Atlantis VS. 4 Ori Motherships

[General_Finley]

Would who is piloting Atlantis affect the battle because I can't decide to put or in the chair. Also when it is said that skiming the atmosphere is draining the shields, how much do you think that took out of atlantis.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Would who is piloting Atlantis affect the battle because I can't decide to put or in the chair. Also when it is said that skiming the atmosphere is draining the shields, how much do you think that took out of atlantis.

Potentially but whether it's Jack or Sheppard I think the two could be fairly even in competence, perhaps Sheppard may be better as he's had more experience with Ancient tech than Jack if Jack isn't containing the Ancient knowledge in his brain.

I thought I'd recheck the battle, here's the link to the youtube video I used if you want a recap:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1klinjIML0
Regarding the skimming of Earth's atmosphere that didn't happen until near the end of the Hive's second salvo, the first one brought the city's shields down to 70%, if the second one drained a further 30% then that's 40% left, then I think there's a third and final salvo from the Hive, which could have left 10% remaining without the atmosphere if the Hive's salvos contained the same number of shots as the first one.
My guess with all the above things in mind is the skimming (or while the city was sitting on Earth's atmospheric barrier) caused a further 5% or so drain on the shields, with the final 5% being used up upon re-entry.

[NormaN]

Atlantis hands down. I remember when Jack fired the drones on Anubis, Herak yelled "Shield's are of no use!" So I assume that it would do the same to an Ori ship, maybe a bit more drones but it would take out 4 Ori Ships easily.

[Buba uognarf]

Your placing too much emphasis on the Superhives first salvo reducing Atlantis' shields by 30%, the battle lasted for a few minutes after that and the rate of fire from that Hive ship was way higher towards the end of the battle. If 10 shots could remove 30% of Atlantis shields then the battle would have been over in seconds not minutes.

In 'Search and Rescue' Michaels cruiser takes 20% of the Deadalus' shields away in about 15 shots, yet the battle appears to last for another 15 minutes.

What I'm trying to say is that the initial shield loss isn't necessarily a good basis to determine how long a battle would last.

[Dragon_Heart]

Your placing too much emphasis on the Superhives first salvo reducing Atlantis' shields by 30%, the battle lasted for a few minutes after that and the rate of fire from that Hive ship was way higher towards the end of the battle. If 10 shots could remove 30% of Atlantis shields then the battle would have been over in seconds not minutes.

In 'Search and Rescue' Michaels cruiser takes 20% of the Deadalus' shields away in about 15 shots, yet the battle appears to last for another 15 minutes.

What I'm trying to say is that the initial shield loss isn't necessarily a good basis to determine how long a battle would last.

I'm not placing to much emphasis on it what so ever. It is exactly how much shield efficiency was lost. 18 superhive shots depletes 30% of atlantis' shield. Also, with the rate of fire being alot higher, that would explain were the rest of the shield went when they tried re-entering the atmosphere.
To correct you, it is not 10 shots that removes 30% it is 18, and this makes a rather considerable difference.

For 'search and rescue', a daedulus class shield it alot weaker than atlantis', and 10 superhive shots depleted its shield completely. So this is comparable and acceptable. The wraith cruisers rate of fire varies alot, re-watch the episode. When your on the ship, a shot hits the shield every per say 30 seconds? maybe less but thats about correct.

That settled, i'm un certain wether or not to agree with 'What I'm trying to say is that the initial shield loss isn't necessarily a good basis to determine how long a battle would last'. By what do you mean initial shield loss? The amount a shield is damaged initially, or how long it took to tatally deplete the shield?

We were never trying to reveal how long it would take, only the nessasary salvo it would take to deplete atlantis's shield. In no way have we shown that we want to know the exact time it takes to deplete, that would be silly as we have no idea as atlantis shield has never been shown to be completly depleted from weapons fire.

That settled, hopefully we all get the point that i was trying to show how much weapons fire it would take to deplete, not how long it would take. Bringing down astlantis's shield basically means the end of the battle if the attacking ship can still fire its weapons efficiently.

With my calculations (Dis-regarding the improvements made to the hive after it left the daedulus battle) we have an amount of weapons fire to base this argument on. Please, use the damage parameters and work out your own opinion and share it.

[General_Finley]

I was going over the time frame when I found out that they had the Orion, so I was wondering would they send a ZPM Orion rather then Atlantis and if they did send the Orion what would they do with the two extra ZPMs.

[tjoflojt]

a fixed, ZPMed, Orion would have wipped some serious superhive as, IMO.

[General_Finley]

a fixed, ZPMed, Orion would have wipped some serious superhive as, IMO.

most likely but would it change the outcome of the battle of the supergate.

the first visible volly of blasts from the super hive was 19 blasts. the next volly was only 10, then Atlantis started skimming the atmosphere, then the next visable volly was 35, then after a cut away sequence it is stated that shields are about to collapse, then after the sene were Atlantis 1 escapes the hive explodes and a plasma wave is seen erupting outwards, then Atlantis hurtles towards earth shields, lands in san Fransisco has enough energy to clocke but looks like it might be a while before it can go back to pegasus.

[tjoflojt]

the orion might have managed all of the toiletsbowls by itself.

[morrismike]

the orion might have managed all of the toiletsbowls by itself.

What have you seen in the series to lead you to that conclusion?

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

I was going over the time frame when I found out that they had the Orion, so I was wondering would they send a ZPM Orion rather then Atlantis and if they did send the Orion what would they do with the two extra ZPMs.

I think Earth most likely would have sent the Orion in Atlantis's place, mainly because Atlantis is more valuable than any Aurora.
As far as what Earth would do with the ZPMs if Atlantis is left in PG with a ZPM and Earth in your scenario has found 3 more then I think Earth would put the two spare ZPMs on the 304s, maybe (being that Korolev is a Russian controlled ship) give one to the Asgard if it'll up their ships abilities and put the other one on the Odyssey.

The extra Drones from the Tower could also be loaded onto the Orion.

[Dragon_Heart]

What have you seen in the series to lead you to that conclusion?

1. Drones do enough to either kill a toiletbowl or damage it enough for it to retreat.

2. Orion shields are very strong. They can survive for months in wraith controlled territory.

3. Aurora class vessels are ownage. Rate of fire of drones is pretty efficient too. Salvo could be increased.

Things to go against the Orion killing toiletbowls is:

1. Ori shields have ascended tech incorporated = Extremely strong shielding.

2. Main wank cannon is super powerful/ also has turrets for closer/smaller battles.

3. More manouveable.

[morrismike]

I'm not giving you a hard time but I must be watching different episodes than you.

1. Drones do enough to either kill a toiletbowl or damage it enough for it to retreat.
The antarctica defense platform with far more drones than any aurora would be able to carry managed to chase off a single toilet lid.

2. Orion shields are very strong. They can survive for months in wraith controlled territory.
Orion shields we getting hammered by hive fire in the episode with the dedy and would've been able to withstand just a few minutes head to head with a hive. Toilet lids are an order of magnitude above that.

3. Aurora class vessels are ownage. Rate of fire of drones is pretty efficient too. Salvo could be increased.
The tria with zpm ran from cruisers. Multiple zpm auroras were captured in the wraith war.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

I'm not giving you a hard time but I must be watching different episodes than you.

1. Drones do enough to either kill a toiletbowl or damage it enough for it to retreat.
The antarctica defense platform with far more drones than any aurora would be able to carry managed to chase off a single toilet lid.

We have no way of knowing just how many Drones the platform from The Road Not Taken had used to cause the Ori Cruiser to flee, of course from The Lost City part 2 they can launch more than a ZPMless Aurora, but since Atlantis can't launch drones as fast as an Aurora can it's fair to say that an Aurora would do more damage than Atlantis would to an Ori ship.

2. Orion shields are very strong. They can survive for months in wraith controlled territory.
Orion shields we getting hammered by hive fire in the episode with the dedy and would've been able to withstand just a few minutes head to head with a hive. Toilet lids are an order of magnitude above that.

I think Dragon Heart meant ZPM powered Auroras which were said by Todd to go deep into Wraith territory, remember it took months for the Wraith to capture the three.
As for the Cruiser incident with the Tria we have no way of knowing what happened prior to that event, but we know that an Aurora can tear apart a regular Cruiser in mere seconds with a pretty small volley of Drones.

3. Aurora class vessels are ownage. Rate of fire of drones is pretty efficient too. Salvo could be increased.
The tria with zpm ran from cruisers. Multiple zpm auroras were captured in the wraith war.

Drones are obviously effective against Ori Cruisers, if they were not then why would an Ori ship run from Earth?
For all we know whoever was controlling the Ancient weapons platform could've just shot a few times, Drones can pretty much automatically go through Ha'Tak shields, while the Ori's are many times stronger they're not invulnerable as the APBWs show.
It only takes what 6-8 Odyssey beam shots to kill an Ori ship?

Would anyone like to hazard a guess how many drones would be equal to an APBW shot?

[Dragon_Heart]

I'm not giving you a hard time but I must be watching different episodes than you.

1. Drones do enough to either kill a toiletbowl or damage it enough for it to retreat.
The antarctica defense platform with far more drones than any aurora would be able to carry managed to chase off a single toilet lid.

2. Orion shields are very strong. They can survive for months in wraith controlled territory.
Orion shields we getting hammered by hive fire in the episode with the dedy and would've been able to withstand just a few minutes head to head with a hive. Toilet lids are an order of magnitude above that.

3. Aurora class vessels are ownage. Rate of fire of drones is pretty efficient too. Salvo could be increased.
The tria with zpm ran from cruisers. Multiple zpm auroras were captured in the wraith war.

1. We do not now how many drones it took, also we do not now that the antarctica platform has more drones than a standard aurora fully equipped.

2. The orion was weak, no ZPM, fixed by humans and was left rotting for a few thousand years in a hangar with its systems decaying. IT faired well against the hive, and nonly lost its shields because radick has to swtich the ower buffer to the dornes away form the shields.

3. Tria may have bneen previously damaged before hand,as an aurora can cream a cruiser very very very simply. Only 3 were captured, and that was after months of them being in wraith territory.

Point proven.