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Thread: Outside (313)

  1. #21
    Colonel mad_gater's Avatar
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    to me having the Burn be the apparent result of an accident on the part of Su'Kal seems rather anticlimactic

    would've made for a better series I think if this were another hostile act by, say, the Sphere Builders and they wind up in another war with them

  2. #22
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad_gater View Post
    to me having the Burn be the apparent result of an accident on the part of Su'Kal seems rather anticlimactic

    would've made for a better series I think if this were another hostile act by, say, the Sphere Builders and they wind up in another war with them
    One way or another I knew it wasn't going to be something we had encountered before since Season 3 was so far removed from anything else we've seen before. Sure we saw the Trill and Vulcans and Orions but the state of the Galaxy was completely different to anything we saw before.

    But the mistake was made by repeatedly stating how important the Burn was and how obsessed the characters but Michael in particular were at finding the answer. It put the wrong emphasis on the show and made it seem like the reasoning was going to be much bigger than it actually was.

    The better thing to have done was raise the Burn as a mystery early on but then let it hang as something relatively unimportant in the grand scheme. Let Discovery finding Starfleet and adapting to their new time as the priority.

    I'd also restructure the season so that Georgiou's Terra Firma two parter occurs in the middle of the season after Die Trying and while Burnham is still First Officer. This would would do several things in terms of tonality. First it would put Nhan and Georgiou's departures right next to each other which will give a kind of "Going their separate ways" kind of feel to everything and this could be reflected more in Georgiou's wake at the end of Terra Firma. The crew can be more worried about where they'll end up as opposed to that more forced "We all loved the Crazy Emperor!" thing. Second it would stack together the episodes where the Burn isn't brought up at all so we get a prolonged break from the question. Third it casts Vance in a better light earlier on with his speech about "Helping a crew member who is drowning" to Saru. It has him give a critique of Saru's command style rather than a criticism which obviously comes later. Finally it gives us a few more episodes of Burnham as XO.

    Next Scavengers can come up as before but drop Burnham's pretense and excuse that she wants to save Book and his data on the Burn. Just have her make the judgement that she is in love with him and can't let him die and make the Burn data a lucky happenstance. Make it why Book was caught off guard and captured but only reveal that at the end of the episode.

    The rest of the season can basically occur as before. Burnham loses her post as XO but Discovery is now treated by Vance and Starfleet as though they finally have an actual mission. The new info on the Burn gives them a direction and a science mission for them to prove themselves on. Tilly's promotion to XO happens the same but because moving Terra Firma shortens the latter half of the season it kind of puts her journey more in the forefront and by the time you get to The Citadel and taking command for the first time, yes it seems to occur very quickly but that highlights both her fears and capabilities all the more. The only real downside is that it also shortens the time in which Burnham goes from her demotion to being Captain but I think it may still work.

    Ultimately a few changes could have made the Burn seem like less of this mega urgent mystery and more like a very important but largely inconsequential question. Sure you can still raise the fears of "It might happen again if we don't know what caused it" but it can also be pointed out that it makes Discovery's Spore Drive all the more important and ultimately otherwise the galaxy really doesn't have any other choice.
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  3. #23
    Colonel mad_gater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    One way or another I knew it wasn't going to be something we had encountered before since Season 3 was so far removed from anything else we've seen before. Sure we saw the Trill and Vulcans and Orions but the state of the Galaxy was completely different to anything we saw before.

    But the mistake was made by repeatedly stating how important the Burn was and how obsessed the characters but Michael in particular were at finding the answer. It put the wrong emphasis on the show and made it seem like the reasoning was going to be much bigger than it actually was.

    The better thing to have done was raise the Burn as a mystery early on but then let it hang as something relatively unimportant in the grand scheme. Let Discovery finding Starfleet and adapting to their new time as the priority.

    I'd also restructure the season so that Georgiou's Terra Firma two parter occurs in the middle of the season after Die Trying and while Burnham is still First Officer. This would would do several things in terms of tonality. First it would put Nhan and Georgiou's departures right next to each other which will give a kind of "Going their separate ways" kind of feel to everything and this could be reflected more in Georgiou's wake at the end of Terra Firma. The crew can be more worried about where they'll end up as opposed to that more forced "We all loved the Crazy Emperor!" thing. Second it would stack together the episodes where the Burn isn't brought up at all so we get a prolonged break from the question. Third it casts Vance in a better light earlier on with his speech about "Helping a crew member who is drowning" to Saru. It has him give a critique of Saru's command style rather than a criticism which obviously comes later. Finally it gives us a few more episodes of Burnham as XO.

    Next Scavengers can come up as before but drop Burnham's pretense and excuse that she wants to save Book and his data on the Burn. Just have her make the judgement that she is in love with him and can't let him die and make the Burn data a lucky happenstance. Make it why Book was caught off guard and captured but only reveal that at the end of the episode.

    The rest of the season can basically occur as before. Burnham loses her post as XO but Discovery is now treated by Vance and Starfleet as though they finally have an actual mission. The new info on the Burn gives them a direction and a science mission for them to prove themselves on. Tilly's promotion to XO happens the same but because moving Terra Firma shortens the latter half of the season it kind of puts her journey more in the forefront and by the time you get to The Citadel and taking command for the first time, yes it seems to occur very quickly but that highlights both her fears and capabilities all the more. The only real downside is that it also shortens the time in which Burnham goes from her demotion to being Captain but I think it may still work.

    Ultimately a few changes could have made the Burn seem like less of this mega urgent mystery and more like a very important but largely inconsequential question. Sure you can still raise the fears of "It might happen again if we don't know what caused it" but it can also be pointed out that it makes Discovery's Spore Drive all the more important and ultimately otherwise the galaxy really doesn't have any other choice.
    It also seems to me like they STILL can't think outside the box. If this is still the prime timeline and not an alternate one then they'd had something like 800 years to both perfect the coaxial warp drive technology encountered by the original Starship Voyager in the Delta Quadrant (which folded normal space) and/or figure out the trick that Q Junior used with a standard navigational deflector to open a spatial flexure (which I assume was another way of folding normal space)....yes the Disco's spore drive is handy but that makes it seem like they were sitting around waiting for the Disco to show up with said drive instead of using those 900+ years to figure out other alternative means of FTL travel

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mad_gater View Post
    It also seems to me like they STILL can't think outside the box. If this is still the prime timeline and not an alternate one then they'd had something like 800 years to both perfect the coaxial warp drive technology encountered by the original Starship Voyager in the Delta Quadrant (which folded normal space) and/or figure out the trick that Q Junior used with a standard navigational deflector to open a spatial flexure (which I assume was another way of folding normal space)....yes the Disco's spore drive is handy but that makes it seem like they were sitting around waiting for the Disco to show up with said drive instead of using those 900+ years to figure out other alternative means of FTL travel
    Yes but that assumes Dilithium doesn't still play a key role in those technologies or even that Warp Drive is simply more efficient and most reliable. After all, it is the primary form of travel throughout the entire Galaxy. Even the Borg don't exclusively use Transwarp for example.
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  5. #25
    Colonel mad_gater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    Yes but that assumes Dilithium doesn't still play a key role in those technologies or even that Warp Drive is simply more efficient and most reliable. After all, it is the primary form of travel throughout the entire Galaxy. Even the Borg don't exclusively use Transwarp for example.
    maybe they just need to go to the Stargate-verse and abscond with some ZPM's

    I know it would be less efficient but I'm sure enough thermonuclear reactor power (same as what powers the sub-light impulse engines) could generate enough power to operate many FTL technologies (would probably take quite a bit of reactor power, said reactors would probably have to be enormous and nuclear power isn't without its own pitfalls...Chernobyl anyone? )

  6. #26
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    Michael cared too much about the burn not because of the incident itself. It was because of its consequences. It caused her beloved Federation fall. She had t know what caused it out of her loved for the federation.

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