What is the best/most powerfull Ship Class in the Stargate?

[blazingfire]

Probably Atlantis city ships for defense capablities, and the Aurora class ships for the normal battle stuff.

[Quetzocoetl]

Probably Atlantis city ships for defense capablities, and the Aurora class ships for the normal battle stuff.

Ah, completely forgot that Atlantis counts as a ship.
I'd say that would qualify as the most powerful ship, if it has some sort of secondary weapon.
It's huge, has shields that can take punishment for days, fires drones, and has a large compliment of cloaking, drone firing fighters.

Full ZPM Atlantis could dominate an O'neill Class Ship.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Hmmmm, difficult to say exactly which ship class is the most powerful.
I'd probably say a ZPM powered Aurora, but they've never been seen in action.
We've also never seen an Oneill (as in the vessels featured in New Order, Revelations, etc), although I would expect that ship to be very powerful and probably beat a ZPM powered 304, since it's built by the Asgard and they developed all of the important offensive and defensive technologies in Earth's vessels I would expect they can power their own tech to the fullest and optimize everything onboard to work more efficiently and still get more out of their own tech.
Unending level Asgard tech on an O'Neill is a fanon concept, but it contains the tech the Asgard made, so it's impossible that the Asgard couldn't make one.

Atlantis with 3 ZPMs was poor against a Hive powered off of 1 ZPM, but Atlantis is a several million year old city that's presumebly designed for movement from point a to b and achieve a safe landing at the end of the journey, so I would imagine it would perform better in a military fashion when based on the ground rather than in space because it's power grid has to transfer energy for everything when in flight, rather than just sitting stationery on the ground with no thrusters for positioning, preventing the city moving off position, inertial dampeners to stop the city from tearing itself apart when it's huge mass moves a small degree, life support and gravity too.
Basically on the ground Atlantis only needs the shield and drones, not much else really apart from lights.

A ZPM powered Hive can likely grow power conduits to transfer more power in a shorter amount of time, more power lines from the main energy source, even if transfer rates on individual power lines are nothing compared to any one piece of Ancient tech doing a similar job they are eventually going to trump the finite number of channels the ancients use to send power.
Basically I would expect the Hive to be able to adapt and improve to a point where it's using the full potential of a ZPM at rate which the Wraith chose, probably only limited by the amount of space the Wraith want to have on their own ship and how big and powerful they want their components to be.
It's possible if the Wraith use their tech to it's fullest and in a smart enough way they could trump anyone with a ZPM at their finger tips.

It's also possible that the designers of the ZPM could have built a ship that makes the most out of a ZPM.
I think this is highly likely!
Auroras that have been shown on the show may not be as amazing as some people think they should be, but we've only seen them powered off of some weaker (than ZPM) reactors.
ZPMs installed on ships have never been mentioned apart from the guys from the Tria have access to one and perhaps using it to allow their ship to reach incredibly close to C speeds.
It may even be the case that the opening salvo of a fully working and drone stocked Aurora of any kind can decimate most ships with a huge opening salvo, save a stationery, ground based Ancient city ship.

Ha'Taks, Travelers, PG Asgard and even Ori Motherships (which are pretty easily beaten 1 on 1 by a ZPM powered 304) aren't really worth mentioning IMO.

[lordofseas]

Hmmmm, difficult to say exactly which ship class is the most powerful.
I'd probably say a ZPM powered Aurora, but they've never been seen in action.
We've also never seen an Oneill (as in the vessels featured in New Order, Revelations, etc), although I would expect that ship to be very powerful and probably beat a ZPM powered 304, since it's built by the Asgard and they developed all of the important offensive and defensive technologies in Earth's vessels I would expect they can power their own tech to the fullest and optimize everything onboard to work more efficiently and still get more out of their own tech.
Unending level Asgard tech on an O'Neill is a fanon concept, but it contains the tech the Asgard made, so it's impossible that the Asgard couldn't make one.

We saw an O'Neill in action at the Battle of the Ori Supergate (Camelot).

Atlantis with 3 ZPMs was poor against a Hive powered off of 1 ZPM, but Atlantis is a several million year old city that's presumebly designed for movement from point a to b and achieve a safe landing at the end of the journey, so I would imagine it would perform better in a military fashion when based on the ground rather than in space because it's power grid has to transfer energy for everything when in flight, rather than just sitting stationery on the ground with no thrusters for positioning, preventing the city moving off position, inertial dampeners to stop the city from tearing itself apart when it's huge mass moves a small degree, life support and gravity too.
Basically on the ground Atlantis only needs the shield and drones, not much else really apart from lights.

A ZPM powered Hive can likely grow power conduits to transfer more power in a shorter amount of time, more power lines from the main energy source, even if transfer rates on individual power lines are nothing compared to any one piece of Ancient tech doing a similar job they are eventually going to trump the finite number of channels the ancients use to send power.
Basically I would expect the Hive to be able to adapt and improve to a point where it's using the full potential of a ZPM at rate which the Wraith chose, probably only limited by the amount of space the Wraith want to have on their own ship and how big and powerful they want their components to be.
It's possible if the Wraith use their tech to it's fullest and in a smart enough way they could trump anyone with a ZPM at their finger tips.

It's also possible that the designers of the ZPM could have built a ship that makes the most out of a ZPM.
I think this is highly likely!
Auroras that have been shown on the show may not be as amazing as some people think they should be, but we've only seen them powered off of some weaker (than ZPM) reactors.
ZPMs installed on ships have never been mentioned apart from the guys from the Tria have access to one and perhaps using it to allow their ship to reach incredibly close to C speeds.
It may even be the case that the opening salvo of a fully working and drone stocked Aurora of any kind can decimate most ships with a huge opening salvo, save a stationery, ground based Ancient city ship.[/QUOTE]

True, but we don't even know if the Hive had only 1 ZPM.

Ha'Taks, Travelers, PG Asgard and even Ori Motherships (which are pretty easily beaten 1 on 1 by a ZPM powered 304) aren't really worth mentioning IMO.

I think the Travelers are worth mentioning. Their shields are able to resist Ancient weaponry.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

We saw an O'Neill in action at the Battle of the Ori Supergate (Camelot).

We didn't see much except for a few shots.
We know the Asgard could eventually make weapons capable of penetrating Ori shields, where previous weapons couldn't.
I really meant O'Neills with APBWs.
From what was seen it's impossible to get any accurate gauge of how strong the shields on the ship in Camelot were.

True, but we don't even know if the Hive had only 1 ZPM.

We do.
In the episode every character that mentions the Hive and ZPM, says a ZPM or the ZPM, not ZPMs.
Here's a link to the Stargate Solutions transcript of EATG:
http://www.stargate-sg1-solutions.co...%22_Transcript

I think the Travelers are worth mentioning. Their shields are able to resist Ancient weaponry.

Travelers could resist Asuran weapons, Ancient ones have never been shown to impact Traveler shields.

[lordofseas]

We didn't see much except for a few shots.
We know the Asgard could eventually make weapons capable of penetrating Ori shields, where previous weapons couldn't.
I really meant O'Neills with APBWs.
From what was seen it's impossible to get any accurate gauge of how strong the shields on the ship in Camelot were.

Except that they managed to sustain more hits than the Korelev.

We do.
In the episode every character that mentions the Hive and ZPM, says a ZPM or the ZPM, not ZPMs.
Here's a link to the Stargate Solutions transcript of EATG:
http://www.stargate-sg1-solutions.co...%22_Transcript

That's an assumption. We never see how they learn information like this.

Travelers could resist Asuran weapons, Ancient ones have never been shown to impact Traveler shields.

Asuran weaponry is identical to Ancient weaponry, although outdated. Just like everything else in their society.

[Ouroboros]

The hive had one ZPM. There's nothing in the episode to suggest it had more than that. There's no assumption necessary at all. It's right there in the dialog. They talk bout "A" ZPM not ZPM(s).

It couldn't be simpler.

The assumption only comes into play on the part of people wanting to imagine more zpms into it because they can't believe it could be as powerful as it was with only one.



I wonder if an O'neill would get a performance boost from having a ZPM, or if their own power generators are already as good or better.

[lordofseas]

The hive had one ZPM. There's nothing in the episode to suggest it had more than that. There's no assumption necessary at all. It's right there in the dialog. They talk bout "A" ZPM not ZPM(s).

It couldn't be simpler.

The assumption only comes into play on the part of people wanting to imagine more zpms into it because they can't believe it could be as powerful as it was with only one.

I wonder if an O'neill would get a performance boost from having a ZPM, or if their own power generators are already as good or better.

...except that the hive got to Earth far more quickly than they anticipated. Atlantis and Earth were working with the time frame of a single Zero Point Module, proven by the dialogue that you so cite from above. Wraith hyperdrives are similar to Ancient hyperdrives, seeing as the Wraith were able to upgrade their hyperdrives using Ancient data (See Aurora, No Man's Land), and that Ancient Hyperdrives are also directly linked to how much power is pumped through them (see First Strike, Lifeline, and Enemy at the Gate). Seeing as McKay would be able to extrapolate the time it would take to cross the void, assuming that it would be with only 1 ZPM, it makes sense that at least more than 1 ZPM would be on board.

[Ouroboros]

...except that the hive got to Earth far more quickly than they anticipated. Atlantis and Earth were working with the time frame of a single Zero Point Module, proven by the dialogue that you so cite from above. Wraith hyperdrives are similar to Ancient hyperdrives, seeing as the Wraith were able to upgrade their hyperdrives using Ancient data (See Aurora, No Man's Land), and that Ancient Hyperdrives are also directly linked to how much power is pumped through them (see First Strike, Lifeline, and Enemy at the Gate). Seeing as McKay would be able to extrapolate the time it would take to cross the void, assuming that it would be with only 1 ZPM, it makes sense that at least more than 1 ZPM would be on board.

They had no real idea of the extent to which the ZPM had boosted the hive's abilities. This is all over the episode. They get surprised by the dramatically increased firepower, surprised by the ability to see through ancient cloaks, surprised by the ability to pick up transmissions from another galaxy. It's not much of a stretch that they would likewise be surprised by the hyper drive speed as well.

They underestimated the thing for the entire episode.

The only reason it didn't all end with a huge pile of burnt corpses was because the plot just forcibly didn't allow the Daedalus, Apollo, Sun Tzu and Atlantis itself to pay the full price of those underestimations as they were all fed to it piecemeal.

This does not mean that the hive must have had more ZPMs than the dialog actually says though, just that the Atlantis team and Earth scientists underestimated just how drastically a ZPM power source would improve a Wraith ship's performance. Something that's not too surprising considering the fact no one had ever tried doing it before, and the unusual biomechanical nature of the Wraith's tech base in general that would make it difficult to predict based on passed experience with more conventional fully mechanical ships.

In any case though "superhive" is not a class of ship since only one was ever built, so it's ineligible for this contest from the get go.

[lordofseas]

They had no real idea of the extent to which the ZPM had boosted the hive's abilities. This is all over the episode. They get surprised by the dramatically increased firepower, surprised by the ability to see through ancient cloaks, surprised by the ability to pick up transmissions from another galaxy. It's not much of a stretch that they would likewise be surprised by the hyper drive speed as well.

They underestimated the thing for the entire episode.

The only reason it didn't all end with a huge pile of burnt corpses was because the plot just forcibly didn't allow the Daedalus, Apollo, Sun Tzu and Atlantis itself to pay the full price of those underestimations as they were all fed to it piecemeal.

This does not mean that the hive must have had more ZPMs than the dialog actually says though, just that the Atlantis team and Earth scientists underestimated just how drastically a ZPM power source would improve a Wraith ship's performance. Something that's not too surprising considering the fact no one had ever tried doing it before, and the unusual biomechanical nature of the Wraith's tech base in general that would make it difficult to predict based on passed experience with more conventional fully mechanical ships.

In any case though "superhive" is not a class of ship since only one was ever built, so it's ineligible for this contest from the get go.

It's a crap episode. No need to discuss ZPMs here.

Back to topic. Best class: Daedalus class.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Except that they managed to sustain more hits than the Korelev.

From a different weapon, which were the pulses shot from the Ori Motherships, these weapons took multiple (although rapidly fired and delivered quickly) shots to down a Ha'Tak, visually we don't really see that many more pulses hit the Asgard's vessel than were shown to down the Ha'Taks.
We never see the main beam weapon of the Ori motherships actually hit the Asgard ship.
What we do see is brief and in no way gives us a clear impression of how much stronger the Asgard's vessel was compared to everything else, not in the same way 304s can be compared to Ha'Taks in shield strength.

We never see the Asgard ship get destroyed, I think someone in the episode after Camelot says something along the lines of "the ori ships cut through all of the fleet", which would have to mean the Asgard ship was destroyed, but no specific details were given, so all we can say is we don't how strong it was in comparison to the other ships there.

That's an assumption. We never see how they learn information like this.

No it is not, diologue is clear and they got their information from Todd here it's in the transcript link I posted above:

TODD
Well, he acquired a rare and powerful piece of technology— one with which I believe you are quite familiar…

INT—MCKAY'S LAB

[Woolsey and Sheppard's team congregate in McKay's lab.]

MCKAY
A ZPM? Are you kidding me?

Asuran weaponry is identical to Ancient weaponry, although outdated. Just like everything else in their society.

While the Asurans architecture and designs may look similar or even like a carbon copy of Ancient tech that doesn't mean they aren't different on a fundemental level.
Still the fact remains that it's never been stated that they are identical, of course it's not been said that they aren't.
I will say that Ancient Auroras have been shown to destroy a Hive and Wraith Cruiser with ease, the Asurans for whatever reason seemed to have trouble destroying the Hives in BAMSR, yet they had more ships which only makes sense if their tech is inferior, the difference is clear when we also look at the episode The Queen (season 5 of SGA), since a PJ can fire no more than 10 Drones on a widespread area that wasn't being hit by Hive weapons (not from what I recall) the Ancient tech has to be better.

[lordofseas]

From a different weapon, which were the pulses shot from the Ori Motherships, these weapons took multiple (although rapidly fired and delivered quickly) shots to down a Ha'Tak, visually we don't really see that many more pulses hit the Asgard's vessel than were shown to down the Ha'Taks.
We never see the main beam weapon of the Ori motherships actually hit the Asgard ship.
What we do see is brief and in no way gives us a clear impression of how much stronger the Asgard's vessel was compared to everything else, not in the same way 304s can be compared to Ha'Taks in shield strength.

We never see the Asgard ship get destroyed, I think someone in the episode after Camelot says something along the lines of "the ori ships cut through all of the fleet", which would have to mean the Asgard ship was destroyed, but no specific details were given, so all we can say is we don't how strong it was in comparison to the other ships there.

Last I checked, the Odyssey was part of that fleet, and it wasn't destroyed.

No it is not, diologue is clear and they got their information from Todd here it's in the transcript link I posted above:

1. We don't see Todd say it outright.

2. Todd told the truth off and on during that episode. Anything he said is circumspect, unless proven or contradicted by the show.

While the Asurans architecture and designs may look similar or even like a carbon copy of Ancient tech that doesn't mean they aren't different on a fundemental level.
Still the fact remains that it's never been stated that they are identical, of course it's not been said that they aren't.
I will say that Ancient Auroras have been shown to destroy a Hive and Wraith Cruiser with ease, the Asurans for whatever reason seemed to have trouble destroying the Hives in BAMSR, yet they had more ships which only makes sense if their tech is inferior, the difference is clear when we also look at the episode The Queen (season 5 of SGA), since a PJ can fire no more than 10 Drones on a widespread area that wasn't being hit by Hive weapons (not from what I recall) the Ancient tech has to be better.

The Asuran Auroras are inferior to the Lantean Auroras. Natural progression of technology, especially in wartime.

[webxro]

While the Asurans architecture and designs may look similar or even like a carbon copy of Ancient tech that doesn't mean they aren't different on a fundemental level.
Still the fact remains that it's never been stated that they are identical, of course it's not been said that they aren't.
I will say that Ancient Auroras have been shown to destroy a Hive and Wraith Cruiser with ease, the Asurans for whatever reason seemed to have trouble destroying the Hives in BAMSR, yet they had more ships which only makes sense if their tech is inferior, the difference is clear when we also look at the episode The Queen (season 5 of SGA), since a PJ can fire no more than 10 Drones on a widespread area that wasn't being hit by Hive weapons (not from what I recall) the Ancient tech has to be better.

Ok do i need to post that part of the BAMSR when a 302 destroys a Aurora with 2 missiles .

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Last I checked, the Odyssey was part of that fleet, and it wasn't destroyed.

The Ori ships destroyed the Korolev with relative ease, there's only one reason Odyssey was left alive and that's so the message could be passed on of how strong the Ori were.
I'll refer back to my previous point, we didn't actually see the ship blowing up or when it happened, there's no information on how many shows of whatever weapons (main beam or pulses cannons) were the final killers of the Asgard vessel.
Basically we know nothing apart from that Asgard ship took what looks like more pulse shots than the Ha'Tak.
TBH I don't even know why you're arguing against this, I never said I thought the Asgard ships were weaker than Ha'Taks or anything else, I think I actually said with APBWs I think they'd be better than 304s, since they are entirely Asgard made and not just a few parts tacked on to a less advanced races ship hull

1. We don't see Todd say it outright.

Well he said "he aquired A rare and powerful piece of technology", he didn't say that Wraith had aquired several, there's nothing ambiguous about Todd's statement.

2. Todd told the truth off and on during that episode. Anything he said is circumspect, unless proven or contradicted by the show.

I thought you may say something like that.
There's nothing about that episode that suggests there was any more than one ZPM, there's no statement by any other character on the show or any set piece that suggests more than one ZPM being used in the Hives construction.
Todd didn't have any reason to lie to the Atlantis team, he was behind bars and would be risking his own life if the ship were to destroy Daedalus, if more ZPMs were present on that ship it would have been mentioned at some point, it would have been a part of the plot that was pointed out, it wasn't and diologue is the only source of info about the number of ZPMs in use on that ship, with nothing else contradicting it.
Since no previous Hives have been shown to use a single or multiple ZPMs there's no other benchmark for what they can do to a Hive.

The Asuran Auroras are inferior to the Lantean Auroras. Natural progression of technology, especially in wartime.

That's what I'm saying, the Lantian ones are better, more capable warships.
I don't recall it being said that the Ancients gave the Asurans designs or lower level versions of their own tech and built it into their programming or anything like that, which would allow them to make perfect copies of the older versions of Ancient tech.
As far as I'm aware the Asurans were intended to be a nano weapon, one that infected the Wraith anything Wraith related, I don't think they were designed to be humanoid or made to make technology like the Ancients had.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Ok do i need to post that part of the BAMSR when a 302 destroys a Aurora with 2 missiles .

Yeah and a battered and bruised orion is holding back fire from a Hive or two on power reserves, there's no indication that the Asuran's ones can even come close to this.
I wouldn't even be surprized if Atlantis could easily pwn Asuras with a decent sized drone salvo.
Basically I think the Asurans are sheeps in wolves clothing, all style and no substance in anything but maybe ZPMs.