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  1. #1
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    Default Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    Saw this news article today, saying that Sawyer was fired from The Flash because of racist & sexist tweets. They were all in the past, evidently, but maybe there was other stuff going on and this was the last straw.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/enter...er/5320699002/

    To be honest, he hasn't contributed much to the show lately, so I don't think it will make much of a difference.

  2. #2
    Air Force Chief of Staff Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    The article on NBC stated it were texts/tweets from 2009 and 2014, and he had since changed his stance.

    I'm afraid to say that Baby Giraffe was one of the main reasons I still watched The Flash. Barry gets on my nerves and Ralph and others made it still worthy to watch it.

    The internet never forgets (unless you make it forget -- which we have laws for) so let this be a lesson that what you said in the past will most likely come back to haunt you in the present, even when you have changed your stance since that time.

    Then again... didn't they villify James Gunn a year or so ago, for comments he made and look where he's now...
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  3. #3
    Major General VampyreWraith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    For some reason, I can never really believe it when people say their feelings have changed on a topic, especially when they have a high profile job and their comments are controversial. It always comes across more like they're sorry other people didn't find their "jokes" funny and they got in trouble for them.

    I honestly have never liked James Gunn or his movies, including Gaurdians of the Galaxy (watched the first one, didn't care to watch the second one, didn't really feel like i missed out on anything too important). Even if I were to accidentally watch a movie he directed, at least I would have to actually see him in it and be reminded of what he said. If I were Disney I wouldn't have rehired a guy who "joked" about molesting children, but that's just me.

  4. #4
    Air Force Chief of Staff Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    Quote Originally Posted by VampyreWraith View Post
    For some reason, I can never really believe it when people say their feelings have changed on a topic, especially when they have a high profile job and their comments are controversial. It always comes across more like they're sorry other people didn't find their "jokes" funny and they got in trouble for them.
    So, you never did anything stupid in your younger years that, when you look back at it now, make you ashamed of your behavior or point the finger at yourself saying, "Goddess, what was I stupid ass for doing that or saying this?".

    Unless, there's more to it, I have no issues giving people a second chance.

    If we don't, we're just doomed to fail... It's hypocritical of us to demand better of others, than we would do of ourselves.

    What is that line in the bible again... (not well versed on bible stuff) ...he who is without sin cast the first stone... that sorta comes to mind here.
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  5. #5
    Major General VampyreWraith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    So, you never did anything stupid in your younger years that, when you look back at it now, make you ashamed of your behavior or point the finger at yourself saying, "Goddess, what was I stupid ass for doing that or saying this?".

    Unless, there's more to it, I have no issues giving people a second chance.

    If we don't, we're just doomed to fail... It's hypocritical of us to demand better of others, than we would do of ourselves.

    What is that line in the bible again... (not well versed on bible stuff) ...he who is without sin cast the first stone... that sorta comes to mind here.
    It wasn't one or two comments, there were a lot of them over a long period of time. Showing that he held these beliefs or thought it was OK to say that sort of stuff for a long time as an adult, not a kid who didn't know better. If someone made a few off jokes a decade ago or even 5 yrs ago, and then they stopped doing so because they realized it was wrong or whatever, that's one thing. But after a long period of time of saying that kind of stuff, it's just as likely that someone told him, "you should probably stop saying that sort of stuff publicly because you're going to get in trouble for it" than him actually changing his feelings about saying that sort of stuff. It could be either or.

    I don't know the how long a period of time it was that James Gunn spent making jokes about molesting children and saying other offensive things, but there were a lot of them. I'm not really a fan of the humor in his movies, so I'm not surprised that he thought jokes about molesting children would be funny.

  6. #6
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    I don't watch The Flash, and until now I've never heard of Hartley Sawyer, so I don't have an axe to grind.

    But I gotta say, that's a hell of a lousy news article. It doesn't tell you what he said. All it tells you that the writers of the article think what he said was bad. Who the hell cares what they think?

    (possibly it's in the blanked out instagram links, but I'm not going to join a social network to make up for bad reporting)

    Back in the dark ages, when news meant printing the news, rather than pushing an agenda, one of the key points of the profession was to give the "who, what, when, why and where" of something in the first paragraph.

    And, in addition, they're going back years. What is considered "acceptable" is changing almost daily and has been for a while. Without knowing exactly what he is accused of saying, I'm gonna give the guy the benefit of the doubt and say that he's being excoriated for saying something that may have been acceptable then by the standards of the day, and everyone is just pushing each other out of the way to see who can jump on the P.C. bandwagon fastest. I call that a foul.
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  7. #7
    Major General VampyreWraith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    The article I read had a link to screenshots of his tweets. Only screenshots are available since he deleted his Twitter account after this all blew up, (though I think since I read it last night, the Twitter user with the screenshots that were linked to made their account private).
    Here's another article that I found today, with a link to reddit with what he said.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultas...g-past-tweets/

  8. #8
    The Monitor jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    I'm kind of in the middle with this one. I don't think it's right to punish a person for what they said 10 years ago. I'd more inclined to see what think now. At the same time, I understand the optics with all the protesting going on
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    Jelgate is right

  9. #9
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    Quote Originally Posted by VampyreWraith View Post
    The article I read had a link to screenshots of his tweets. Only screenshots are available since he deleted his Twitter account after this all blew up, (though I think since I read it last night, the Twitter user with the screenshots that were linked to made their account private).
    Here's another article that I found today, with a link to reddit with what he said.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultas...g-past-tweets/
    I don't know what may have been there, all I saw was large gray-ish squares with links below them "learn more on instagram" or some such rot.

    I'm sorry, but if you're writing an article for a publication, and are so poor a writer that you don't include the details directly in the article, I don't give a rat's fanny about whatever you're saying. You're obviously incompetent.

    And I'm not even going to comment further about his being fired. All it would accomplish is my post being censored because of my views.
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  10. #10
    Major General VampyreWraith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    On Forbes or the reddit link in the article? I can still see the article I linked to and I can still see the stuff posted on reddit. Reddit doesn't seem to have the screen shots either though, since the user who tweeted them on Twitter made it private. The first post does give a few highlights. I noticed most of the news sites are quoting the more tame things he's said. There are worse things that he's said that some entertainment news places might not want on their site. There's some violence towards women in the tweets. It's not just tweets calling a woman a bad word or something along those lines.

  11. #11
    Air Force Chief of Staff Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    There's an article about Grant giving his opinion on the matter which posted the tweets as text.

    Hartley went to town with a couple of things. What he does in his private life -- however private that still is as an actor -- is his business.

    Yes, the tweets are -- to put it mildly* -- derogative of the female sex, and how he would deal with them.
    And then some acknowledgments of saying something that would probably be seen as racist -- however what that something is, is not mentioned and I don't know whether he did mention it either.

    * sugarcoating cause this is a PG-13 forum, but I don't think I have to draw any pictures here.

    He just got caught -- tough on him.

    May not like what he wrote, but Ralph will be missed on The Flash. For me that's a dealbreaker to continue watching that show.

    Same as JK Rowling -- may not like what she has to say these days, but that's not going to make stop me reading her books. She can have her opinions. I have mine.

    Or Adam Baldwin -- Jayne in Firefly -- won't like Jayne any less while Adam has most certainly lost the plot. As did Kevin Sorbo and Dean Cain.
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  12. #12
    Major General VampyreWraith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    To me, once you post something on a public place like Twitter, it's no longer private. If anyone wants to keep their personal business private, they don't post about it on social media, that's basically the opposite of private.
    It wasn't like someone stole his phone and posted his private texts.
    I appreciate actors/entertainers who aren't on social media posting about every aspect of their personal life. I think it's OK if someone wants to announce their marriage or the birth of a child with their fans, or to bring attention to a cause or problem. That sort of think can be nice/ really good. If they want to share intimate details about every aspect of their relationships, they can share that too, but it's no longer private once they do that, and sometimes I think the sharing goes a bit too far, to the point where it starts to affect how I see their work.

    I hope he wasn't actually being serious about any of the things he said, the tweets didn't sound like he was talking about his actual personal life, but saying stuff about doing violent things to women to be shocking. The one about the homeless women and the other one mentioning a burlap sack were a bit disturbing, and I'm having a hard time trying to figure out a context in which those specific tweets (along with a few others) would be funny.

    I feel bad for fans of the character who enjoyed his performance. I don't think fans of an actor or writer need to or should stop liking their work if they still enjoy it. Some people, though, may not be able to view that work in the same way and there's nothing wrong with that either imo.

  13. #13
    Air Force Chief of Staff Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    Quote Originally Posted by VampyreWraith View Post
    To me, once you post something on a public place like Twitter, it's no longer private. If anyone wants to keep their personal business private, they don't post about it on social media, that's basically the opposite of private.
    This is what people sometimes forget. Even with accounts which are set to "private".

    It's something that's touched upon in job-searching training.
    Future employers will google you, and they better not find you do stupid things or saying things that don't stroke with the company's creed. You'll be out before you can say, "But...".

    My social media accounts are not linked to my first name, or last name (I have 2 convenient middle names). Work/life separated. Even my friends can't find my facebook account if I don't want them to find it.

    Quote Originally Posted by VampyreWraith View Post
    I hope he wasn't actually being serious about any of the things he said, the tweets didn't sound like he was talking about his actual personal life, but saying stuff about doing violent things to women to be shocking. The one about the homeless women and the other one mentioning a burlap sack were a bit disturbing, and I'm having a hard time trying to figure out a context in which those specific tweets (along with a few others) would be funny.
    There wouldn't be any situation where these would be considered funny... but again... who was he with when he made those comments. What were they doing?

    Doesn't make it better, but the context is lost nonetheless...

    Quote Originally Posted by VampyreWraith View Post
    I feel bad for fans of the character who enjoyed his performance. I don't think fans of an actor or writer need to or should stop liking their work if they still enjoy it. Some people, though, may not be able to view that work in the same way and there's nothing wrong with that either imo.
    Hindsight is 20/20, no?

    I don't know.
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    How about this? Social networking and such should be completely separate from work and "real life" concerns.

    If an actor says something stupid on twitterbook or something, fine. If his fans don't like it, they can stop watching him. But he shouldn't be subject to getting fired because he expressed a non politically correct opinion (And yes, political correctness is how this crap is defined).

    By the same token, employers should not be allowed to even look at a candidate's social media. Period. It has no relation whatsoever to their ability to do the job.

    What we as a society are doing is throwing a right that many people fought and died for, freedom of speech down the toilet.
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  15. #15
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    How about this? Social networking and such should be completely separate from work and "real life" concerns.

    If an actor says something stupid on twitterbook or something, fine. If his fans don't like it, they can stop watching him. But he shouldn't be subject to getting fired because he expressed a non politically correct opinion (And yes, political correctness is how this crap is defined).

    By the same token, employers should not be allowed to even look at a candidate's social media. Period. It has no relation whatsoever to their ability to do the job.

    What we as a society are doing is throwing a right that many people fought and died for, freedom of speech down the toilet.
    I'm torn about this in a regular 9 to 5 job. One the one hand as an employee I don't particularly like the idea of a potential employer checking my account. My FB account for example is very anti-Brexit, pro-socialist, pro-LGBT, pro-ANTIFA. So if someone who is looking to hire me sees that and is not of that political bent I am probably not getting the job. On the other hand, if I am an employer I would want to know if my potential candidate is racist, sexist or otherwise prejudiced, and honestly I do believe that if people treated the internet the same way they treat presenting themselves in real life the world would be a better place. There are too many people in the world who pretend to be all sweetness and light in real life but as soon as they get online they are just hate-filled bullies.

    That being said, regardless of regular day to day, being in the public eye is a very different animal. If you are an actor or a journalist or PR I think you need to very much be careful about what you say and that people should hold you to account even if it goes back a fair ways. I am a writer, and I want to be published and I want to be well known one of these days (fingers crossed, turn around three times and spit and curse) so with that in mind I am very careful about what I post. Granted, keeping in mind all of what I mentioned about my account above, it isn't exactly unusual for writers to be vocal socialists anyway so I feel pretty safe in that regard. But if I see a joke that I find funny, I will always give it a second glance before retweeting or sharing just on the off chance that someone might find it offensive. And I'm happy to do that, because, frankly, I don't want to offend anyone. And generally speaking if I find out a joke is offensive to someone I generally don't find it funny afterwards.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  16. #16
    Air Force Chief of Staff Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    Being in the public eye carries responsibilities, we in the private eye don't have to worry about too much.

    We can be our best selves for ourselves and others, without being underneath a constant microscope.
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  17. #17
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    I'm torn about this in a regular 9 to 5 job. One the one hand as an employee I don't particularly like the idea of a potential employer checking my account. My FB account for example is very anti-Brexit, pro-socialist, pro-LGBT, pro-ANTIFA. So if someone who is looking to hire me sees that and is not of that political bent I am probably not getting the job. On the other hand, if I am an employer I would want to know if my potential candidate is racist, sexist or otherwise prejudiced, and honestly I do believe that if people treated the internet the same way they treat presenting themselves in real life the world would be a better place. There are too many people in the world who pretend to be all sweetness and light in real life but as soon as they get online they are just hate-filled bullies.
    I lost a job I had for 15 years (nothing political, the employer was stupid and is now bankrupt), so before the CV hit, I had applied for a few jobs. Some wanted my social networking login info so they could snoop around. I flat out told them to go to hell.
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  18. #18
    Air Force Chief of Staff Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    Some wanted my social networking login info so they could snoop around. I flat out told them to go to hell.
    Oh hell no... they can't do that.
    They can google all they like, but that's as far as it can go.

    Unless your sister gets hired at the airport and the federal law enforcement unit is required to do a background check as part of the vetting progress, then google won't cut it.
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    Oh hell no... they can't do that.
    They can google all they like, but that's as far as it can go.

    Unless your sister gets hired at the airport and the federal law enforcement unit is required to do a background check as part of the vetting progress, then google won't cut it.
    Even in that example, they don't ask for my social media account names or links. I carry myself online much more conservative than I do in real life. The only things I've done is removed some pictures I took during college (while I was in college), where I didn't think they were funny or gave proper context.

    Nothing targeted to anyone, but my own self image. One picture had me in a cabinet looking out as I was trying to me sneaky. I didn't have a shirt on, so I thought it might convey that I was not dressed.

    Another picture was from prom, I removed it upon request from my date, who later came out as gay and didn't want that picture of us in formal.

    Even then. ALL of my accounts are private aside from twitter, cause twitter.

  20. #20
    Major General VampyreWraith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hartley Sawyer (Elongated Man) Fired from The Flash

    The only social media account that has my real name is Facebook. I have a lot of privacy settings turned on to the point that I actually have to send people a link to my profile for people to find me. I don't post much on Facebook and I don't post very often. What's there is mainly pictures of my kids, my dogs and cats, and some dog/cat rescue stuff because I volunteer for one of those (I've actually searched for applicants who were trying to foster or adopt
    a dog/cat on social media and Google to make sure they hadnt gotten in trouble for animal abuse or had any pictures or comments about abusing animals). I have a Twitter account, but it doesn't have my real name attached to it and I mainly to use it to read other people's tweets now.

    I wouldn't give a potential employer my password so that they could log into my account, but maybe I'd log in and let them browse, though I think just viewing what I make publicly viewable should be enough, anything more j it St seems like an invasion of privacy.

    The way I act in real life is basically the way I act online. I'm a pretty quiet/shy person most of the time and I'm not really good at pretending to be someone I'm not. I have social anxiety and that doesn't go away when I'm interacting online, so it's all the same and I'm the same.
    Last edited by VampyreWraith; June 10th, 2020 at 03:38 PM. Reason: Forgot to mention my cats lol :P

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