Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

That Hope Is You, Part 2 (313)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    Originally posted by lopo30 View Post
    As they had the lift shaft same in season 2 when they were not in the future.
    That timeship in Enterprise was around same time they jump into the future but they are not in the same universe anymore.
    In Enterprise there was no burn of the dilithium for the future. And up to that date we didnt even have Kelvin timeline that is Romulan solar system blow up. I dont exactly understand why Romulan solar system needed to blow up for Picard series.
    Like Kurtzman want to combine all the universes to one for the picard series and have the kelvin timeline in it too.
    Kelvin timeline works for JJ movies as it's basically reboot of the Star Trek in movies format.

    While discovery is meant to be in canon with the original series as it's before TOS era.
    It would of been simple and less question if they only would of just said that it wont be in canon with TOS and be new universe as a reboot of star trek tv show. Especially as this show is mostly built up for CGI bling and action with swearing
    Discovery is currently is in the latest point we've ever seen in the Trek timeline so the reason they never mention the Burn in Enterprise is because it hadn't happened yet. They also never mention the Romulans at all in that regard so the destruction of Romulus which occurred in the Prime Timeline is still perfectly in keeping with canon. Hell they even keep the destruction of Romulus in Star Trek Online which treats itself as a sequel to Prime.

    And we do see the lift shaft in season 2 but to a much smaller degree. That's what I was talking about in regards to the aforementioned service space which is on Discovery's deckplans. In season 2 it makes sense. It was just far too big as shown in the season 3 finale.

    It's canon. It's the same universe. There was never any need for a reboot.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by P-90_177 View Post
      Discovery is currently is in the latest point we've ever seen in the Trek timeline so the reason they never mention the Burn in Enterprise is because it hadn't happened yet. They also never mention the Romulans at all in that regard so the destruction of Romulus which occurred in the Prime Timeline is still perfectly in keeping with canon. Hell they even keep the destruction of Romulus in Star Trek Online which treats itself as a sequel to Prime.

      And we do see the lift shaft in season 2 but to a much smaller degree. That's what I was talking about in regards to the aforementioned service space which is on Discovery's deckplans. In season 2 it makes sense. It was just far too big as shown in the season 3 finale.

      It's canon. It's the same universe. There was never any need for a reboot.
      Burn happened 120-160 years before the Discovery timeline latest point
      So if they are around 3240 year then it happened in 3080 or something.

      Now for the Romulus part. I dont have any books for Star Trek and i dont play the online game or have played any of the Trek games. Was the Romulus solar system explosion anywhere mentioned before the JJ movies ?

      After the movies they can write it in what ever canon.
      But then again it was only a solar system that should not affect so devastatingly to a Empire like they made it out to be in the shows. As we didnt much get to know how it was for the movies.

      And well to be honest books have never affected anything for Star Trek TV shows or movies.
      sorry about my lack of language skills as it is not my daily language and have learned it by my self as not from any help of others or a school

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by lopo30 View Post
        Burn happened 120-160 years before the Discovery timeline latest point
        So if they are around 3240 year then it happened in 3080 or something.

        Now for the Romulus part. I dont have any books for Star Trek and i dont play the online game or have played any of the Trek games. Was the Romulus solar system explosion anywhere mentioned before the JJ movies ?

        After the movies they can write it in what ever canon.
        But then again it was only a solar system that should not affect so devastatingly to a Empire like they made it out to be in the shows. As we didnt much get to know how it was for the movies.

        And well to be honest books have never affected anything for Star Trek TV shows or movies.
        3069 was when the Burn happened. Before that the latest point in time we have any info on was 3052 which is the year Daniels transports Archer too at the end of Discovery season one and gets trapped. Daniels describes it as being his time. So anything after that point is fair game and is why it's pointed out in Discovery that Time Travel has basically been outlawed following the Temporal Wars covered in ENT.

        No Romulus wasn't described as destroyed prior to the JJ movies but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Romulus is never described at all in any of the other stories set in the future. The closest we get is Q's Alternate future in All Good Things where the older Picard recollects that the Neutral Zone no longer exists and the Klingons have taken over the Romulan Empire. The why could quite easily be due to Romulus being gone.

        Rome was only a city in a vast Empire. It's sacking and burning still led to the fall of the Romans. That's what happens when an Empire has its seat of power focused in one place. We even have precedent for this as the Entirety of Star Trek VI is about the fear the the Klingon Empire will fall apart due to the loss of one power generating moon and the ecological destruction of their Homeworld as a result. Empires center themselves in one place. All resources and wealth are drawn to that location and all logistics and decision making is carried out from there. When that location falls then so will an Empire.
        Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

        Comment


          #19
          This may be a really silly question and might be answered due to my lack of Star Trek knowledge but where were the Klingons in season 3? Has something happened to them at this point?

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Teddybrown View Post
            This may be a really silly question and might be answered due to my lack of Star Trek knowledge but where were the Klingons in season 3? Has something happened to them at this point?
            We don't know is the simple answer. Klingons were never mentioned even in regards to what was going on in the 29th and 30th Centuries.
            Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

            Comment


              #21
              to me having the Burn be the apparent result of an accident on the part of Su'Kal seems rather anticlimactic

              would've made for a better series I think if this were another hostile act by, say, the Sphere Builders and they wind up in another war with them

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by mad_gater View Post
                to me having the Burn be the apparent result of an accident on the part of Su'Kal seems rather anticlimactic

                would've made for a better series I think if this were another hostile act by, say, the Sphere Builders and they wind up in another war with them
                One way or another I knew it wasn't going to be something we had encountered before since Season 3 was so far removed from anything else we've seen before. Sure we saw the Trill and Vulcans and Orions but the state of the Galaxy was completely different to anything we saw before.

                But the mistake was made by repeatedly stating how important the Burn was and how obsessed the characters but Michael in particular were at finding the answer. It put the wrong emphasis on the show and made it seem like the reasoning was going to be much bigger than it actually was.

                The better thing to have done was raise the Burn as a mystery early on but then let it hang as something relatively unimportant in the grand scheme. Let Discovery finding Starfleet and adapting to their new time as the priority.

                I'd also restructure the season so that Georgiou's Terra Firma two parter occurs in the middle of the season after Die Trying and while Burnham is still First Officer. This would would do several things in terms of tonality. First it would put Nhan and Georgiou's departures right next to each other which will give a kind of "Going their separate ways" kind of feel to everything and this could be reflected more in Georgiou's wake at the end of Terra Firma. The crew can be more worried about where they'll end up as opposed to that more forced "We all loved the Crazy Emperor!" thing. Second it would stack together the episodes where the Burn isn't brought up at all so we get a prolonged break from the question. Third it casts Vance in a better light earlier on with his speech about "Helping a crew member who is drowning" to Saru. It has him give a critique of Saru's command style rather than a criticism which obviously comes later. Finally it gives us a few more episodes of Burnham as XO.

                Next Scavengers can come up as before but drop Burnham's pretense and excuse that she wants to save Book and his data on the Burn. Just have her make the judgement that she is in love with him and can't let him die and make the Burn data a lucky happenstance. Make it why Book was caught off guard and captured but only reveal that at the end of the episode.

                The rest of the season can basically occur as before. Burnham loses her post as XO but Discovery is now treated by Vance and Starfleet as though they finally have an actual mission. The new info on the Burn gives them a direction and a science mission for them to prove themselves on. Tilly's promotion to XO happens the same but because moving Terra Firma shortens the latter half of the season it kind of puts her journey more in the forefront and by the time you get to The Citadel and taking command for the first time, yes it seems to occur very quickly but that highlights both her fears and capabilities all the more. The only real downside is that it also shortens the time in which Burnham goes from her demotion to being Captain but I think it may still work.

                Ultimately a few changes could have made the Burn seem like less of this mega urgent mystery and more like a very important but largely inconsequential question. Sure you can still raise the fears of "It might happen again if we don't know what caused it" but it can also be pointed out that it makes Discovery's Spore Drive all the more important and ultimately otherwise the galaxy really doesn't have any other choice.
                Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by P-90_177 View Post
                  One way or another I knew it wasn't going to be something we had encountered before since Season 3 was so far removed from anything else we've seen before. Sure we saw the Trill and Vulcans and Orions but the state of the Galaxy was completely different to anything we saw before.

                  But the mistake was made by repeatedly stating how important the Burn was and how obsessed the characters but Michael in particular were at finding the answer. It put the wrong emphasis on the show and made it seem like the reasoning was going to be much bigger than it actually was.

                  The better thing to have done was raise the Burn as a mystery early on but then let it hang as something relatively unimportant in the grand scheme. Let Discovery finding Starfleet and adapting to their new time as the priority.

                  I'd also restructure the season so that Georgiou's Terra Firma two parter occurs in the middle of the season after Die Trying and while Burnham is still First Officer. This would would do several things in terms of tonality. First it would put Nhan and Georgiou's departures right next to each other which will give a kind of "Going their separate ways" kind of feel to everything and this could be reflected more in Georgiou's wake at the end of Terra Firma. The crew can be more worried about where they'll end up as opposed to that more forced "We all loved the Crazy Emperor!" thing. Second it would stack together the episodes where the Burn isn't brought up at all so we get a prolonged break from the question. Third it casts Vance in a better light earlier on with his speech about "Helping a crew member who is drowning" to Saru. It has him give a critique of Saru's command style rather than a criticism which obviously comes later. Finally it gives us a few more episodes of Burnham as XO.

                  Next Scavengers can come up as before but drop Burnham's pretense and excuse that she wants to save Book and his data on the Burn. Just have her make the judgement that she is in love with him and can't let him die and make the Burn data a lucky happenstance. Make it why Book was caught off guard and captured but only reveal that at the end of the episode.

                  The rest of the season can basically occur as before. Burnham loses her post as XO but Discovery is now treated by Vance and Starfleet as though they finally have an actual mission. The new info on the Burn gives them a direction and a science mission for them to prove themselves on. Tilly's promotion to XO happens the same but because moving Terra Firma shortens the latter half of the season it kind of puts her journey more in the forefront and by the time you get to The Citadel and taking command for the first time, yes it seems to occur very quickly but that highlights both her fears and capabilities all the more. The only real downside is that it also shortens the time in which Burnham goes from her demotion to being Captain but I think it may still work.

                  Ultimately a few changes could have made the Burn seem like less of this mega urgent mystery and more like a very important but largely inconsequential question. Sure you can still raise the fears of "It might happen again if we don't know what caused it" but it can also be pointed out that it makes Discovery's Spore Drive all the more important and ultimately otherwise the galaxy really doesn't have any other choice.
                  It also seems to me like they STILL can't think outside the box. If this is still the prime timeline and not an alternate one then they'd had something like 800 years to both perfect the coaxial warp drive technology encountered by the original Starship Voyager in the Delta Quadrant (which folded normal space) and/or figure out the trick that Q Junior used with a standard navigational deflector to open a spatial flexure (which I assume was another way of folding normal space)....yes the Disco's spore drive is handy but that makes it seem like they were sitting around waiting for the Disco to show up with said drive instead of using those 900+ years to figure out other alternative means of FTL travel

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by mad_gater View Post
                    It also seems to me like they STILL can't think outside the box. If this is still the prime timeline and not an alternate one then they'd had something like 800 years to both perfect the coaxial warp drive technology encountered by the original Starship Voyager in the Delta Quadrant (which folded normal space) and/or figure out the trick that Q Junior used with a standard navigational deflector to open a spatial flexure (which I assume was another way of folding normal space)....yes the Disco's spore drive is handy but that makes it seem like they were sitting around waiting for the Disco to show up with said drive instead of using those 900+ years to figure out other alternative means of FTL travel
                    Yes but that assumes Dilithium doesn't still play a key role in those technologies or even that Warp Drive is simply more efficient and most reliable. After all, it is the primary form of travel throughout the entire Galaxy. Even the Borg don't exclusively use Transwarp for example.
                    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by P-90_177 View Post
                      Yes but that assumes Dilithium doesn't still play a key role in those technologies or even that Warp Drive is simply more efficient and most reliable. After all, it is the primary form of travel throughout the entire Galaxy. Even the Borg don't exclusively use Transwarp for example.
                      maybe they just need to go to the Stargate-verse and abscond with some ZPM's

                      I know it would be less efficient but I'm sure enough thermonuclear reactor power (same as what powers the sub-light impulse engines) could generate enough power to operate many FTL technologies (would probably take quite a bit of reactor power, said reactors would probably have to be enormous and nuclear power isn't without its own pitfalls...Chernobyl anyone? )

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Michael cared too much about the burn not because of the incident itself. It was because of its consequences. It caused her beloved Federation fall. She had t know what caused it out of her loved for the federation.

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X