As the "Stargate" Turns

[ShadowMaat]

If Sam winds up pregnant, I'll put my fist through my television set. I don't care if it's Jack's, Pete's, or Thor's, I don't wanna see it happen!! And no squirrelling around and have it be one of the males who gets pregnant. That's been done, too, and it only makes it that much more pathetic. IMO.

I won't gripe about why I feel that Sam and Jack- as characters- don't belong together, because I've already said my fill on the subject in both the Ship Discussion Thread and the Anti-S/J Ship Thread.

I will, however, add that characters can gain plenty of emotional development without losing their spines in the process.

[shinyredpants]

i just...just...dont want it to become like x-files *cry*

when scully was pregnant...i...bleh...lets not go there.

i wont go any further with jack/sam here either...i've said my part in the anti threads as well...

i need something to whine about then...

Yes...oh yes!! yes yes yes!!!!!! the episode that will be coming up in S8 where teal'c finally leaves the base...gateworld had a blurb about how teal'c will be getting involved with some sort of dealie thingy whatever...

leave the domestic violence for cops...i want to see teal'c go grocery shopping...

[binkpmmc]

re: newest blurb at sci-fi wire by Ms. Tapping - oh well. Looks like I'll be withdrawing from the show after all. At least I can take some solace in the fact that Ms. T did not call pete an "honest" or "good" guy in this one. Maybe some sort of little point has been made by the mail they have received about it being "bad" behaviour . Regardless of whether people were shippers, anti-shippers or neither, it seems from reading many posts at several different forums, there are plenty of fans who felt pete's behaviour was disresepctful, immature, dishonest, etc., for no other reason than that they thought it was just plain bad.

Too bad for me, and I feel, too bad for the show, as this latest from Ms. T has not given me any hope that pete will be addressed honestly, IMO, so they will, in fact, lose a loyal fan. I am fully aware that my absence won't affect the ratings as one viewer leaving is sort of like spitting in the wind while riding a bicycle, but - too many things I used to watch the show for are gone/minimal, IMO, such as off-world adventures, new alien cultures both friend and enemy, the "team" together, Janet, Hammond. Now, carrying on from S7 and after seeing spoilers, etc., for first 11 eps of S8, I see too many (IMO) earth/SGC based stories, few new alien cultures, few new friends or enemies, less of the "team", more of one of the "team" with guest star of the week, no Janet, very little Hammond and finally I see love lives/girlfriends/boyfriends/romance of the week. Couple all of this with the pete behaviour thing and there really is not much purpose in my watching.

I know, I know, change is good and shows growth but to be honest change is good in the eyes of the beholder just like we all view the show differently and we all perceive the show differently (my not being a shipper or an anti-shipper is the best example I can think of, I just never perceived any of that - and I have discussed this aspect in previous posts re: how I feel that perception is now being thrust upon me by statements actors, actresses and TPTB are making over and over again recently, which make some of the shippy moments, that I never perceived in the first place, fact). You may think me small-minded, shallow or just plain silly but this is it for me - I do not want to waste my time watching a show I don't really enjoy or really respect anymore for some of the things they (yes including TPTB, etc.) have done/said and some of the choices they have made. Again, too bad for me, I'll miss the escape I got while watching a show I really enjoyed and respected but, in many ways I already missed that show since the second half of S7.

Again, I'm not sure why I'm posting this - just to vent, as many do here (since I have felt comfortable here at GW I thought it would be okay to put it here just to make myself feel better), and to express that I am really disappointed and, since Ms. T has acknowledged she does visit here sometimes and Mr. Mallozi does in fact post here, and maybe other of TPTB visit too, maybe one of them will see this and they will be aware that not all fans who feel disappointed in how things are going or in the direction of the show, will be as patient and understanding as others or as willing and patient to give TPTB and the show the continued benefit of the doubt. Hopefully, they will get that they have, regretablly, lost what was once a loyal fan. I hope you all enjoy S8 - have fun.

[ShadowMaat]

As I am fond of saying, bink, change is good, but only if it's for the better. Granted, "better" is in the eye of the beholder, but I'm with you: the changes in Stargate this past season (and the implications for S8) are all for the worse. I don't have the problems with Pete that you and a lot of others do, but I wholeheartedly agree that romance should NEVER be the focus of an ep.

The more I hear about S8, the more I think I made the right move to give up during S7.

I think another part of it isn't just the changes, but the number of changes that are being made. We're losing characters left and right, the entire focus of the show is changing, the characters are coming to the fore as individuals rather than as a team, there are promotions, there are emotions, and there are beloved traits which will be lost forever.

I hope you won't drop out of fandom completely, bink. Just because you no longer enjoy what Stargate is doesn't mean you don't enjoy what Stargate was, right? There are still plenty of sections and threads to hang in even if you don't watch the show anymore. Take it from one who knows. You word yourself well and I like what you have to say, even if I don't always agree 100%. It'd be a shame to lose a good voice.

[Slainte]

The more I hear about S8, the more I think I made the right move to give up during S7.

I'm not giving up, even if I am irritated at the inconsistencies. I'm always Ms. Glass Half Full, but I do see some new energy in the changes. I'll just look away or look through my fingers at the parts I don't like. Seriously, with Stargate SG-1, NCIS and (occasionally) Monk the only television I look forward to watching, I can't afford not to hope for S8 and Atlantis.

YMMV, of course.

[shinyredpants]

i cant wait for the new season of sg-1 and atlantis...

but of course, i do dabble in reality shows...

if only there was a reality show that involved nerds...oh wait...i think there is...

is there?!?!?

[ShadowMaat]

if only there was a reality show that involved nerds...oh wait...i think there is...

Yeah, it's called Mad Mad House. Although "sick freaks" would probably be more accurate a description...

[keshou]

Too bad for me, and I feel, too bad for the show, as this latest from Ms. T has not given me any hope that pete will be addressed honestly, IMO, so they will, in fact, lose a loyal fan. I am fully aware that my absence won't affect the ratings as one viewer leaving is sort of like spitting in the wind while riding a bicycle, but - too many things I used to watch the show for are gone/minimal, IMO, such as off-world adventures, new alien cultures both friend and enemy, the "team" together, Janet, Hammond. Now, carrying on from S7 and after seeing spoilers, etc., for first 11 eps of S8, I see too many (IMO) earth/SGC based stories, few new alien cultures, few new friends or enemies, less of the "team", more of one of the "team" with guest star of the week, no Janet, very little Hammond and finally I see love lives/girlfriends/boyfriends/romance of the week. Couple all of this with the pete behaviour thing and there really is not much purpose in my watching.

Honestly, I can't tell you that all will be well. It could be that they may address the problems some of the fans had with Pete's behavior, but I wouldn't count on it. I thought the Pete storyline had some sloppy writing but it didn't bother me that much -- I'm more concerned with the other issues you mention. HOWEVER, I still think there's a chance that certain episodes and story arcs will entertain me --maybe not as many as in the glory days but there are so few shows I enjoy anymore I hate to give up on Stargate. And frankly the fandom kind of keeps you sucked in.

I thought David had pretty good advice. Watch the first couple of episodes, if you still feel the same way or don't see any light at the end of the tunnel, stop watching and find another show to love. I was actually encouraged by AT's latest blurb on scifi wire and some of the more recent spoilers so I'm feeling more hopeful about things.

And Shadow's right, you can always stick around for fan interaction on the forum. There will be a lot of discussion about Atlantis as well as SG-1 as both shows start airing. And who knows? Pete may not be around all that long in season 8, so if he's the main source of your discomfort you might hang around, see how the new episodes are being received and decide to start watching again.

[binkpmmc]

Thank you very much, Shadow. I appreciate your kind words. It is likely that I will continue to lurk around the boards especially Gateworld as I do enjoy it and Darren and David put a lot of effort into making it a very enjoyable, informative site.

I will look for posts on the new season to see if there is any mention of the show addressing pete's behaviour in the way I think it needs/deserves to be addressed and if I see that happen than maybe I will return to watching at some point - maybe in re-runs or syndie when it gets there - but right now, coupled with all of the other changes that have, IMO, taken away the best of why I used to enjoy and respect the show, I just can't see myself watching.

I enjoy the discussions we can have on this site and maybe I'll continue to post in threads that I can stay knowledgable about without actually watching the episodes otherwise I look forward to keeping track of you and others and maybe dropping by to say hi once in awhile.

Have fun.

[binkpmmc]

Thanks for your thoughtful response Kes.

Yes, I am uncomfortable with pete but it is not because pete is around, it is what he represents with his behaviour and Sam's acceptance of it. Even if pete were to go away half way into S8, or before, and coupled with all of the other things I feel the show has lost since the second-half of S7, I would still not watch unless the story included Sam kicking his A$$, as it is about more than pete being around for me. It is about his behaviour in the second-half as a whole. IMO this has diminished one of my favorite characters (the strong, intelligent, independent, professional woman with self-respect) by accepting disrespectful, dishonest, immature behaviour without any acknowledgement indicating that it is okay for a woman to be treated in this fashion.
It is not even about pete going away - if Sam kicked his A$$ and he stayed around after that it would still go a long way to keeping me around as a viewer because she would have addressed his disrespect, dishonesty and mistrust towards her.

Some people tend to focus on only pieces of his behaviour to justify/dismiss it, however, there was a lot more to it than that. For me the disappointment and discontent stems from what pete represented as a whole in the second-half of the episode. In a span of maybe 2-3 days, if that, what we saw from a man who supposedly loves this woman was: (1) the man walk out on the woman he supposedly loves the morning after they first slept together for no other reason than he did not get his way; (2) he walked out in a little hissy fit as he was still putting on his shoes and his shirt was not tucked in or buttoned as he walked to his truck after he left her; (3) he called his FBI friend to do the background check while still sitting in front of her house after he left her; (4) after he walked out on her he did not attempt once to call her or contact her to discuss it as adults; (5) after he crapped out with his FBI friend and was basically told again to leave it alone, he chose not to leave it alone, instead; (6) he sat near her house waiting and then secretly followed her; (7) he sat all night watching her van at a stakeout with night vision binoculars; and (8) he approached her at the stakeout (without his gun drawn indicating he did not think she was in danger) and calmly called her name while she was exiting the van to go and assist Jack, Daniel and Teal'c.

Taken as a whole I find this behaviour disrepectful, dishonest, immature and completely unacceptable and inexcusable. To be perfectly honest, if all he had done was call his FBI friend to get the background check, crapped out on that and then left it alone I probably would not be as ticked off - but that was only one small piece of the whole pete package in the second-half. Going back to all of the invocations Ms. T made about playing Carter in reality in Season 7 based on what "real" women go through in questioning their life decisions at certain time of their lives, I say where exactly is the reality of a woman in the 21st century accepting this behaviour as a whole? Again, this is my opinion.

I have been disgusted with Ms. T, Mr. C and other PTB trying to justify/dismiss pete's behaviour by picking and choosing certain aspects of the behaviour to focus on such as "Sam didn't know about the background check" or it is human nature to be "inquisitive" so it's okay that he followed her and ran the FBI check. Please, please look at the whole.

Anyway, sorry to go on again but I just get more bugged. Have fun with S8.

[Ali888]

Thanks for your thoughtful response Kes.

Yes, I am uncomfortable with pete but it is not because pete is around, it is what he represents with his behaviour and Sam's acceptance of it. Even if pete were to go away half way into S8, or before, and coupled with all of the other things I feel the show has lost since the second-half of S7, I would still not watch unless the story included Sam kicking his A$$, as it is about more than pete being around for me. It is about his behaviour in the second-half as a whole. IMO this has diminished one of my favorite characters (the strong, intelligent, independent, professional woman with self-respect) by accepting disrespectful, dishonest, immature behaviour without any acknowledgement indicating that it is okay for a woman to be treated in this fashion.


Going back to all of the invocations Ms. T made about playing Carter in reality in Season 7 based on what "real" women go through in questioning their life decisions at certain time of their lives, I say where exactly is the reality of a woman in the 21st century accepting this behaviour as a whole? Again, this is my opinion.

I have been disgusted with Ms. T, Mr. C and other PTB trying to justify/dismiss pete's behaviour by picking and choosing certain aspects of the behaviour to focus on such as "Sam didn't know about the background check" or it is human nature to be "inquisitive" so it's okay that he followed her and ran the FBI check. Please, please look at the whole.

Anyway, sorry to go on again but I just get more bugged. Have fun with S8.

Well, I don't see Pete's behaviour the same way as you do, but I certainly understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately, Sam has regularly accepted bad behaviour from men. She was engaged to a nutcase, her father tried to run her life for her and her CO (for whom she is supposed to have 'feelings') has frequently ignored or belittled her.

I see Sam as being a strong scientist and soldier but fairly weak when it comes to her private life. I don't want to see romance on the show at all but if they insist on hooking Sam up with someone, please let it be someone who respects her, listens to her, doesn't try to run her life or order her around and someone with whom she has things in common, someone she feels she can talk to about anything.

Ali P

[binkpmmc]

Hi Shadow - I did not watch the LowDown, and it seems from what I have been reading on various forums that I made the right choice for all of the reasons stated in my earlier posts. If there is, however, something in there that would give me hope let me know and perhaps I'll try and catch the re-run Friday, if not too bad. Thanks.

[ShadowMaat]

Well, if you can ignore the vomitous scenes of Sam alternately kissing/making out with Jack and then Pete and then I think back to Jack, if you can ignore all the unsubtle hints about shippiness with both of them, if you can pretend that Teal'c having hair is an integral part of the upcoming season and fool yourself into believing that all this shallow stuff about the characters lives (minus Daniel- who's he?) is far more important than anything as stupid as plotting... then you may enjoy the lowdown. Otherwise, I say skip it.

The stuff with Atlantis was kinda fun. I think that's mostly in the latter half. Hewlett/McKay is absolutely brilliant, IMHO and it's almost worth stomaching all that other stuff just to listen to him ramble on about his Malibu beach house and Ancient coffee warmers and things like that. SG-1 may be past its prime, but Atlantis has real potential as long as McKay is around (my opinion, of course). I just hope they let him do things RIGHT once in a while instead of making him the perpetual screwup.

I still think the Wraith are laughable, but you don't notice the badness of the uniforms as much.

[binkpmmc]

Thanks - looks like I'm out for all of the reasons stated in my previous posts here and the Lowdown has not shed any new or different light on the direction of the show.

The new Sci-Fi blurb from Peter DeLuise certainly doesn't say much for the upcoming season either, IMO. Love lives, romance of the week, and he says something about the tone of the new season which he describes as "much more cerebral"?? huh - what is that about? Does cerebral mean bad soap-opera-wanna-be writing? Sorry getting more and more cynical as I hear more and more about this new show "As The Stargate Turns". Too bad it seems that the show, IMO, has become a caricature of itself in some ways.

[ShadowMaat]

Well, I haven't quite reached the point of being embarrassed for the actors and pitying the fact that they're still stuck on the show, but then, that's partly why I don't watch anymore. So I won't reach that point.

I still haven't decided if I'll watch the premiere. If I can remember, I may tune in just to see how it looks. I can always turn it off if it gets too horrible.