simple reason asgard ships are better than lantian ships

[FN-P90]

For those of you claiming an O'Neill's speed would make it immune to drones... may I remind you that we have never seen a ship actually take evasive action in Stargate with the exception of 304s? All vessels, be they Asgard, Ancient, Asuran, Wraith, Traveler, Goa'uld, Ori, etc. simply stand there, shoot out weapons, and take them in return. There's no reason to suggest this would change now.

I agree. that and it seems like they would be alittle too slow to take anyreal evasive actions.

[Gate-builder]

like i said: the repository holds all knowledge, useless or usefull, old or new, outdated or not. so it most likely helds the common weather conditions on earth ca 10 mil years ago, and zpm research, and drone tech, and the analysis of our own star, and the plants on earth, and on all the other planets.

it holds a ton of knowledge, the asgard just skimmed it and filtered out whats usefull, thus barely scratching the surface. a city ship is mighty, yet purely worthless in space: the ship part is to migrate it from planet to planet, not to have orbital warfare. as to powersources: zpm's are cool. but asgard powersources are powerfull, long lasting, and as far as i know arent super batteries like zpm's

I agree, the repository would contain many things useless to the Asgard. However in the context of what Thor was saying, it was obvious that he was meaning that the Ancients knew a lot of things that the Asgard didn't. Jack proves this later when he builds the ARG in about 10 seconds, the Asgard tried building a weapon using a similar principle and could not get it to work.

A city ship is surely not the good choice. As we saw, Atlantis was barely maneuverable and had only shields, drones and hyperdrive. Against an O'Neill class vessel, I doubt the drones would ever touch them (so far drones have always been fired to static or slow-moving ships) while Asgard beams would surely do.

Atlantis does not need to be maneuverable. It doesn't need to line itself up with its enemy in order to fire like the Asgard ships do. And yes drones would touch an O'neill. They are smart weapons, they can follow their target around. Atlantis would be able to fire at least as many drones as the Antarctic Outpost, you wouldn't be able to see the O'neill for drones, every square inch of it would be getting pounded. An O'neill simply would not be able to handle the kind of firepower Atlantis could dish out. No ship could.

[YutheGreat]

Asgard ships look cooler.

[pbutter]

For those of you claiming an O'Neill's speed would make it immune to drones... may I remind you that we have never seen a ship actually take evasive action in Stargate with the exception of 304s? All vessels, be they Asgard, Ancient, Asuran, Wraith, Traveler, Goa'uld, Ori, etc. simply stand there, shoot out weapons, and take them in return. There's no reason to suggest this would change now.

They have.
The Daneil Jackson, commanded by Thor against Replicator controlled Hatak's.
I can't remember what episode though.

Also, Atlantis is not a ship.
Its a city that can take off from one planet, only to land at another.
I am also doubtful that the city can be operated like a space ship, it cannot handle that kind of stress, it was never made to.

[YutheGreat]

For those of you claiming an O'Neill's speed would make it immune to drones... may I remind you that we have never seen a ship actually take evasive action in Stargate with the exception of 304s? All vessels, be they Asgard, Ancient, Asuran, Wraith, Traveler, Goa'uld, Ori, etc. simply stand there, shoot out weapons, and take them in return. There's no reason to suggest this would change now.

Yes we have.

The O'neill commanded by the Asgard in Camelot was evading and firing at the Ori ships that we saw.

Hataks commanded by the free Jaffa in the battle for Dakara and when the Ori invaded Tulak

BAMSR also saw a lot of movement from the Alliance ship

Michael's cruiser evaded attack from the Daedalus

[thekillman]

and so on.

actually since this is about ships, not who commands it, earth would do evasive maneuvers with them. also, i think its safe to assume drones dont penetrate asgard shields. the asgard vessel would just keep evading and keep taking drone hits, and when the aurora is out of them, the oneill strikes hard.

atlantis is a city built on a ship. but its not meant for space warfare.
its easy to build an ARG against something you know, and you have built. if i create an android, then its easy for me to know how to destroy it. the asgard didnt create the replicaters, and thus didnt know how to take em out properly, as they didnt have the entire picture. the ancients did, and thus could easily make one.

yes the ancients knew alot the asgard didnt. but then, about the repository, you can ask "what didnt they know then? ". even in its context, you can still say they discribed the effects of a zpm explosion, something the asgard didnt know. or alloy compositions the asgard didnt know. or info on the potential of drones they didnt know. or how an operator[with these stone vblocks, as used in dakara] was made, or used, etc. perhaps things about the milkyway. or their homeworld. or something else. seriously, it couldve been anything, like the existance of dark matter, or dark energy , or atoms they didnt know existed. perhaps a phisics law they hadnt figured out yet. or some maths. or research on ascension, given that they knew they couldnt ascend in unending. perhaps the key to more powerfull weapons. things about morales.

and yes the ancients are superior. but how much? judging from the power of the beam weapons, they were offensively superior, even with drones. their shields, given that atlantis has a hero shield, are slightly lesser due to depletion. but powerwise? superior[given that atlantis is an exception: its built around the shield.]
atlantis is an exception. its shield is unique, its stardrive too. but apart from a migratable city: is it really that good at war? seeing the power of the beam weapons, id say it can be taken out within a day or two, if all of earth's ships fight against it. our mark IX nukes can incinerate everything within 160km. so atlantis would be engulfed in an explosion. do it nuke after nuke after nuke etc. it cant resist it for long. the asgard: given that they can make an ARG sat, they could make a beam sat aswell. the asurans could be imitated: their homeworld can produce suficient power.

yet lets stop this"what if" discussion.
would they do it? no.
ancients: too arrogant and stubborn. dont develop much new tech
asgard: forgot how to think tactical. try to use more and more advanced tech to beat enemys.

yet heres the key: the asgard would go advancing to beat a superior enemy. so they would catch up with the ancients eventually, while the ancients would be stuck at their level of advancement. the asgard would build a new ship made for war, equip it with the latest tech, and keep attacking. the ancients would send too few ships. time after time being beaten.
the question is: where would it end? would the ancients evacuate again? would they hold on to their ships, and keep building the same?
would the asgard keep advancing? or would they say its enough. just incinerate them. i dont think so. the asgard are defensive. so the ancients would attack: the asgard would defend.

[lord groovy]

and so on.
yet heres the key: the asgard would go advancing to beat a superior enemy. so they would catch up with the ancients eventually, while the ancients would be stuck at their level of advancement. the asgard would build a new ship made for war, equip it with the latest tech, and keep attacking. the ancients would send too few ships. time after time being beaten.
the question is: where would it end? would the ancients evacuate again? would they hold on to their ships, and keep building the same?
would the asgard keep advancing? or would they say its enough. just incinerate them. i dont think so. the asgard are defensive. so the ancients would attack: the asgard would defend.

And at the end they may all die.

[s09119]

Yes we have.

The O'neill commanded by the Asgard in Camelot was evading and firing at the Ori ships that we saw.

No, it just moved forward and fired. It wasn't evading anything.

Hataks commanded by the free Jaffa in the battle for Dakara and when the Ori invaded Tulak

I'll have to rewatch that, but moving back and forth a grand total of a few dozen meters doesn't look very "evasive"-y to me...

BAMSR also saw a lot of movement from the Alliance ship

Only Earth ones.

Michael's cruiser evaded attack from the Daedalus

True, but I call on the Plot Shield of Doom to explain that.

[wise one]

the aroura's were built for the purpose of the wraith war

the oneils were built soley for the replicator war

if asgard and ancient were to fight they would of biult ships to combat each other but the asgard would be more war tactical since dealing with the replicators for i think it was hundreds of years, i might be wrong

i think the oniel would be more of a match to the aroura, even if the it does use drones on it

1. drones are slow compared to the oniels rate of fire in which its possible that the oniel main weapon could take out a few drones if they were in the way

2. its possible to beam the drones away or if it even has one, those beliskner beam teleporter like they did in thors chariot since it would be abit like life signs to the sensors or energy signitures

3. drones only cause a small explosion, the aroura would persumanle need many hundreds or a thousand to wear down the asgard shield

4. even the rate of fire from a cruiser wore down the aroura shields though it was at roughly 20%, the oneil fire would be conderibly larger and more powerful

5. they are just cooler than the ancients one

[youarehere]

ark of truth: good movie

[dr_plasma]

Asgard ships are better than lantean ships because in "be all my sins remembered" 2
earth ships (basically asgard) and a collection of other ships were able to beat the Pegasus replicator fleet of about 30 ships
replicator tech is the same as lantean tech
there were 4 human ships (not earth) and we all know those are weaker than ancients
7 wraith hive ships (wraith only beat the ancients in number, in this case they are outnumbered)
and 2 earth warships, they must have given the edge in the battle and they were almost entirely asgard technology

[morrismike]

The Orion had an intergalactic hyperdrive. It was able to travel at about the same speed as the Daedalus.

um no..
The dedy dropped out just ahead of Orion. The dedy could have been adjusting her speed so they'd drop out together.

[Raineman]

im gonna just throw it out their but the Ancients ships would of dominated Asgard tech if the Ancients were still around. You need to remember the Ancients left Atlantis 10 000 yrs ago and then they ended up Ascending, The Asgard on the other hand were around until the last episode of SG-1 so they had 10 000 yrs to learn better tech. If the ancients were around to this day they would of made ships that would probly destroy an Asgard ship in a few shots. You cant say Asgard would smash Ancients as you dont know what the Asgard had 10 000 yrs ago

[Raineman]

yes and the ancients arent around anymore. so if the ancients now made a ship it would smash anything as the ancients would be able to wipe out a planet in their ascended form. i dont understand how you are putting a ship made over 10 000 yrs ago vs a ship made recently. of course an asgard ship would beat an ancient ship with the ships of the time. their is no real arguement people can use against that. but if the ancients made a ship today it would destroy an asgard ship

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

Asgard ships are better than lantean ships because in "be all my sins remembered" 2
earth ships (basically asgard) and a collection of other ships were able to beat the Pegasus replicator fleet of about 30 ships
replicator tech is the same as lantean tech
there were 4 human ships (not earth) and we all know those are weaker than ancients
7 wraith hive ships (wraith only beat the ancients in number, in this case they are outnumbered)
and 2 earth warships, they must have given the edge in the battle and they were almost entirely asgard technology

What are you talking about?
It's been stated by Joe Malozzi that replicator ships are not clear copies of the Ancient's vessels.
On screen in The Queen we see an Ancient made Puddle Jumper turn the tide of a battle from one Hive losing, to finally raping the winning one, with a handful of Ancient built drones.
Orion easily creamed a Hive with an overkill shot of a few hundred drones, judging by it's size it could clearly hold many thousands and in reality only a few dozen would be needed to really kill a Hive, with careful targeting reactors of a Hive could be taken out with far less and leave the Hive sitting there powerless or it'd explode from the force of the impact and destruction of fuel.

Todd has stated that if in The Last Tribe he'd gotten too close to Atlantis it could have taken out Daedalus's hyperdrive, that was with full shields, I believe he even stated using a few drones would do the job.

This is all using Ancient technology, not Asuran.
What we've seen of Asuran technology, when compared to the Ancient stuff we've seen in action proves that it is no where near the Ancient's level.

If the Asurans had even close to the Ancient's level of technology then all of the Hives in BAMSR would be dead within seconds of dropping out of hyperspace, the 304s wouldn't be far behind, Travelers would probably have died first.


Many people within this thread keep stating that an Asgard ship would easily beat an Ancient vessel, but look at the Ancient's best shield, on Atlantis it can take days of punishment from a whole fleet of Hives and Cruiser ships.
That's with a single ZPM.
With 3 the time would be tripled.
Auroras were built more than a million years after Atlantis left Earth, standard ones don't have a ZPM, so you can't expect them to be able to charge their buffers as fast as when a ZPM is installed, but still from what we've seen of a 10,000 year old, damaged ship, that was left to drift in space for 10 millenia it was still lasting far better than our brand new 304s when facing the same odds in BAMSR.

TBH there's no comparison, the Aurora could dump more fire power than the 304 could in the same amount of time and the 304 uses Asgard technology.
Even though Auroras have munition based weapons a 304 can't charge it's weapons forever, so it's still limited, the Ancients could make as many drones as they can find resources to make and they can clear a battlefield, without having to maneuver a ship into position to take out each target one by one.