Why does 8 chevron take more (It should take less) power

[Col. Newman]

Subspace is like hyperspace the reason hyperspace is so fast is because hyper space is smaller than normal space and i think doctor jackson was showing that i don't think he was talking about folding space

[_Owen_]

I can't even remember the episode, but this is a common way to explain wormholes, which is wrong.

Owen Macri

[VirtualCLD]

Just to add information to my previous post:
We do know that the RL Pegasus Galaxy is 3 Million light years away.

Many have speculated Ida ( a fictional galaxy) is farther. In Exodus, SG-1 and Apophis are accellerated into a Replicator infested galaxy (presumably Ida, since this is where the main war with the Replicators is going on, but not definitive). Jacob says at one point that they traveled 4.5 million light years, which would show that Ida may indeed be farther than Pegasus, based on those assumptions. In Fifth Race (where O'Neill traveled to Ida), we saw that the 8th Chevron lock took more power than what the gate normally takes.

[_Owen_]

I think in "Exodus" they were accelerated much farther away, to an unknown galaxy. I do not believe it was Ida, if it was, they might have been able to identify it.

Owen Macri

[Lord §okar]

By real theory it takes no more energy to create a wormhole to take me to lectures every morning than it does to send me to the core of the sun. Since when one chevron is engaged on the source gate the destination one lights up too, there must be a great deal of gates that are triggered simultaneously (all the ones whose first symbol is encoded in the first chevron on the source gate) and the number is decreased with each subsequent encoded glyph until that plethora of targets is narrowed down to a single one. Logically when you move into a new galaxy there're millions of new gates to exclude, I believe the extra energy is spent on error control only.

[_Owen_]

That is a good idea, I didn't think of that, but perhaps the second gate doesn't start lighting up until the entire sequence on the first gate is complete, remember we have to account for the time that the signals take to reach the other gates. As well, it seems likley that the gate would wait until the entire adress is input, when you dial a phone number that starts with 3 all of the phones that start with three don't start ringing and then stop as you dial more numbers. They don't do that because it is impractical you would have hundreds if not thousands, if not millions of phones ringing at once, which would probably disrupt people.

Man is shingling roof
Phone rings,
jumps off roof runs into the house,
phone stops ringing, turns around
phone immediatley starts ringing again
reaches for phone,
stops ringing,
starts ringing again,
grabs phone,
stops ringing,
holds phone by face,
starts ringing again,
presses "talk" in mid ring,
"HELLO!"
no one is there because they hadn't finished dialing the phone number.

Seems kind of stupid.

Owen Macri

[Lord §okar]

They don't do that because it is impractical you would have hundreds if not thousands, if not millions of phones ringing at once, which would probably disrupt people.
Point of contention number 1: gates are not telephones.

We know that gates dial in real time. Radio messages have neglegible transmission time through a wormhole (instant MALP response and real time radio communication) and messages sent immediately through a just-connected stargate reach their intended target. Transmission time for objects through the gate is alot greater than dialling time and one can step through a wormhole as soon as it's formed, no need to wait for the other terminal to connect. Lastly, in New Ground and Double Jeopardy we switch between Earth and the target gate and we see that they dial and connect in real time.

They don't do that because it is impractical you would have hundreds if not thousands, if not millions of phones ringing at once, which would probably disrupt people.
It happens, nonetheless, as it's a logical side effect of the definite dialling process we see employed.

[~Thor~]

We know that gates dial in real time.

If you mean that the whoosh occurs at same time, which I am assuming since you saidne can step through a wormhole as soon as it's formed, no need to wait for the other terminal to connect.

Once you have entered the first 6 coordinated, the second gate can start dialing (although it shoudln't until after the activate button has been pressed), while the outgoing gate is locking 7th chevron and kawooshing, the incoming gate would have enough time to finsih the dialing (as there is no need for the 7th chevron (I'm not sure if this is proven wrong on the show though)), the extra time needed to kawoosh would be the time it takes to travel.

[Lord §okar]

No. Once you enter the first symbol the second gate starts dialling. I just said why.

(as there is no need for the 7th chevron (I'm not sure if this is proven wrong on the show though)), the extra time needed to kawoosh would be the time it takes to travel.
The Earth gate takes a hell of alot longer to dial than the time spent in transit. Offworld chevrons encode at the same rate as local ones, ergo there can be no loss of time.

Lastly, in New Ground and Double Jeopardy we switch between Earth and the target gate and we see that they dial and connect in real time

[~Thor~]

How is the gate supposed to know which gate to dial until all 6 chevrons are entered.
Unless of course it is like you enter the first button, and all gates with that glyph in same location on address will start dialing. When you enter the second, onlhy the gates with that glyhp as second one in address will continue dialing and others shut off etc. Is that what would happen?

[Qasim]

As it creates a longer wormhole they need more power for the extra distance

[Lord §okar]

How is the gate supposed to know which gate to dial until all 6 chevrons are entered.
Unless of course it is like you enter the first button, and all gates with that glyph in same location on address will start dialing. When you enter the second, onlhy the gates with that glyhp as second one in address will continue dialing and others shut off etc. Is that what would happen?

Yes! Now we're on the same page, of course you could have just read my original post that spawned this whole line of discussion before responding.

By real theory it takes no more energy to create a wormhole to take me to lectures every morning than it does to send me to the core of the sun. Since when one chevron is engaged on the source gate the destination one lights up too, there must be a great deal of gates that are triggered simultaneously (all the ones whose first symbol is encoded in the first chevron on the source gate) and the number is decreased with each subsequent encoded glyph until that plethora of targets is narrowed down to a single one. Logically when you move into a new galaxy there're millions of new gates to exclude, I believe the extra energy is spent on error control only.

As it creates a longer wormhole they need more power for the extra distance
Why didn't we think of that?

[_Owen_]

You are forgeting the gate needs to somehow transmit information over light years, before the wormhole has even been established. This is what I think happens. Gate A dials, wormhole established, just the wormhole, Gate B will recieve it, both will activate event horizons, so there is a period in time, however small, that the wormhole is established but not the event horizon. If Gate B is burried, the wormhole will establish and try to lock, but will not find anything to lock with, so, the gate will not activate, however if the wormhole does connect, the event horizon will activate allowing transit between Stargates.

I know we often see Gate B dialing however, this could just be an oversight. Seeing as my previously stated hypothesis seems very likley. If this were not the case, and the event horizon activated at the same time as the wormhole, then when we dialed Gate B and it was burried we would have an event horizon while the wormhole searches and then it would disapear, however this is not the case.

It seems likley that the offworld gates dialing in is simply an oversight in the episode production.

Owen Macri

[Lord §okar]

You are forgeting the gate needs to somehow transmit information over light years, before the wormhole has even been established. This is what I think happens. Gate A dials, wormhole established, just the wormhole, Gate B will recieve it, both will activate event horizons, so there is a period in time, however small, that the wormhole is established but not the event horizon. If Gate B is burried, the wormhole will establish and try to lock, but will not find anything to lock with, so, the gate will not activate, however if the wormhole does connect, the event horizon will activate allowing transit between Stargates.

I know we often see Gate B dialing however, this could just be an oversight. Seeing as my previously stated hypothesis seems very likley. If this were not the case, and the event horizon activated at the same time as the wormhole, then when we dialed Gate B and it was burried we would have an event horizon while the wormhole searches and then it would disapear, however this is not the case.

None of this is relevant to my theory at all, furthermore it is logically unsound.

You say that no wormhole can be formed without prior transmission of coordinates, but then go on to say that the coordinates are transmitted through a wormhole which, by previous admission, cannot exist without prior transmission of coordinates through a wormhole which, by previous admission, cannot exist without prior transmission of coordinates through a wormhole which, by previous admission, cannot exist without prior transmission of coordinates through a wormhole which...... ad infinitum.

How the coordinate data gets to gates is not an issue the point is it does get to them near instantaneously the evidence for I have already stated.

It seems likley that the offworld gates dialing in is simply an oversight in the episode production.
I see, so when you see something on the show that doesn't fit with your theory you dismiss it since the writers really meant to say what you want?

Seeing as my previously stated hypothesis seems very likley.
To me it seems impossible and immaterial.

[_Owen_]

To you it seems impossible because you did not understand it. I can tell because of what you posted in reply.

This is the series of event:

1) chevron 1 locked on Gate A
2) chevron 2 locked on Gate A
3) chevron 3 locked on Gate A
4) chevron 4 locked on Gate A
5) chevron 5 locked on Gate A
6) chevron 6 locked on Gate A
7) Point of origin and chevron seven locked on Gate A
8) chevrons eight and nine light up
9) wormhole is established and directed to input coordinates
10) if useable gate is found wormhole will connect
11) all nine chevrons light up on Gate B simultaneously as well both event horizons and vortexes are generated on both gates simultaneously
12) connection fully established

The wormhole may be established, Gate B does not need coordinates, Gate B does not need to know anything, it needs to know that a incoming wormhole has been esstablished and that it must open a recieveing event horizon and prepare for transfer.

The wormhole can be directed at Gate B using the information input into Gate A, Gate B just needs to light up and do what I said before. Therefore it is not logically unsound because the establishment of a wormhole does not require transmission of coordinates.

No, when something on the show seem incredibly implausible, difficult to achieve and not neccesary, but also not impossible, and I come up with a more plausible theory, that can explain an aspect of the show, and only a few scences of lights glowing prevent this theory, then I say, allthough the other theory is still possible, this is more likley, and being a television show, with humans at the controls, humans who can make mistakes and or not fully think things through it is still very possible that my theory is correct. Especially seeing as the recieveing gate does not need to know the coordinates dialed, yet, the only thing fully preventing my theory from taking precidence over yours is that, and a few scences.

The alternative is that the signals could be sent through the subspace which you say does not exist, so this cannot be part of your theory, otherwise you will be contradicting your self. Or the Stargate could bend space to send the signals, but then it would completley defeat the point of sending the signals in the first place to establish the wormhole.

Occam's Razor: one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything.

Allthough I don't believe in this and I believe some time more complicated is better, in this case it applies because your theory requires excess assumptions to be made which then allows it to disprove itself. For your theory to work, the signal would have to travel faster than the speed of light, relativley speaking. We have excluded subspace, because you do not believe it exists, we have excluded folding space because it would defeat the point of establishing a wormhole, in hyperspace the signal would not travel fast enough, because to get there fast enough it would have to reach the maximum level of hyperspace, subspace which you do not believe exists, as well, the gate would need a hyperspace window generator, which it doe not posses. The last idea is the Warp drive or the Alcubierre Drive, we can exlude that unless this signal can carry a warp bubble generator, or unless the stargate itslef posseses one which it doesn't that is able to project a warp bubble light years away, which it cannot.

Now the only thing preventing my theory are a couple of 20 second scenes, and the only thing preventing your theory is Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Tell me which one has more footing?

Owen Macri