Camulus & Ba'al. So they didn't have one. So they couldn't put it into the outpost, just like Atlantis before 'The Siege III', to find out exactly what's left.

If they did have them, then they wouldn't have worried about the SINGLE Goa'uld ship that was on it's way. Then get DJ to try & talk them out of it. We saw O'Neill take one out with Two Drones later on. So why all the panic. Huh! You only panic, if you don't have.

So on one hand, you're telling us that power requirements aren't an issue, because the ZPM hadn't been used up by the time we're in New Order.

On the other hand, you're telling us that it's impossible for the SG1 to know how many drones they have on Earth, specifically because they don't have power.

On another hand, you're telling us that even though they you already claimed that they don't know how many drones they have left as of "Zero Hour", they somehow manage to know that they don't even have a single one as of "New Order" -- despite the fact that "Zero Hour" takes place several weeks afterwards. And despite the fact that they were fully expecting for there to be thousands of drones by the time that "The Siege" takes place, which takes place several months after the fact, and which point they would have already had an active ZPM from Ancient Egypt to double check on the number of drones from Earth.

Are we all on the same page by now?

Occam's razor. Make no more assumptions than needed. In this case, the fact that the the only hindrence to using the ancient outpost on Earth is simply due to a lack of power, rather than a lack of drones. This because a) the lack of power is sufficient to explains every phenomenom you have mentioned and has been directly referred to in the shows, b) the fact that that there is absolutely nothing on the show directly suggests that Earth is lacking in drones, and c) the notion that they do would contradict what we have already seen, and thus would require additional assumptions in order to explain the contradiction.

It's not that you're a jerk, Wraith_Hunter, or that you're an idiot. It's that you're both things, simultaneously. You make it painfully obvious that not only are you completely unable to form a coherent thought, but you also choose to be extremely condescending to anyone who chooses to point this out.

[AscendedWarrior]

Okay a few things!

We know the chair controls the Drones, so let's take 'The Tower', 'Rising' etc as examples, the moment the chair goes off, the Drones cease to operate or continue to seek the targets that they were fired upon.

So if you watch 'The Lost City II', right after the ships have been destroyed, O'Neill slumps over & the chair goes off. Any Drones that were left, therefore will have gone off-line. So since they were no longer getting instructions, they will have either drifted out into space or fell back to Earth & then burned up in the atmosphere on re-entry.

In both tower and rising the drones went ofline beacause the power was depleted(in rising the shut the power off).

OK, hardly no drones were destroyed attacking the ships, and Jack would want to keep some ammo for other times, so he could have ordered the drones back and then got out of the chair.

[chemicalNova]

So since they were no longer getting instructions, they will have either drifted out into space or fell back to Earth & then burned up in the atmosphere on re-entry.

That's an interesting theory, given that the drones seemed to exit the atmosphere intact. Do they have a shield around them while activated? It doesn't look like it. They just have the glowing head. You can see what I mean by watching 'Rising'.

chem

[chemicalNova]

If you remember correctly, the SGC still has the time jumper. So I ain't wrong, you are for assuming things before actually reading them.

I'm not so sure they have the time jumper. They get it in 'It's good to be King', they use it to go back in time in Moebius Part 1, they recover it at present time in Moebius Part 2, but towards the end - when everything is back to normal - they make no mention of ever having the time machine. All they have is the ZPM.

chem

[chemicalNova]

It was the ZPM that was powering it, not the gate.

Sorry I have multiple posts, things keep catching my eye as I go to click back.

He's at least correct here. We know from the Black-Hole incident that the gate draws its energy from the dialing gate. If it were the other way around, cutting main power to the Stargate (like they attempted) would have cut off the connection.

chem