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  1. #1
    Site Admin GateWorld's Avatar
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    Post Die Trying (305)

    Visit the Episode GuideSTAR TREK: DISCOVERY - SEASON THREE
    DIE TRYING
    EPISODE NUMBER - 305
    Discovery arrives at Starfleet's thirty-second-century headquarters, and Burnham seeks a way to prove themselves to an Admiral who remains suspicious of them — and intent on reassigning the crew.

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    Last edited by GateWorld; November 14th, 2020 at 10:08 PM.

  2. #2
    Major General BruTak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Die Trying (305)

    Wow... Quite a lot to unpack in this episode.

    USS Nog (Eisenberg-class no less).

    USS Voyager NCC 74656-J.

    David Cronenberg!

    The unflappable Jett Reno!

    Tillybabble!

    Hmm, seems like Detmer's PTSD isn't quite as under control as we thought.

    The grabby plant on the seed bank ship! Looked to be of the same species as Beauregard/Gertrude, Mr. Sulu's carnivorous plant from "The Man Trap".

    And what's wrong with Georgiou?

    Long before you and I were born, others beat these benches with their empty cups,
    To the night and its stars, to the here and now with who we are.

    Another sunrise with my sad captains, with who I choose to lose my mind,
    And if it's all we only pass this way but once, what a perfect waste of time.

  3. #3
    Colonel Teddybrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Die Trying (305)

    Seems they're starting to feed in some interesting questions... What is this music? What's up with Georgiou? And of course the continued what is the burn or who caused it?

  4. #4
    Major General BruTak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Die Trying (305)

    Oh! I'd forgotten about the mysterious music.

    Long before you and I were born, others beat these benches with their empty cups,
    To the night and its stars, to the here and now with who we are.

    Another sunrise with my sad captains, with who I choose to lose my mind,
    And if it's all we only pass this way but once, what a perfect waste of time.

  5. #5
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Die Trying (305)

    Quote Originally Posted by BruTak View Post
    Wow... Quite a lot to unpack in this episode.

    USS Nog (Eisenberg-class no less).

    USS Voyager NCC 74656-J.

    David Cronenberg!

    The unflappable Jett Reno!

    Tillybabble!

    Hmm, seems like Detmer's PTSD isn't quite as under control as we thought.

    The grabby plant on the seed bank ship! Looked to be of the same species as Beauregard/Gertrude, Mr. Sulu's carnivorous plant from "The Man Trap".

    And what's wrong with Georgiou?
    Georgiou I think is just in shock. There could be something more to it, but she's been operating all this as though she's just hoping universes and timeframes just for fun and she'll help out Disco because she has that connection with Burnham. But I think her joy at watching Control die in the last season was a clear indication of her true mindset. She still likes power and though she may not be actively searching for a way to gain what she has lost yet I think in the back of her mind it was always there that she'd one day go back to the Mirror Universe and be Emperor again or that she'd somehow take over the Federation. But she's been slapped in the face that the Mirror Universe was just always going to collapse, something which she always predicted would happen to the Federation because of what she sees as weakness in it.

    That being said it is possible command did something to her. I don't entirely trust this Starfleet yet. But given Nahn's story about missing home, I think Georgiou is being set up as the other side of that.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  6. #6
    Major General BruTak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Die Trying (305)

    There's a theory going round that David Cronenberg's character is the head of Section 31, and this is laying some of the groundwork for the upcoming Section 31 series.

    Long before you and I were born, others beat these benches with their empty cups,
    To the night and its stars, to the here and now with who we are.

    Another sunrise with my sad captains, with who I choose to lose my mind,
    And if it's all we only pass this way but once, what a perfect waste of time.

  7. #7
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Die Trying (305)

    The thought did occur. It would make a lot of sense.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  8. #8
    Major General BruTak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Die Trying (305)

    I had a thought as to why Discovery's tech level appears to be higher than the Enterprise's.

    Enterprise is a front line starship. Designed for extended five year missions of exploration, First Contact situations and so on, out of range of support for extended periods of time.
    So wouldn't it make sense that its equipment be easy to repair while in the field?

    Discovery on the other hand, is a dedicated science ship with a smaller crew. Not meant to be out of contact with the nearest Starbase for any length of time.

    Long before you and I were born, others beat these benches with their empty cups,
    To the night and its stars, to the here and now with who we are.

    Another sunrise with my sad captains, with who I choose to lose my mind,
    And if it's all we only pass this way but once, what a perfect waste of time.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Die Trying (305)

    Quote Originally Posted by BruTak View Post
    I had a thought as to why Discovery's tech level appears to be higher than the Enterprise's.

    Enterprise is a front line starship. Designed for extended five year missions of exploration, First Contact situations and so on, out of range of support for extended periods of time.
    So wouldn't it make sense that its equipment be easy to repair while in the field?

    Discovery on the other hand, is a dedicated science ship with a smaller crew. Not meant to be out of contact with the nearest Starbase for any length of time.

    It makes sense that starship is packed with the most latest tech just to discover new space and can keep up with everything the new space throw at them.
    Discovery is science ship so it is more about one or two scientific research like this ship was mainly focused on mushroom jump technology and there for less crew too.

    Now for the episode.
    I cant stand how arrogant this Burnham is and how it's expected for her to go always her way in everything you see on the screen. Georgiou can blink her eyes and the hologram tech crashes is like a major flaw and if that was existing in it's baby steps 930 years ago then how come it is still for the future. How cant they have not fix this bug that makes no sense.

    Never mind that all the future characters look really annoying dumb. Pretty much it's surprise they all even exist cause they cant do anything for there own. In 4th episode the earth people were so dumb not to know that there enemy was humans from Saturn that they are so dumb and there technology is so weak that they cant even control whats going on in there own star system. While have full planet shield tech and some nice firepower but the operating staff is just dumb as a nail. Now in there starfleet or federation what ever the platform they were in were even dumber people.

    Talking about time traveling is banned but dont do anything about it and great the discovery captain and the arrogant Mary Sue on there main bridge. They should of all landed in the jail for time traveling like thats something every culture would do in that point as a serious threat. Nope they were all on red carpet and then kiss the foot of Burnham and thank her for talking down on them and then later let her show how it is done cause they are 930 years in the future and cant manage anything for there own anymore.

    Sucks that there is no sci fi show running at the moment so only thing to watch is this thing. Even tough i have like 3 shows to watch in a week i still dont find time to watch this discovery and well the show isnt that good too that i want to watch it.

    I dont like much of the show His Dark Matter but i still wait to see next episode of it more then i wait for star trek. Or The madalorean show that is my 3rd show i like in a week.
    sorry about my lack of language skills as it is not my daily language and have learned it by my self as not from any help of others or a school

  10. #10
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Die Trying (305)

    Quote Originally Posted by lopo30 View Post
    Talking about time traveling is banned but dont do anything about it and great the discovery captain and the arrogant Mary Sue on there main bridge. They should of all landed in the jail for time traveling like thats something every culture would do in that point as a serious threat. Nope they were all on red carpet and then kiss the foot of Burnham and thank her for talking down on them and then later let her show how it is done cause they are 930 years in the future and cant manage anything for there own anymore.
    They traveled from a period where time travel wasn't outlawed to advert a civilization ending disaster, as confirmed by their computer logs, and offered their services and the services of their insta-travel ship to a Federation with severely limited resources. The Discovery's crew lacks the ability or intent to continue time traveling and their spore drive can, at present, only be operated by one of their crew who can hardly do his job from prison or is likely to be willing to help if every other member save him is imprisoned.

    I don't see how punishing them is wise or even conscionable. You could certainly make a case for how it should have taken the Federation longer to trust the Discovery and its crew. The writers are obviously fast tracking things to get the story where they want it to go, but it could have used a different storytelling technique like a time jump to accomplish their goals, so that's a fair critique. However, imprisoning them is akin to imprisoning a group of people from a non-warp world for using technology that they obtained from a warp capable visitor to make contact with the Federation. It's one thing for the Federation and their allies to agree to these types of embargoes. It's another to enforce them by jailing third-parties who have no knowledge of said agreement and who the agreement was, in large part, designed to protect.
    Last edited by Xaeden; November 15th, 2020 at 09:50 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Die Trying (305)

    Quote Originally Posted by BruTak View Post
    I had a thought as to why Discovery's tech level appears to be higher than the Enterprise's.

    Enterprise is a front line starship. Designed for extended five year missions of exploration, First Contact situations and so on, out of range of support for extended periods of time.
    So wouldn't it make sense that its equipment be easy to repair while in the field?

    Discovery on the other hand, is a dedicated science ship with a smaller crew. Not meant to be out of contact with the nearest Starbase for any length of time.
    Enterprise is also a decade older than Discovery too. But yes.

    What people often seem to forget about Starfleet ships is that much like in real life they are all built with different specifications and needs in minds so their capabilities will end up being vastly different. Constitution Class ships are designed for the big, long five year missions with no knowledge of what they are going to find and out of touch with most of the fleet, so they are built to be rugged, multi-role and require a lot of surplus energy and cargo space to accommodate the needs of the crew. The reason for the crew being relatively large (200+ in DSC but Kirk describes being responsible for 600 souls in TOS) is because that humans don't tend to handle isolation very well. So a large crew with maybe less space but with a high rotation of duties will suit the human condition quite well.

    Discovery, as you say is science vessel. Saru points out in season one that the ship was able to handle up to "300 discreet scientific missions". It's not really described what that really means but his tone and the context seems to imply that he means they can run that many experiments, studies and research all at once. Indeed, the fact that Disco is a dedicated Science ship is a key point in much of the show, including why Pike was given command to track down the red bursts. Itæs understandable that it is packed with the best tech starfleet could cram into it, even though I suspect the Discovery and the Glenn actually look quite a bit different from the standard Crossfield class.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  12. #12
    Captain Gollumpus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Die Trying (305)

    The admiral, wanting to shift at least a portion of the Discovery crew around, was a "So what?" moment. It makes sense to transfer some people out for intensive re-training while the ship is undergoing a re-fit. Those moved out could (at least temporarily) be replaced by some folks from the future Fed. Further, for purposes of the show, there's something like a dozen faces that people care about, so do you really care if "Crewman Number Six" gets moved off the ship, if for only a short while if not forever? Heck, that could even make a semi-okay hook for a future episode where some former Discovery crew members become part of something like the Maquis...

    Georgiou, and perhaps Adira should be off the ship for at least a few episodes worth of time for debriefing and the like. Adira should be scrutinized because there's (potentially) a whole lot of Star Fleet info rattling around in there, and Georgiou it's mostly because she's Georgiou.

    If nothing else, Discovery shouldn't have had just a few extra security guards idling around, enough to be seen in certain scenes here and there, but really, what was their purpose outside of supposedly making sure that Discovery doesn't do "something". There should have have been a couple of dozen future Feds looking at the current tech (or even a very obvious 3 or 4), and what would be needed for the upgrades and just how do you integrate current tech into a (almost) 1,000 yr old ship... other than likely doing a, "Hey gang, let's put on a show!" type of montage (and they don't even have a Mickey Rooney or Judy Garland to get it off the ground).

    Also, having a "local guide" would be something useful to a ship moving through the "uncharted waters" of the political/military future space.

    Anyhoo, something which was bugging me about the portion of this episode I did see was, why couldn't Discovery have the access codes to the seed vault before they left the Starfleet base?

    If this base was so important, wouldn't the access codes be available in some database? Or perhaps they would be available from one of the several planets who had provided a previous caretaker. And even if we are talking about acquiring a personal code from a current caretaker being the problem, why wouldn't there be some sort of override which could be used in the event of an emergency?

    What if the current steward family were all wiped out, as indeed pretty much happened in this episode? Who gives the new steward(s), who are potentially from some different world, the current codes and secret handshake? Did they just leave a key under a brick by the front door? From how it looks (to me), for over a 1,000 yrs they have never had a problem, so I guess I'm just a worry wart.

    regards,
    D.

    PS - and yet another episode where Burnham gets pushed into filling a role which could have/should have been filled by a different member of the crew...
    Last edited by Gollumpus; November 24th, 2020 at 10:16 PM.
    Go for Marty...

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