Could a ship travel ftl

[NotAllowedToNameAnything.Ever.]

yes but what has been done to prove it?

[Darth Buddha]

yes but what has been done to prove it?

Predictions about certain celestial events and behaviors were made, such as the deviations of the orbit of Mercury from Newtonian ideals, the existence of black holes, etc., and then they were checked. The theory predicted the events (supermassive gravitational bodies effects on other bodies, not the actual "black hole" which cannot of course be observed). The observations SUPPORT the theory. Scientific theories can never be PROVEN, only supported or invalidated.

[NotAllowedToNameAnything.Ever.]

What exactlly was observed though?

its just that though, a therory. its like saying dinosaurs and man didn't live at the same time, but some scentist have found proff that they did. I am just saying that most of or current thoughts about space travel or based on something that can't really be proven. The only proff I have ever really read of was that on really fast jet airplanes some atomic clocks have been a little slow. Not even noticable to a human. That's not enough proff to me to say that there is an ultimate speed barrier.

[Seastallion]

What exactlly was observed though?

its just that though, a therory. its like saying dinosaurs and man didn't live at the same time, but some scentist have found proff that they did. I am just saying that most of or current thoughts about space travel or based on something that can't really be proven. The only proff I have ever really read of was that on really fast jet airplanes some atomic clocks have been a little slow. Not even noticable to a human. That's not enough proff to me to say that there is an ultimate speed barrier.

As Darth Buddha was trying to tell you... no theorem can entirely be 'proven', but they are supported by observations of certain phenomenon. He then went on to list a few. Black Holes, being one of them. PROOF, is difficult to come by... because science is like a great tapestry, if you 'unprove' one part it could unravel a whole section within science. However, we can make reasonable assumptions based on a body of observations, and their results. If it keeps happening over, and over again it eventually gets made into a law. Sort of like the sun rises every morning... it hasn't failed to happen in billions of years... at least as far as anyone know...

[Heaven]

yes but what has been done to prove it?

physicists have been accelerating subatomic particles in particle accelerators to speeds more than 99 percent the speed of light for years now and it seems the speed of light in a vacuum (c) constant holds.

[_Owen_]

physicists have been accelerating subatomic particles in particle accelerators to speeds more than 99 percent the speed of light for years now and it seems the speed of light in a vacuum (c) constant holds.

The speed of light in a vacum only is only constant until it passes through an object, this will cause it to slow down, even in a vacum.

Owen Macri

[NotAllowedToNameAnything.Ever.]

yes but black holes or even less understood.

As far as subatomic particales, I always wondered about tachyons. The catch is that they can't be seen because they travel faster then light. you would have to slow them down to actually see them.

I am sorry if I am being a pian in the miktah by by nature i am more of a mechanic. In mechanics the same rules that apply to a small object apply to a large one.

That and I like to think way outside the box.

[_Owen_]

That and I like to think way outside the box.

Join the club!

Owen Macri

[SG1TOM]

I wouldn't put much stock in the current state of physics, as we all know, theories are just that, and one need only look to the past to see all kinds of theories that have been debunked. To say nothing can travel faster than the speed of light would do injustice to ones intelligence, knowing that in coming years, that statement might be viewed as juvenile and patently wrong. The statement should read: According to current physics theory, no matter can travel faster than the speed of light. But this is a great discussion!

[Seastallion]

I wouldn't put much stock in the current state of physics, as we all know, theories are just that, and one need only look to the past to see all kinds of theories that have been debunked. To say nothing can travel faster than the speed of light would do injustice to ones intelligence, knowing that in coming years, that statement might be viewed as juvenile and patently wrong. The statement should read: According to current physics theory, no matter can travel faster than the speed of light. But this is a great discussion!

Maybe... but if we don't base our discussions on what we know is true based on imperical data, then our conversation would just be mindless dribble. It is all very well to say that something may come along to disprove a certain theory, or unmake a given law... but until it does, we can't dismiss said theories or laws. Our most advanced sciences are based on tried and true principles... to simply say they don't matter, makes any conversation in this particular form on Gateworld an entirely moot point.

[Darth Buddha]

What exactlly was observed though?

What was done was that certain deviations were PREDICTED, the effects of supermassive bodies was PREDICTED, and then they looked where such evidence would be found if the theory was true.

its just that though, a therory. its like saying dinosaurs and man didn't live at the same time, but some scentist have found proff that they did.

Yep. Creationists have manufactured such "evidence" that has been released, but never subject to peer review, time after time.

The difference is peer review, and peer replication of results. Dino and man? Nope. Relativistic deviations from Newtonian Physics? Yep.

I am just saying that most of or current thoughts about space travel or based on something that can't really be proven

One more time. NO THEORY IS EVER PROVEN. Gravity isn't "PROVEN". You drop a rock, it falls, but that doesn't mean that eventually it may not (in fact, with quantum theory, eventually the rock will do something entirely different... it might "tunnel" and appear on the surface of Mars!).

Theories are supported by making predictions that are evaluated by observation or by experiment. They are disproven when sufficient contrary evidence accrues.

So far, there is no evidence to invalidate the Theory of Relativity. It organizes a LOT of data (like atomic theory organizes a lot of data.. leading to the A-Bomb). I suggest you do some reading on the topic, because until you do, you won't see WHY the theory is useful in making predictions, in guiding research, and in organizing all available observations.

The only proff I have ever really read of was that on really fast jet airplanes some atomic clocks have been a little slow. Not even noticable to a human. That's not enough proff to me to say that there is an ultimate speed barrier.

You REALLY need to do some reading. The kind of reading that neither I nor anybody else here is going to be able to spoonfeed you in a few posts.

So you can either accept the interpretatinos of those who (obviously) have gone further in their physics education than you have, or you can do the reading on your own, or you can pull a "flat earth" or "intelligent design" and just choose to stick with a more primitive view of the science. I don't mean that as an insult. Personally, I hope you do the reading and come back to tell us about what you find!

[_Owen_]

As far as we know gravity is proven, it is considered a law, "The Universal Law of Gravitation." It states that any object has gravity and will attract every other object. This is stated in Sir Issac Newtons equation Fg=Gm1m2/r^2. For the moment this is a Law, qunatum theory is just that, theory, but I got your point.

Owen Macri

[Darth Buddha]

As far as we know gravity is proven, it is considered a law, "The Universal Law of Gravitation." It states that any object has gravity and will attract every other object. This is stated in Sir Issac Newtons equation Fg=Gm1m2/r^2. For the moment this is a Law, qunatum theory is just that, theory, but I got your point.

Owen Macri

Glad we re talking turkey. From an empirical standpoint, even the "Law" is not proven. Proof is not possible within the scientific context... which is tough for non-scientists to follow, and even fledgling scientists.

Consider the behavior of gravity outside the heliosphere is in question due to some anomalous behavior of the Pioneer probe (not travelling the speed it is supposed to)... the Law may yet be subject to revisions, or perhaps replacement with a new theory that will make the deviations not an adjustment, but in fact something predicted and in the math!

Or perhaps the accellaration of galaxies away from each other (gap energy) will fall out of a new theory that makes gravity just a minor representation of something else.... lot's of possibilities. Doubt any of my suggestions will be true... but I'll bet that given we don't even know how gravity is mediated for sure, that things will change sometime in the future, assuming we last that long!

[_Owen_]

That is a good point, and I agree, laws will be changed. However as far as we know The Law of Universal Gravitation is true. I am not disputing that it could be cahnged.

Owen Macri

[Nurgle]

This topic puts me in mind of that story about the four blind men touching an elephant and coming up with different theories on what it is (a snake, a tree blah blah blah).

BTW, the "light barrier" HAS been broken. Granted, the "object" travelling 300 times the speed of light was infact light (a pulsed laser), and it happened to travel backwards in time (!), but still, it is possible.

[url http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/841690.stm]BBC news article[/url]