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  1. #1
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    Post Unification III (307)

    Visit the Episode GuideSTAR TREK: DISCOVERY - SEASON THREE
    UNIFICATION III
    EPISODE NUMBER - 307
    A new revelation sends Burnham home to Ni'var — once the planet Vulcan — where Discovery plays host to Vulcans and Romulans in an ancient ritual that stands between them and secrets about the Burn.

    VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >>
    Last edited by GateWorld; November 26th, 2020 at 10:51 PM.

  2. #2
    Captain Gollumpus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unification III (307)

    So, I tried to watch this the first time it was on tonight. I got as far as Saru offering the exec position to Tilly. I went off to make a cup of tea, and didn't make it back to see anything else.


    A few hours later, when it was on again, I was able to see more of the episode. I made several notes, and then discarded them in favour of two points:

    1.) Tilly should not become the exec. She may indeed have tons of ability and potential, and that she's popular, but she does not have the experience. Heck, a better case could be made for Adria to become the exec. This being said, any attempt by Tilly to order Georgiou around actually be amusing.

    2.) The outcome of the Vulcan ritual should have been what the Federation proposed when they first opened communications. Send it broad band, through back channels, via Booker, w/e.

    Federation: "Hi, we think you guys didn't cause that major calamity..."

    Vulcans: "We on Navar(sp?) are still pissed at the Federation and..."

    Federation: "...and we don't care. We are sending you new information on the matter which may change your opinion. Do with it as you will, and please feel free to contact us should you find out anything interesting. Otherwise, we have over half of an episode to fill up. Maybe we'll do some more "Linus can't get his transporter button to work" type of jokes"

    regards,
    D.
    Go for Marty...

  3. #3
    Colonel mad_gater's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unification III (307)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gollumpus View Post
    So, I tried to watch this the first time it was on tonight. I got as far as Saru offering the exec position to Tilly. I went off to make a cup of tea, and didn't make it back to see anything else.


    A few hours later, when it was on again, I was able to see more of the episode. I made several notes, and then discarded them in favour of two points:

    1.) Tilly should not become the exec. She may indeed have tons of ability and potential, and that she's popular, but she does not have the experience. Heck, a better case could be made for Adria to become the exec. This being said, any attempt by Tilly to order Georgiou around actually be amusing.

    2.) The outcome of the Vulcan ritual should have been what the Federation proposed when they first opened communications. Send it broad band, through back channels, via Booker, w/e.

    Federation: "Hi, we think you guys didn't cause that major calamity..."

    Vulcans: "We on Navar(sp?) are still pissed at the Federation and..."

    Federation: "...and we don't care. We are sending you new information on the matter which may change your opinion. Do with it as you will, and please feel free to contact us should you find out anything interesting. Otherwise, we have over half of an episode to fill up. Maybe we'll do some more "Linus can't get his transporter button to work" type of jokes"

    regards,
    D.

  4. #4
    Major General BruTak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unification III (307)

    Very much a "bottle" episode. One that uses just the standing sets, the regular cast and just a couple of guest stars.

    I kind of think this was filmed simultaneously with next week's VFX heavy episode.

    Loved the look of "Pardon?" on Stamets' face when Tilly told him she was the new XO.

    And was it just me? Or did the Orion woman we saw briefly in the "Next week..." teaser look like Katy Perry?

    Long before you and I were born, others beat these benches with their empty cups,
    To the night and its stars, to the here and now with who we are.

    Another sunrise with my sad captains, with who I choose to lose my mind,
    And if it's all we only pass this way but once, what a perfect waste of time.

  5. #5
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unification III (307)

    I kind of figured Tilly was going to get asked after last week.

    Keep in mind that Saru didn't offer her it as a permanent position. He said Acting XO. Now granted, we know there's a fair chance that will become permanent, but as far as Saru is concerned right now he is just needing a temporary solution and he wants to start with a person that he is already mentoring and feels needs to grow in her abilities. I think it also shows absolute faith in his crew that he knows Tilly will be accepted and helped by everybody.

    It's not like there isn't precedent for this. Picard went straight from Helmsman to Captain of the Stargazer. Kirk graduated from the Academy straight to Lieutenant. And Burnham was made Georgiou's first officer straight out of the Vulcan Science Academy. She didn't even attend Starfleet Academy. Arguably Tilly has greater experience now than she did.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  6. #6
    Captain Gollumpus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unification III (307)

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    I kind of figured Tilly was going to get asked after last week.

    Keep in mind that Saru didn't offer her it as a permanent position. He said Acting XO. Now granted, we know there's a fair chance that will become permanent, but as far as Saru is concerned right now he is just needing a temporary solution and he wants to start with a person that he is already mentoring and feels needs to grow in her abilities. I think it also shows absolute faith in his crew that he knows Tilly will be accepted and helped by everybody.

    It's not like there isn't precedent for this. Picard went straight from Helmsman to Captain of the Stargazer. Kirk graduated from the Academy straight to Lieutenant. And Burnham was made Georgiou's first officer straight out of the Vulcan Science Academy. She didn't even attend Starfleet Academy. Arguably Tilly has greater experience now than she did.
    Interesting points.

    While Tilly was appointed as the "acting XO" this seems like a plot device to either make it easier for the character to fall back (in the case of some future failure), or to give her greater significance for promotion (in the case of some future success). For what it's worth, we have seen that the admiral has a "mere" lieutenant as his head of security. This didn't seem so bad in ST:NG, but in this show I would have expected someone of at least lieutenant-commander rank, so we are to assume that this character has significant abilities to rate that position, and that Starfleet is shown to be a meritocracy.

    *** This being said I've got a feeling, way in the back of my ape brain, that the writers are setting Saru up for some kind of failure. It could be from his own command decisions, or from Tilly collapsing under pressures for which she is not yet prepared and that this reflects poorly on him as a captain. I would not be too surprised if there were a new captain of Discovery by the season's end, or as something to be explored over next season (assuming there is a next season) - possibly a new character, or maybe Burnham, with the writers using the, "Starfleet needs a captain who is already familiar with Discovery" excuse. The fact that Discovery is pretty much a future tech ship these days would suggest to me that, outside of a passing familiarity with the spore drive, why does any of the original cast need to be on this ship? ***

    Back to Tilly. While Tilly is intelligent, smart, capable, bright, likeable and bubbly, her general lack of experience makes her a liability as an XO. I could see it if Saru appointed her as his aide de camp (or some such title) so that he could start to delegate more responsibilities to her. This would also give her some real reasons to be on the bridge for certain scenes where her presence makes little to no sense. The writers should also figure out a reason to get her a step up to lieutenant-jg.

    The XO position (acting or otherwise) should have gone to one of the bridge crew characters. They are all senior officers and have the greater experience, AND, they all work on the bridge so they should be more aware of situations which have arisen. Tilly's work area is (normally?) in engineering, or where-ever Stamets hangs out with the spore drive. Will Tilly's position in this capacity be taken over by Adria?

    As to precedence, I'm not really in agreement with any of examples given. I checked with Memory Alpha on these characters' records. Picard is listed as being the helmsman on the Stargazer, but he was also a lieutenant-commander in rank (as with Data). While he was appointed "captain" of the Stargazer, it is suggested that he may have only been promoted to the rank of full commander to go along with the captaincy, and later he became an actual captain in rank. In any event, he was of higher rank, and had far more experience in command than does Tilly.

    Kirk may have been upped to a lieutenant (of some grade), but that is still a long way off from being named the XO of a starship. Kirk was not promoted to the rank of captain until around 10 years after he graduated from the academy.

    Burnham was not named Georgiou's first officer until she had been on Discovery for around 7 - 8 years. She was started as a xenobiologist (which we saw her working in that capacity in season one) and worked her way up to the XO position.

    Another example which comes to mind (albeit not a perfect example) was the instance in ST:NG "The Arsenal of Freedom", where Geordi LaForge (as a lieutenat-jg) was put in temporary command of the Enterprise-D. He was the ranking officer left on the bridge in the absence of Picard, Riker and Data, so he got the job. This was the episode where a higher ranked lieutenant, from down in engineering, was pressuring LaForge to hand over command responsibilities. LaForge did a great job in protecting the ship and in helping to save the the members of the away missions. By the following year, LaForge had been promoted to full lieutenant and was put in charge of engineering, and later to lieutenant-commander.

    regards,
    D.
    Last edited by Gollumpus; November 27th, 2020 at 08:01 PM. Reason: spelling
    Go for Marty...

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Unification III (307)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gollumpus View Post
    Interesting points.

    While Tilly was appointed as the "acting XO" this seems like a plot device to either make it easier for the character to fall back (in the case of some future failure), or to give her greater significance for promotion (in the case of some future success). For what it's worth, we have seen that the admiral has a "mere" lieutenant as his head of security. This didn't seem so bad in ST:NG, but in this show I would have expected someone of at least lieutenant-commander rank, so we are to assume that this character has significant abilities to rate that position, and that Starfleet is shown to be a meritocracy.

    *** This being said I've got a feeling, way in the back of my ape brain, that the writers are setting Saru up for some kind of failure. It could be from his own command decisions, or from Tilly collapsing under pressures for which she is not yet prepared and that this reflects poorly on him as a captain. I would not be too surprised if there were a new captain of Discovery by the season's end, or as something to be explored over next season (assuming there is a next season) - possibly a new character, or maybe Burnham, with the writers using the, "Starfleet needs a captain who is already familiar with Discovery" excuse. The fact that Discovery is pretty much a future tech ship these days would suggest to me that, outside of a passing familiarity with the spore drive, why does any of the original cast need to be on this ship? ***

    Back to Tilly. While Tilly is intelligent, smart, capable, bright, likeable and bubbly, her general lack of experience makes her a liability as an XO. I could see it if Saru appointed her as his aide de camp (or some such title) so that he could start to delegate more responsibilities to her. This would also give her some real reasons to be on the bridge for certain scenes where her presence makes little to no sense. The writers should also figure out a reason to get her a step up to lieutenant-jg.

    The XO position (acting or otherwise) should have gone to one of the bridge crew characters. They are all senior officers and have the greater experience, AND, they all work on the bridge so they should be more aware of situations which have arisen. Tilly's work area is (normally?) in engineering, or where-ever Stamets hangs out with the spore drive. Will Tilly's position in this capacity be taken over by Adria?

    As to precedence, I'm not really in agreement with any of examples given. I checked with Memory Alpha on these characters' records. Picard is listed as being the helmsman on the Stargazer, but he was also a lieutenant-commander in rank (as with Data). While he was appointed "captain" of the Stargazer, it is suggested that he may have only been promoted to the rank of full commander to go along with the captaincy, and later he became an actual captain in rank. In any event, he was of higher rank, and had far more experience in command than does Tilly.

    Kirk may have been upped to a lieutenant (of some grade), but that is still a long way off from being named the XO of a starship. Kirk was not promoted to the rank of captain until around 10 years after he graduated from the academy.

    Burnham was not named Georgiou's first officer until she had been on Discovery for around 7 - 8 years. She was started as a xenobiologist (which we saw her working in that capacity in season one) and worked her way up to the XO position.

    Another example which comes to mind (albeit not a perfect example) was the instance in ST:NG "The Arsenal of Freedom", where Geordi LaForge (as a lieutenat-jg) was put in temporary command of the Enterprise-D. He was the ranking officer left on the bridge in the absence of Picard, Riker and Data, so he got the job. This was the episode where a higher ranked lieutenant, from down in engineering, was pressuring LaForge to hand over command responsibilities. LaForge did a great job in protecting the ship and in helping to save the the members of the away missions. By the following year, LaForge had been promoted to full lieutenant and was put in charge of engineering, and later to lieutenant-commander.

    regards,
    D.
    Fair points. Not disagreeing in general but I can still see why Saru came to his decision. We've seen Tilly have a particular wisdom of her own. Plus the whole point of the Command Training Program is to get young officers ready for Command. It is an advanced track, and while Tilly may not have completed it it is still going to have given her some vital knowledge and experience. I admit it would have been good to see her having one of those Bridge Shadowing sessions we see in season 2 actually go well and the way it was intended without May getting in her way but we can infer that she probably got back to that somewhere between missions.

    I have no doubt this is going to be a point that will be addressed in show as well. It's clear that not only Tilly has doubts but Stamets too. Arguably the person she relies the most on after Saru and Burnham (Probably more than Burnham now tbf.) Stamets and the Bridge staff may have given their blessing in the end, but I think that was more out of a shared love for Tilly than a professional understanding of what it'll be like. It'll come back up and it'll show Tilly screwing up and struggling and I honestly would not be surprised if by the end of the season when Burnham has finished her arc that she will return to being First Officer OR we'll have a new character introduced in season 4 who will fill the role in much the same way that the first two seasons had different captains.

    Tilly is an imperfect solution to a problem. Saru arguably needs his best people where they are while the crew transitions to being in the 32nd Century. Discovery's crew is relatively small and vulnerable, especially after the final battle with Control. A large proportion of the crew are scientists and engineers who are not on the command track like Stamets and Reno, who may be commanders but they are not trained in Bridge command in any way shape or form.

    Now all that being said.

    If it were me.

    It'd be Linus.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  8. #8
    Captain Gollumpus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unification III (307)

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    Fair points. Not disagreeing in general but I can still see why Saru came to his decision. We've seen Tilly have a particular wisdom of her own. Plus the whole point of the Command Training Program is to get young officers ready for Command. It is an advanced track, and while Tilly may not have completed it it is still going to have given her some vital knowledge and experience. I admit it would have been good to see her having one of those Bridge Shadowing sessions we see in season 2 actually go well and the way it was intended without May getting in her way but we can infer that she probably got back to that somewhere between missions.

    I have no doubt this is going to be a point that will be addressed in show as well. It's clear that not only Tilly has doubts but Stamets too. Arguably the person she relies the most on after Saru and Burnham (Probably more than Burnham now tbf.) Stamets and the Bridge staff may have given their blessing in the end, but I think that was more out of a shared love for Tilly than a professional understanding of what it'll be like. It'll come back up and it'll show Tilly screwing up and struggling and I honestly would not be surprised if by the end of the season when Burnham has finished her arc that she will return to being First Officer OR we'll have a new character introduced in season 4 who will fill the role in much the same way that the first two seasons had different captains.

    Tilly is an imperfect solution to a problem. Saru arguably needs his best people where they are while the crew transitions to being in the 32nd Century. Discovery's crew is relatively small and vulnerable, especially after the final battle with Control. A large proportion of the crew are scientists and engineers who are not on the command track like Stamets and Reno, who may be commanders but they are not trained in Bridge command in any way shape or form.

    Now all that being said.

    If it were me.

    It'd be Linus.
    Well, a good first officer is supposed to know their way around the ship...

    regards,
    D.
    Go for Marty...

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Unification III (307)

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    Fair points. Not disagreeing in general but I can still see why Saru came to his decision. We've seen Tilly have a particular wisdom of her own. Plus the whole point of the Command Training Program is to get young officers ready for Command. It is an advanced track, and while Tilly may not have completed it it is still going to have given her some vital knowledge and experience. I admit it would have been good to see her having one of those Bridge Shadowing sessions we see in season 2 actually go well and the way it was intended without May getting in her way but we can infer that she probably got back to that somewhere between missions.

    I have no doubt this is going to be a point that will be addressed in show as well. It's clear that not only Tilly has doubts but Stamets too. Arguably the person she relies the most on after Saru and Burnham (Probably more than Burnham now tbf.) Stamets and the Bridge staff may have given their blessing in the end, but I think that was more out of a shared love for Tilly than a professional understanding of what it'll be like. It'll come back up and it'll show Tilly screwing up and struggling and I honestly would not be surprised if by the end of the season when Burnham has finished her arc that she will return to being First Officer OR we'll have a new character introduced in season 4 who will fill the role in much the same way that the first two seasons had different captains.

    Tilly is an imperfect solution to a problem. Saru arguably needs his best people where they are while the crew transitions to being in the 32nd Century. Discovery's crew is relatively small and vulnerable, especially after the final battle with Control. A large proportion of the crew are scientists and engineers who are not on the command track like Stamets and Reno, who may be commanders but they are not trained in Bridge command in any way shape or form.

    Now all that being said.

    If it were me.

    It'd be Linus.
    Maybe they should do a music video of Linus's transporter mishaps set to music from "Peanuts"

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