Originally posted by thekillman
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Everything you ever wanted to know about Hiveships/Wraith.
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Originally posted by asdf1239 View Postthe problem is, credible sources have been wrong in the past most prominently manifested in the dvd magazines which place the ori ship's width as over twice that of the supergate. there's also the wraith cruiser being 2500 meters long
In a pile of contradictory nonsense it seems like the "truest" number one could possibly go with.
I don't have the direct quote anymore but Mr. Oragahn shared it with me when we first put up this thread, so maybe he still does? He's generally much better and keeping track of this stuff than I am.
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NO WE CANT as there will allways be an ep that contradicts it. stop being stupid and learn to live with it.
304's have been often scaled at 500-600 meters. exact scalings are impossible. ha'tak at 800 and somehwat meters, and well there are exceptions but this is the most common. i use the same rule as i use with technology: if the majority of the episodes does it right and 1 contradicts, then the contradictory is simply wrong.
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Originally posted by thekillman View Postif over 75% of the episodes shows it right, then unless it's directly said differently (like with hives), isn't it likely to be that size?
304's have been often scaled at 500-600 meters. exact scalings are impossible. ha'tak at 800 and somehwat meters, and well there are exceptions but this is the most common. i use the same rule as i use with technology: if the majority of the episodes does it right and 1 contradicts, then the contradictory is simply wrong.
the closest we will get to scaling any ships in sg is "its big" "its bigger then a 304" "its smaller then a 304" etc
and i will say this a hive is quite big and thats as good as its ever going to get.
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yes you're allowed to have your opinion. but if we have to have some figure, why not take the most common one, accept that as canon and see where it goes? it's not like we're gonna get accuracy up to 10 meters or so. it's a range. a hive canonically is 11km because it's said so, not shown so.
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Originally posted by Alx View PostNo we cant!!!!
WE CANT SCALE ANYTHING IN SG CORRECTLY
as the people behind the cgi and animations have never had a set scale for anything every ep is diffrent from another and there will never be a consensis on this subject CLEARLY the ships in Stargate SG1 SGA and SGU can not be scaled due to the CGI teams inapt ability to stick to scale its that simple people.
For example, Allies is quite exceptionally good, as far as the ratio between a hiveship and the Daedalus is concerned, since it works very well. You can see this in the first posts on page 1 of this thread.
That said, isn't it the same episode where a Wraith corvette is escorted by two F-302s? Because in that sequence, Atlantis was terribly small.
Besides, people often think of this schematic view, which was also shown in Allies I think. So the real view of the ships didn't even correspond to the schematic scales.
Sometimes, there are true scaling horrors. In some old posts on TheScifiWorld board, I recall Wes Sargent and Bruce Woloshyn from Rainmaker commented on the issues of having several studios, working sometimes on the same episode, working on the same ships, scenery, and redoing other models, scaling and assembling the pictures in some particular way which may not exactly be what one team would have gone with. Frankly, I couldn't tell who from Rainmaker, Imagine Engine or the other studios that intervened in the VFX production at times is really responsible for most of the scaling issues. Each show, SG-1, SGA, etc. has a visual effects producer (supervises stuff) who would have pointed out such things if they mattered, but logically, in TV SF, since all ships have to fit inside the screen at once, so proper scales are only coming in a distant second place.
Still, Rainmaker made most of the original models for both shows, so the internal inconsistency could come from them as well. That's not to put into question the impressive quality of the models themselves, though.
But can you imagine the Executor in Star Wars being shrunk just because all other ships would look too small, and then from sequence to sequence, changing size, sometimes down to half its original length when first seen?
Well, that's what happened in Camelot, or in Be All My Sins Remember'd. Hiveships became just as long as the Aurorags, which themselves seemed to have shrunk copiously when you look at the F-302s and Darts flying close to them.
Atlantis was another regular case of horrible scaling. Originally Bruce considered that Atlantis height was between 325 and 350 meters high, and the length 1.3 km. He had those comments removed though.
Suddenly, it seems they realized that they needed to show a city size fitting with something in the 3.x km wide range, like for example in the exploding tumor episode (Sunday), with McKay on the edge of a pier. However, they have never corrected the gateroom balcony, which is totally oversized.
Enemy at the Gates featured a properly scaled hiveship, even if that one was special. Which is unfortunate, because I'm sure fans of the ~5 km scaling will say the super hiveship was that big because of the ZPM, so they managed to grow a 11 km beast.
Never mind that certain parts of a hiveship certainly don't look like they're grown, but built. It's hard to swallow that these structures can be upscaled arbitrarily.
As for the official hive ship length, it was first described in a post in the Scifiworld forums, which are now closed.
Here's a quotation from the original message:
The original Wraith Hive ships (at over 11 kilometers in length) were created in LightWave. The design, based on production art by James Robbins for the pilot, was done by my good friend (and lead 3D animator), Wes Sargent.
They once had a spaceship chart, which showed another original hive ship model as 10,800 feet long. That's 3291.84 meters. Amusingly, if you're a bit imaginative, you can see where the 11 km length comes from.
The Aurora wasn't even properly designed, and the Daedalus was given a length of 1050', or 320.04 meters.
A length of 320 meters wasn't stupid at first, since the biggest modern US super carriers are roughly that long. But they're also extremely cramped. When you look at the nacelles of a 304, you realize that there's plenty of space, and that if you project the real length of the ship based on the width of the nacelle runway, you realize that a couple hundred meters are missing and would make more sense.
I find those figures logical and correct.
Originally posted by EnigmaZ, Jul 26th 2005, 6:26amStudying a schematic behind Hemoid, the D's width is half it's lenght. 82mm long, 43mm wide, side hangers 23mm long x 8mm wide, flatdeck 40mm long x 27mm wide incl the side ext, powercore 25mm long, nose overall 16mm wide, nose main 9mm wide, hanger 6mm wide, 8mm long, main sublight engines 30mm long. Using a ratio of 1mm = 18 feet from the hanger dimension, we get + or - 10% ;
Lenght 1475 feet
Beam overall 775 feet
Height exc antenna 190 feet
Central hull width 160 feet
Hull width over nose extensions 290 feet
Flatdeck lenght overall 720 feet
Flatdeck width overall including angled sides 485 feet
Hanger side pods overall lenght 415 feet
Hanger side pods overall width 145 feet
Hanger internal lenght 240 feet
Hanger internal width 140 feet
Hanger internal height 30 feet
Hanger door width 95 feet
Ion engines lenght 560 feet (from nozzile to powercore)
Okay, it seems rather large. I used 1mm to 25 feet to start with by using the width of the hanger door from the schematic, but it was not a clear shot and very small, making the dimensions of the ship too big, so I went back to the shots of the bay door from the front to get a rough ship's beam, then worked off that to find a better ratio to use. I got a width overall of about 750 to 800 feet from a external shot taken from the front at a slight angle where the hanger doors are in veiw. But most of the dimensions are from what is behind on the situation display where in 2.2 Hermoid asks "if I may be so bold, but what are we looking for". If I use a ratio of less than 18 foot to the mm, the ship will be smaller, but also the hangers, and then they will not match the cavenous spaces shown in 2.2, believe me, they are hugh inside.
Hmm, I just saw a Prometheus situation display behind Colonel Caldwell when he was being told that Munro's death may not have been an accident by the doctor.
That made a length of 449.58 meters for the Daedalus, and the external straffing shots from Allies fit with the corresponding width. My overall result for the hive ship length was 10,983.04 m.
11 km, simply put.Last edited by Mister Oragahn; 05 April 2010, 05:16 PM.
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