The Lantean Drone Weapon Discussion Thread

[SmallTimePerson]

I haven't seen SG-1 much, but i read the episode summary here and it said that the system lords thought that the SGC was bluffing, i could have misread it of course...

[Wraith_Hunter]

Okay a few things!

We know the chair controls the Drones, so let's take 'The Tower', 'Rising' etc as examples, the moment the chair goes off, the Drones cease to operate or continue to seek the targets that they were fired upon.

So if you watch 'The Lost City II', right after the ships have been destroyed, O'Neill slumps over & the chair goes off. Any Drones that were left, therefore will have gone off-line. So since they were no longer getting instructions, they will have either drifted out into space or fell back to Earth & then burned up in the atmosphere on re-entry.

Even if by some miracle that they survived the burning up, since they were no longer being controlled & so at the spped that they would be coming back down from, they would be like micro meteors. So unles they had their own little parachutes to guide them down softly, anything they hit would be producing craters. Which in turn means that there wouldn't be anything left to re-use.

As for is there any Drones left. There is nothing said that they still have any left at all. Don't forget in 'New Order'. the Goa'uld were sending a ship to test the new ancient weapon. Weir & Daniel had to bluff them that it would be destroyed & even tried to talk them out of it. Tell me this, if they still had Drones & a ZPM, then what's the harm in firing a few dozen more & taken out a far less technologically advanced ship. This will have shown the Goa'uld first hand not to try & ever mess with them again. So I don't think they have any left, if they do, then they probably won't even be into double figures.

They wanted to keep the ZPM, simply because it was a ZPM & so rare & valuable for them to waste. The only reason that it was given up, was because there was a good chance that they could find ancients that could show them how to build more, or at the very least more lying around the ancient city. As well as Drones & all the other advanced tech that it would have.

[NakedJehutyV2]

the zpm was wasted after lost city.

however they could use a mark 2 naq generator to power it for a short while if they need to. however it's unknown if there's still any drones left

[SmallTimePerson]

the zpm was wasted after lost city.

however they could use a mark 2 naq generator to power it for a short while if they need to. however it's unknown if there's still any drones left

the mark 2 isnt that reliable in siege 2 we saw that it refused to power up so shep could RC the PJ to blow up the hive ship

[Jarnin]

As for is there any Drones left. There is nothing said that they still have any left at all. Don't forget in 'New Order'. the Goa'uld were sending a ship to test the new ancient weapon. Weir & Daniel had to bluff them that it would be destroyed & even tried to talk them out of it. Tell me this, if they still had Drones & a ZPM, then what's the harm in firing a few dozen more & taken out a far less technologically advanced ship. This will have shown the Goa'uld first hand not to try & ever mess with them again. So I don't think they have any left, if they do, then they probably won't even be into double figures.

I think the "problem" they were having was that O'Neill was in stasis. As long as he was frozen, they didn't have anyone familiar with the operation of the chair and drones to take over. Not to mention the ZPM was practically dead after The Lost City II, with only enough juice to connect to Atlantis once before it died.

I think it's kind of silly for TPTB to make us think that Jack fired all of the drones in the outpost, leaving nothing left. I mean, the guy is special forces; he should know about stuff like conserving ammunition, specially if it's rare.

[SmallTimePerson]

and the ancients couldn't possibly use all the drones (which protected the outpost) in one siege, otherwise they wouldn't last very long. O'niel would probably know how many drones to fire, or at least not to use them all.

And we have at least one drone left, the one that just about hit O'niel's helicopter

[Wraith_Hunter]

I think the "problem" they were having was that O'Neill was in stasis. As long as he was frozen, they didn't have anyone familiar with the operation of the chair and drones to take over. Not to mention the ZPM was practically dead after The Lost City II, with only enough juice to connect to Atlantis once before it died.

I think it's kind of silly for TPTB to make us think that Jack fired all of the drones in the outpost, leaving nothing left. I mean, the guy is special forces; he should know about stuff like conserving ammunition, specially if it's rare.

Only enough juice to dial up an 8 gate address into another galaxy. Pretty, pretty sure that would have allowed the firing of a few Drones. A MKII could fire a few dozen before it went down. So the ZPM would have still had enough considering how long it kept the gate open to fire at most a couple thou more Drones. The MKII is 6 time more powerful than that of a MKI is, 4 were used to dial Earth with the help of a PJ allowing connection for 1.3 secs. Which means that 1 realstically should be enough to hold it open for at least a sec or so. The ZPM held the gate open to Pegasus for a couple of mins max before they shut it down. They didn't watch it die, they closed it down themselves. So if something that could power the gate for around a sec or so can fire dozens & dozens of drones. Then the ZPM could have fired many, many more. At least enough to easily take care of a regular Al'Kesh. Heck the TJ took one out with only 2 drones.

From Earth destroying Anubis' fleet, to the Goa'uld threat. There was a time period of around a few weeks or so. Plenty enough time for them to at least give anyone with nthe gene a shot. After all if you have a weapon, then you're at least going to give it a fire to the best of your abilities. Considering they had tons of people with the gene. Rather than just sit back & pray that the Asgard come & save you.

The other point in this, was that O'Neill after having fired them, wasn't worried about conserving ammo. He didn't have time to go through the stocklist & see how many were left. He just new that there was around 30 or more ships out there & there was only one way to take them out. It didn't matter to conserve them, because it was the whole fleet & if that could be taken out then at least it gives them more time to form another plan. At best it scares the crap out of any other potential would be attackers.

So it's not silly that he is special forces or not, Shep fired 3 Drones in the 'Rising' pilot to take out a Dart, when all it would have taken was one. He was elite military, but nobody said that was silly or stupid. The point here is that there was many invading ships already in orbit of your planet. They had already been active in their attack. You get there & see all this, then are sitting around for a couple of mins while it cuts through the ice. Once you get there, alien soldiers that you've never seen before are firing all around you. While their ships are only a few hundred feet above you. Trust me, conserving ammo isn't your biggest concern. Getting rid of the enemy threat is.#

So the silly thing isn't what's been suggested. It's that during all this going on around him, not forgetting the ancient DB fighting for survival within a foreign host. Then his primary worry when the whole planet's future is is severe dire straits is that he's worried about what he fired. Simply thousadns & thousands were fired from an outpost. Whereas in Atlantis, they only had a couple of dozen left. So that should at least show you something. The outpost was never used in all that time while buried under the ice. It was full, it had fired thousands of them in one go, enough to severely almost deplete a brand new & fully working ZPM. Surely it should scream about the severe lack of drones that are remaining, if any at all.

and the ancients couldn't possibly use all the drones (which protected the outpost) in one siege, otherwise they wouldn't last very long. O'niel would probably know how many drones to fire, or at least not to use them all.

And we have at least one drone left, the one that just about hit O'niel's helicopter

Why wouldn't they last very long? They knew how to create more. So as long as they were still alive, then they had a basic unlimited supply of the things. When your under fire & the consequences of saving an entire planet & race of epeople in a matter of a few secs. Your primary concern isn't to worry about ammo. Here is an example, you are on a night out. A gang of guys surround you, one hits you. You have two choices, you can either run or fight. However if your trapped in an alley or corner then you have only 1 choice. So if they are coming at you quickly & straight after each other, probably even a couple/few at the exact same time. You don't worry about trying to conserve your ewnergy, your primary reactions are to defend yourself. You don't want to stand around conserving punches while your opponents are hitting you. You will use up everything you have in those moments to ensure that you try & make it out of that situation in one piece or at the very least give it your best shot in trying.

As for the single drone, it all depends on if they can be reused or not. If they can, then I would say that it would probably be in good enough condition to be refired again. If that is the case, then those from 'The Tower' could also be scopped up & used again as well.

However, we know when the chair is offline or no longer being operated then the drones shut down. So considering that most would have re-entered the Earth's atmosphere from orbit, then those that weren't burned up, which I think that they all would have easily been burned up instantly, then after they hit ground from those speeds & height. They weren't going to be anything left to be reused...period!

It is possible that if there was any that was directed outwards due to the blast of Anubis' ships, then they could have sent out Prometheus & opened it's cargo bay doors up to in effect scoop up all the loose ones into the bay, 302's could even be rigged with nets to scoop them up, the same way as fishermen do with their trawlers. Did they do it, possibly. Does anybody know for sure, no! If they didn't then there is probably a handful left in the outpost at most.

[Jarnin]

Only enough juice to dial up an 8 gate address into another galaxy. Pretty, pretty sure that would have allowed the firing of a few Drones. A MKII could fire a few dozen before it went down.

The Mark II wasn't available at the time of New Order I, which is what I was referring to.

So the ZPM would have still had enough considering how long it kept the gate open to fire at most a couple thou more Drones. The MKII is 6 time more powerful than that of a MKI is, 4 were used to dial Earth with the help of a PJ allowing connection for 1.3 secs.

Uh, it was 1.3 microseconds, not seconds. That's 1.3 millionths of a second.

Which means that 1 realstically should be enough to hold it open for at least a sec or so.

No.

The ZPM held the gate open to Pegasus for a couple of mins max before they shut it down. They didn't watch it die, they closed it down themselves. So if something that could power the gate for around a sec or so can fire dozens & dozens of drones.

Conjecture + Speculation = no evidence.

Then the ZPM could have fired many, many more. At least enough to easily take care of a regular Al'Kesh. Heck the TJ took one out with only 2 drones.

As if the CGI artists they have doing the special effects have any background in science and physics... You can't base what you see as any kind of reliable measuring stick to what is discussed in the series. Sometimes they get things right. Most of the time they get it wrong, because they're artists, not physicists.

From Earth destroying Anubis' fleet, to the Goa'uld threat. There was a time period of around a few weeks or so. Plenty enough time for them to at least give anyone with nthe gene a shot.

Which also didn't exist at the time of New Order I, which is what we were discussing. The gene treatment didn't happen until after the Atlantis team was in Pegasus.

After all if you have a weapon, then you're at least going to give it a fire to the best of your abilities. Considering they had tons of people with the gene. Rather than just sit back & pray that the Asgard come & save you.

They didn't even know about the gene at this point in time. As far as the other members of the team knew, it was O'Neill's ancient knowledge, and not the ATA gene he possessed, was what controlled the chair and drones.

So it's not silly that he is special forces or not, Shep fired 3 Drones in the 'Rising' pilot to take out a Dart, when all it would have taken was one. He was elite military, but nobody said that was silly or stupid.

I see we're entering strawman territory: I say one thing, and then you use totally unrelated events to discredit what I wrote.

Here's a thought: Maybe the writers and special effects guys are being totally inconsistent with what they put in the show in regards to drones.

In one episode, they can fly through solid objects without being slowed. In other episodes they explode on impact. it's an inconsistancy that needs some explanation.

[Wraith_Hunter]

The Mark II wasn't available at the time of New Order I, which is what I was referring to.

May I ask how you know this! In order to refer to something, then you actually need to put it in your post. If that weren't already obvious enough, mind you.

Uh, it was 1.3 microseconds, not seconds. That's 1.3 millionths of a second

.

Uh, no it was 1.3 SECONDS. As in real seconds, not micro anything. If you try to crrect someone, please get it right!

Direct Quote from the episode:

This Episode: Transcript | Images

McKAY: It's really a long shot, but I think it's, uh, most likely worth the effort. Of course, it will mostly be my effort, so ...

SHEPPARD: What is it?

McKAY: I think we can send a message back to Earth through the Stargate.

BECKETT: Excuse me?!

WEIR: I thought we didn't have enough power.

McKAY: Not to send a person, no. We'd never be able to maintain the wormhole long enough. But I think if we were able to tie together all of our power-generating capabilities, we might -- and I emphasise might -- be able to establish a wormhole long enough to send a message.

SHEPPARD: How much time are we talking about?

McKAY: Well, approximately, uh, one point three seconds, give or take.

BECKETT: That's not much time.

FORD: Time enough to say, "S.O.S."!

McKAY: Don't be so analogue! One point three seconds is more than enough time to send a message if it's in the form of a high compression data burst. Now, I helped refine the encoding for the US Air Force a few years back. Colonel Carter should be able to, uh, decipher it on the other side.

No.

So 4 MKI's can dial it for 1.3 seconds, a MKII generator is 6 times more powerful. Yet that can't make it for at least 1 second. Hate to tell you this buddy, but your math royally sucks big time.

Conjecture + Speculation = no evidence.

Really! If you watch it, you see them going through very slowly, then the equipments comes through shortly after. This takes a couple of minutes to complete at least. Then Weir picks up a radio (the gate has been open for minutes now) & says to close the gate down. A bottle of champagne rolls through & it closes down. So that isn't evidence is it? I hate to breka it to you but you obviously haven't even watched the pilot episode, otherwise you wouldn't have made such a ridiculos statement.

[B]Direct Quote from 'Rising I':AGAIN

SUMNER (to Weir): That's everyone.

(Weir turns towards the Gate and lifts her radio to her mouth.)

WEIR: General O'Neill. Atlantis base offers greetings from the Pegasus Galaxy. You may cut power to the Gate.

(A champagne bottle rolls out of the Gate and across the floor. The Gate shuts down. Weir picks up the bottle and looks at the label attached around its neck. It reads: “Bon Voyage! General Jack O'Neill”. Weir smiles up at Sheppard and McKay on the balcony, showing them the bottle. Sheppard nods down to her.)

As if the CGI artists they have doing the special effects have any background in science and physics... You can't base what you see as any kind of reliable measuring stick to what is discussed in the series. Sometimes they get things right. Most of the time they get it wrong, because they're artists, not physicists.

Who said any anything about Physics. My 3 year old newphew could figure this out! If a ZPM has enough power to dial up ANOTHER galaxy &hold the connection for a few minutes,. Before bing voluntarily closed down. Then if a MKII has enough power to fire a few dozen drones (from 'The Siege II') then you even dare to say that the ZPM despite having the power for Pegasus later on couldn't fire any more drones from the outpost. Dream on Einstein!

Which also didn't exist at the time of New Order I, which is what we were discussing. The gene treatment didn't happen until after the Atlantis team was in Pegasus.

It didn't happen till they were in Pegasus did it!

Then what was this that was said in 'Rising'.

BECKETT: I could sit in that chair all bloody day long and nothing would happen. It's a waste of time. Excuse me, Doctor Weir. (He walks away.)

McKAY (to Weir): He's not even trying.

WEIR: But he's the one who discovered the gene this technology responds to.

McKAY: Yeah, well, he said he wished he never had it.

WEIR: Really?

McKAY (incredulously): I know, can you believe that?

(Weir smiles.)

WEIR: We could always test you a third time, Rodney.

McKAY (annoyed): That's very funny.

WEIR: We've only found a handful of people who are genetically compatible with the Ancient technology and despite your heroic efforts to interface ours with theirs, we need every one of them to sit in this Chair, including Doctor Beckett.

They didn't even know about the gene at this point in time. As far as the other members of the team knew, it was O'Neill's ancient knowledge, and not the ATA gene he possessed, was what controlled the chair and drones.

Again same as above, they were experimenting & researching on the outpost. The original time period between O'Neill getting frozen & 'New Order' was a minimum of weeks, it could potentially be months even. In 'New Order' she is packing up her stuff, then in 'Rising' she says she has been picking the team for months. However to prove that it is at least weeks. They have been already talking to the Goa'uld before 'New Order'. Sam & Teal'c use the modified Cargo ship that takes 10 days to get to the Asgard galaxy. Just thought I'd add that in, wouldn't want to show you up again.

I see we're entering strawman territory: I say one thing, and then you use totally unrelated events to discredit what I wrote.

Here's a thought: Maybe the writers and special effects guys are being totally inconsistent with what they put in the show in regards to drones.

In one episode, they can fly through solid objects without being slowed. In other episodes they explode on impact. it's an inconsistancy that needs some explanation.

o save you the trouble of embarrasing yourself any further.

Actually it relates perfectly! You used the old adage that because he was ex special forces, then he would fire carefully. Despite the fact of the insurmountible odds that were facing them at the time. I simply showed you, that Shep who could operate the chair immediately, fly jumpers instantly & control ancient tech naturally. Whereas in 'It's good to be king', which occurs a lot later on, we see O'neill having problems even starting the thing up. I was proving a point, that it has nothing to do with conserving ammo. It was about getting the job done at that particular point in time.

So thanks for playing, but I'm afraid it's Game Over. Your score ranking considering your post count is the worst that I've come across so far. Try actually watching the SG episodes properly & learn things before you feel qualified to try & pick holes in what people (like me who know exactly what they are talking about) post up!

If I were you,I'd try ebay for a few bargain StarGate DVD's. Just to get you some knowledge of the show before you can feel qualified to attempt to seem like you know what your talking about.

[Thor of The Asgard]

i like those drone weapons...i hope we will see them in action agein...
i hope they find ZPM's and use the chair of the ancients agein...

[Wraith_Hunter]

i like those drone weapons...i hope we will see them in action agein...
i hope they find ZPM's and use the chair of the ancients agein...

Well they have a ZPM & a fresh supply of Drones. After what happens to Daedalus in he finale then that looks like their only choice. However with regards to the virus, then that may disable the chair & so they might not get to use it at all. Hopefully though we'll get to see Drones fly right into orbit this time & see what kind of damage they do to Hive ships.

[BigBadBob]

I think the "problem" they were having was that O'Neill was in stasis. As long as he was frozen, they didn't have anyone familiar with the operation of the chair and drones to take over. Not to mention the ZPM was practically dead after The Lost City II, with only enough juice to connect to Atlantis once before it died.

I think it's kind of silly for TPTB to make us think that Jack fired all of the drones in the outpost, leaving nothing left. I mean, the guy is special forces; he should know about stuff like conserving ammunition, specially if it's rare.

Plus, not everyone can operate the ancient outpost's chair. They have to have a special gene for the technology to activate or something.

[Mister Oragahn]

It's possible that you can infuse more or less energy into each drone, making them more durable and powerful, and increasing their range and autonomy.
Think of instant rechargeable batteries which can also work as weapons.

[lachyn]

i doubt atlantis has drone making facilities, and earth didn't run out of drones, weir said they didn't know if the weapon would work again, it was a power issue, not a drone issue

also, earth still has a zpm, the one camulus brought .... remember oneill sent back the depleted one, all they have to do is fix it, which i'm sure the asgard will do in the nick of time, or sam will have a moment of brilliance, or the tokra will do it, but i think it will happen (maybe zalenka ^_^)

but anyways, i'm sure atlantis has lots of cool stuff that only works at full power, like turbolaser equivalents and stuff like that ....... maybe 1 zpm is the shield, 2 zpm is phaser/turbolaser, and 3 zpm is hyperspace

[SmallTimePerson]

maybe 1 zpm is the shield, 2 zpm is phaser/turbolaser, and 3 zpm is hyperspace

hate tom spoil it for you, but atlantis is a flying city, not a warship. 1zpm shield etc, two zpm prob could fly, 3 zpm fully functional city with hyperspace.