The City of Atlantis and Ancient Technology

[Wass]

Or travel through the gate back to MW to get some food.

[Ancients Rising]

If the Ancients could seed life across the galaxy, then plants and animals wouldn't be that hard for them would it?

[Jarnin]

The Ancients could probably rearrange particles. So they could make meat from iron.

You're talking replicator technology from Star Trek here. The thing is, those replicators worked with molecules, not particles.
They used molecular resolution instead of quantum resolution (like the transporters), which is why they always complained that replicator food didn't taste as good as real food.

Since the ancients use teleportation technology, I think it's safe to say they have some sort of analog to the Star Trek's replicators, but with a different name. Maybe a foodinator?

In any case, they'd basically need alot of power, and access to raw materials to construct whatever molecules they needed. Then they'd arrange the molecules in a certain way that resembles meat, or a shirt, or ice cream.

Then again, humans on Earth learned about agriculture about 10,000 years ago. I guess in the show, it'd have either been the Goa'uld teaching us that, or the Atlanteans.

[asura]

I think the ancients only managed to explore the milky way and pegasus because they where putting stargates on plants they found which could support life and they might of even terraformed a lot of the planets as well.

All of that coupled with the study of new life forms they found and gathering the raw resources to make new gates and outposts and cities all ovey the place most likely ment they had very little time to invent new technology.

And be honest if you where an ancient would you reather sit in a room trying to make a new more powerful shield or would you jump in your own ship fly of to a unexplored star and see if theirs a tropical paradise planet where you build a nice little city?

The rapid ascent of our technological understanding will slow down when space travel becomes commonplace for the same reason as well.

I thought the ancients explored the asgard galaxies as well?

[langdonboom]

I think the answer to a lot of the technology stagnation questions can be found in the whole ascention thing.

My feeling is that they perfected their technology and their own personal, internal, spiritual powers to the point that they no longer needed anything -- technology, food, bodies, etc.

Many religions speak of this as being the ultimate goal, transcending the need of anything on the physical plane -- so who needs stargates when you're a non-corporeal being?

And not to mention -- we can't assume to be able to understand the late-corporeal Ancients completely until we're at their level of development. Think about how a caveman would respond to a cel phone. He wouldn't even know what it was supposed to be for, let alone how to work it. The whole idea of talking across distance would be a mind-blower if he could even get his head around it at all!

Now, some may say we're at a level where we can grasp higher concepts (see SG-1's dealings with the Asgard for some evidence of that) that more advanced races use, but I still think the Ancients (especially if they are to retain their great dramatic weight) are so much further along in simple evolution, if not only technology -- and even at the level that they build atlantis at -- that to assume we could just MacGuyver anything and everything they left behind would be unreasonable, and also boring!

Anyway, I look forward to these issues unfolding, but as many have said -- not too fast! I still like what the Nox said -- the very young do not always do what they are told.

[LiquidBlue]

I used SW as an example, but going back to the Ancients, consider this question: Once you've reached a certain level of technology, what more is there to develop? What's the impetus to keep pushing ahead? Here are some things the Ancients, in the Milky Way and Pegasus, could do:

- bring back the dead by healing them instantly
- create flying cities capable of traveling to other galaxies
- seed galaxies with life
- build a vast network of stargates capable of instantly transporting living and non-living matter from one planet to another; from one galaxy to another
- time travel
- terra-forming
- genetic engineering
- ascending to god-like form

Think about that. Basically, the question is, what more could they want? Once you've reached a certain level of advancement, there is very little refinement to be done. For them, the next step was to become "gods", which they did. There wasn't much more for them to explore, develop, or create -- they basically did everything that they needed to or wanted to do.

This brings up the enigma of the Plague. Certainly the Ancients had achieved tremendous medical knowledge, yet they were afflicted by an uncurable disease. The had a necessity, and we have at least one example, WoO, where they tried to expand the boundaries of their technology in order to free themselves of it.

Thus we have one example where Ancient technology and knowledge was not sufficient (possibly two examples, if we count the Wraith) to meet a challenge, and where this challenge spurred them to reach further.

Is it possible that the Ancients reached a point where for a very long period of time there were no challenges that they could not handily meet, and that thus no longer driven they no longer advanced. That could even explain the reason for Atlantis. Maybe it was created as a vehicle of exploration, to find the challenge that was no longer possible in the Milky Way, to find new things. Of course if this is the case, Atlantis failed, they found a new galaxy, but no new challenges, grew complacent, and were not prepared for the Wraith. For example, I imagine the Ancients were fairly wary when they first arrived in Pegasus. If they had come across they wraith then, I believe they would have been capable of finding the means to overcome them.

[wazza727]

Yay my first post whoo hooo

[Replicarter]

That would be spaming, id put that after a reply if i were you, anyway, i havent read all of the thread, but i noticed people were refering to teh Ancient librery, but what im interested in is basic wepons, why havent we seen a hand held wepon? We have seen the wraith with them

[spg_1983]

That would be spaming, id put that after a reply if i were you, anyway, i havent read all of the thread, but i noticed people were refering to teh Ancient librery, but what im interested in is basic wepons, why havent we seen a hand held wepon? We have seen the wraith with them

the more we learn about the ancients the more i think that they probably didnt have them. the ancients tended to like to do thinks on a very big and grand scale, so i think that hand weapons would be "beneath" them. then again they did invent a personal shield so maybe they did engage in small arms combat. what if they were like big on hand to hand combat and blade fighting, hence the personal shield. maybe we will find an armory of all sorts of energy blade weapons!! that would be cool......

[Atomic Edge]

Well I suppose from a Drama perspective, Atlantis was the "Savior Set piece" in series 7 of SG1 (even though it wasn't quite as actively usefull as they were hoping) but if you start a new series and give everyone everything then it takes away the tension of hardship and this makes for a much tamer, (and for that matter, more boring) story line...

I expect they will find out that the ascended gits sabotaged all their stuff before they retreated, then it will be the story ark of about season 3 when they find another "Atlantis" in the pegasis galaxy :-/

Good post by the way!

[LiquidBlue]

First let's assume that the Giza gate was brought to earth from another planet and that the gate found in "Solitudes" in Antartica is the original earth gate left by the ancients. The lady in the ancient hologram seemed to assume that there was a gate on earth that inhabitants of Atlantis could gate to.

(1) Was the antartic gate the earth gate from before atlantis, or was it left on earth at the time atlantis left? I assume that during the time Atlantis was on earth its gate was the primary gate. I guess it is also possible that the gate found in antartica was the original atlantis gate and that it was left on earth when the ancients decided to strike out to another galaxy.

(2)In connection with the first question: Was earth connected to the stargate network previous to the time that Atlantis was on earth? If it was, what happened to the original gate?

(3)From what I remember from "The Lost City," the ancient outpost discovered in Antartica was not close to the discovered location of the Antartica gate. I say this because from "Frozen," there is a structure over the gate location, but I did not see any structures near the location SG1 discovered the outpost. Why was the Antartic gate found so far from the outpost? Why does it seem to be just left on the ice?

(4)I suppose Aiyana is the same woman seen at the begining of "Rising." Why is she found so far from the outpost, with the gate? Why is she frozen?

Perhaps the easiest solution to #4 is that it is not the same woman, but that the woman found in "Frozen" is a returning ancient from Atlantis, and that she somehow became frozen and left behind. This is redered unlikely because it seems that Aiyana had the plague that the ancients suffered from, but their has been no indication that the ancients in pegasus suffered from the plague, in fact it is likely that they left for pegasus to escape the plague.

My pet theory, assuming the time frames work out (when did the ancients return to earth?), is that ancients returned from pegaus and found themselves coming through the Giza gate. They were instrumental in overthrowing the Goa'uld rule on earth, and were in fact so convincing that no Goa'uld dared establish rule over earth again. (Of course it seems they still liked to go harvesting.) Did the returning ancients come back in puddle jumpers? It seems that the only gate on earth that they were aware of was located in the middle of a frozen continent.

Anyway the 4 questions above troubled me just a bit. They are mysterious without answers at this point. Any speculations? At least some of them are related to the questions; Why Atlantis? Why Earth?

[Blend]

MIght have been said, im still reading the first page, but it occured to me that they havnt been exploring the city and discovering things for good reason.

1. The writers want to keep some material for later (obviously)
and they could be able to back it up with reason within the stargate world
such as:
- Their No.1 concern is getting back to earth, and probably bringing scientists to atlantis, or taking the technology back to be studied. The expedition (while the best of the best) may not have enough people, or resources to be able to successfully examine everything therefore are concentrating on getting home
also - as someone already mentioned, it could be caution. They dont want another incident like the creature that sucks power

[caes4]

I agree, the main difference between atlantis and Sg-1 is that in atlantis, they just keep finding more and more new technology every episode and it takes them two seconds to figure how they work, whereas in SG-1 they make it seem like the technology is very difficult to figure out.
That is one point that i dont like about atlantis episodes. It seems much too easy for earthlings to figure out how the ancient technology work. If even the Asgards couldn't figure out how ancient technology work, how is it that humans can learn to use ancient technology so quickly.
also, in SG-1 they sometimes kinda try to explain how some of the new technology they aquire actually work. whereas in atlantis they dont. they just somehow make it work and thats that.

Also, regarding the ancient gene. If humans could bypass it and artificially inject the ancient gene into people, wouldn't it be safe to say that other more advanced species (such as wraiths) could easily do the same?

[roswellgray]

First let's assume that the Giza gate was brought to earth from another planet and that the gate found in "Solitudes" in Antartica is the original earth gate left by the ancients. The lady in the ancient hologram seemed to assume that there was a gate on earth that inhabitants of Atlantis could gate to.

(1) Was the antartic gate the earth gate from before atlantis, or was it left on earth at the time atlantis left? I assume that during the time Atlantis was on earth its gate was the primary gate. I guess it is also possible that the gate found in antartica was the original atlantis gate and that it was left on earth when the ancients decided to strike out to another galaxy.

(2)In connection with the first question: Was earth connected to the stargate network previous to the time that Atlantis was on earth? If it was, what happened to the original gate?

(3)From what I remember from "The Lost City," the ancient outpost discovered in Antartica was not close to the discovered location of the Antartica gate. I say this because from "Frozen," there is a structure over the gate location, but I did not see any structures near the location SG1 discovered the outpost. Why was the Antartic gate found so far from the outpost? Why does it seem to be just left on the ice?

(4)I suppose Aiyana is the same woman seen at the begining of "Rising." Why is she found so far from the outpost, with the gate? Why is she frozen?

Perhaps the easiest solution to #4 is that it is not the same woman, but that the woman found in "Frozen" is a returning ancient from Atlantis, and that she somehow became frozen and left behind. This is redered unlikely because it seems that Aiyana had the plague that the ancients suffered from, but their has been no indication that the ancients in pegasus suffered from the plague, in fact it is likely that they left for pegasus to escape the plague.

My pet theory, assuming the time frames work out (when did the ancients return to earth?), is that ancients returned from pegaus and found themselves coming through the Giza gate. They were instrumental in overthrowing the Goa'uld rule on earth, and were in fact so convincing that no Goa'uld dared establish rule over earth again. (Of course it seems they still liked to go harvesting.) Did the returning ancients come back in puddle jumpers? It seems that the only gate on earth that they were aware of was located in the middle of a frozen continent.

Anyway the 4 questions above troubled me just a bit. They are mysterious without answers at this point. Any speculations? At least some of them are related to the questions; Why Atlantis? Why Earth?

(1) the antartic gate was the primary earth gate. the gates were invented by the Atlanteans on earth. i wonder if the pegasus atlantis gate was already invented on earth and was used by the atlantis city ship only when traveling to different galaxies.- that's why the symbols aren't engraved so they could be modified for use in different galaxies.

(2) the antartic gate was the original,only and first gate see answer one above.

(3) it was a very big city ship - most likely far from the city like other ancient colonies. remember the outpost was near the center of the city ship and fitted in an opening.

(4) probably left the outpost for some unknown reason - maybe trying to gate to another world in the milky way or maybe her outpost ZPM could power the gate to pegasus

I wonder why the ZPM on the earth outpost was depleted?

[Blue Banrigh]

I thought I might ressurect this thread to ask this question rather than start a new one, but is Atlantis still anchored to the ocean floor, or does it rather float on the top of the water like a boat?

Also, how does it operate as a space ship if there are no airlocks? I mean they could use the shield, but McKay did say that keeping the shield on 24/7 would equal a big waste of energy.