you can't fight what you can't see

[cozzerob]

It all depends on how you cloak yourself - if you bend radiation around you to bend light, you wont be able to see anything. If you try using cameras thats good, but you make yourslf visible on every other wavelength that isn't visible light. And the image is never perfect.

It's important to remember that you can be seen in visible light, by radar reflections, by the heat you give off - all can be detected, so a proper cloak really needs to bend them all around you. That best thing you can do is have a small array of sensors protruding out of the ship. They will make you very slightly visible on radar, heatvision, etc, but only slightly. Think about trying to find something the size of say - a tv in space by radar. Not going to happen. THat way you remain almost completely invisible but manage to have sensors as well...

[cozzerob]

oh - also the article that was posted... the principle behind the idea is to cansel out all incoming waves so nothing is returned... wouldn't that just result in a black blotch floating in front of you instead of invisibility?

[ColdZero]

OOOOoorrrr, the cloak on the puddle jumpers deals with physics far more advanced than we can understand and it overcomes those problems

[IMForeman]

oh - also the article that was posted... the principle behind the idea is to cansel out all incoming waves so nothing is returned... wouldn't that just result in a black blotch floating in front of you instead of invisibility?

Apparantly not... from the article, they've actually done this, and spherical or cylindrical objects nearly vanish when they apply this plasmon coating. I'd love to see this in action. Maybe I should take a run out to UPenn.

-IMF

[IMForeman]

When light is refracted, its path changes. You follow?

But the way your phrasing it seems to imply that to bend light, you have to bend spacetime, or at least the possible paths a photon can take through spacetime... which isn't the case. Light can be bent quite easily... water does it... , it's just controlling that bending to achieve the desired effect that's tricky.

-IMF

[Temp2]

*snip* The last time I checked the stealth bombers of today can fire while in stealth. *snip*

The F-117 and B-2 can't go "in" and "out" of stealth. In fact, opening the weapons bay causes a significantly increased radar cross-section, which is why they have certain systems that decrease to a minimum the amount of time the bay has to be open.

[Three PhDs]

OOOOoorrrr, the cloak on the puddle jumpers deals with physics far more advanced than we can understand and it overcomes those problems

Fire will always produce heat, this is unchanging and inevitable. To be invisible truly, one must not interact in any way with any form of EM. Doing this makes you blind. No debate, no question.

[cozzerob]

The F-117 and B-2 can't go "in" and "out" of stealth. In fact, opening the weapons bay causes a significantly increased radar cross-section, which is why they have certain systems that decrease to a minimum the amount of time the bay has to be open.

quite right. If i recall correctly, they're far from stealthy in daylight. They're about as obvious as a mothership in the middle of Trafalgar Square...

But come night time - you can't see them on the visible spectrum anymore, they soak up and reflect almost all radar waves that hit them and they have special casings for the engines to reduce heat emmision... all in all a nice piece of work.

But as has been said - they can't enter in and out of stealth, they just become less stealthy when firing cos they have to open the missile bays...

To be invisible truly, one must not interact in any way with any form of EM. Doing this makes you blind. No debate, no question.

You are correct here. If you interact, in basically anyway, you become less than completely invisible.

The best idea (IMO) is to have a small sensor array, which won't show up too much, but will enable you to know what you are doing.

The problem with stealth is that you want to be able to interact a little bit - so you inevitably have to sacrifice complete invisibility, and you also have to disguise yourself on every electromagnetic plane, ie, from heat, visible, radar, etc...

If you emit or reflect any of these you become detectable. Fact. The point is minimising emmisions.

[IMForeman]

The problem with stealth is that you want to be able to interact a little bit - so you inevitably have to sacrifice complete invisibility, and you also have to disguise yourself on every electromagnetic plane, ie, from heat, visible, radar, etc...

If you emit or reflect any of these you become detectable. Fact. The point is minimising emmisions.

I agree with you totally, here. I think one of the crucial things to remember when dealing with the puddlejumpers cloak is that space is essentially helping things out. If you can minimize how much EM you actively emit, then the enormity of space will help conceal you. The Wraith ships can't have active sensors pointing in every direction, and the chances of it being scanning in the right direction with the right sensors is just so remote, especially given the speed of the jumpers.

-IMF