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  1. #1
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    Default Rings on Atlantis

    Does Atlantis have rings?
    And if not why not?

  2. #2
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rings on Atlantis

    We've never seen them on Atlantis or any Ancient battleship. Instead, Atlantis has only been shown to have those teleporter rooms. Rings are 50 million+ year old technology, so it's possible that teleporter rooms are their modern replacement and ships also have one that can connect with one or more of the rooms on Atlantis.

    It's also possible that teleporter rooms are separate technology designed only for internal use, and we've never seen rings because they were located in a damaged section of the city or because they were removed. It could be that the Ancients were worried that the Wraith would use them to get passed their defenses, so they discontinued them. Look at how often it led to enemy intrusions for the Goa'uld, even when they started password locking some of them. The Wraith captured some Ancient battleships and who knows what else, so I think it's fair to say they would've had rings to play around with if they were still in use 10,000 years ago. They're adept at creating viruses and they cracked Mckay's gate bridge, so I don't doubt they could crack an encrypted transport ring. Additionally, the Wraith have a teleporter room of their own (there was one in the Wraith outpost in "Reunion"), so the technology is familiar to them.

    This, by the way, made me think it would've been interesting if, in an episode, it was revealed that the Wraith still had an old ring transporter "in storage" and used it to get aboard the Daedalus.
    Last edited by Xaeden; August 2nd, 2020 at 05:19 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Rings on Atlantis

    Thanks Xaeden. That's interesting. I suspected I had not seen them in any episode but wasn't sure without doing a re-watch.

    I guess it's a possibility that they removed them from their tech in Pegasus to prevent the Wraith exploiting them. Especially as they have the internal transporters which do most of the same job for point-to-point transport around Atlantis. The absence from Ancient Battleships would then indicate that those ships were constructed for battle against the Wraith (or that the rings had been removed across the board from Ancient designs due to some general reason) . I'm not sure the teleporters are a complete replacement for the rings in all possible usage scenarios but an struggling to identify exactly what those edge cases would be. Possibly to do with range; The rings seek out the closest set of other rings(no info on range), but in SG1 'Beachhead' they sought out Ori rings through the Supergate. We have seen ring ship to ship transfers in SG1 too.

    If the teleporters don't work ship to ship then in the absence of the Asgard Beam(or other ancient tech of equivalence) there would be no way for the Ancients to travel from Atlantis to a ship in orbit without a transport ship/jumper etc.. or landing battleships on Atlantis to embark/disembark crew. Neither of which would seem that desirable.

    If the rings are indeed a weakness that was removed due to the Wraith exploiting them then that knowledge of what the Wraith did could be of use against the Ori.

    Your theory about them being in the damaged portions of the city also plausible, but doesn't explain the lack on Ancient Battleships then.

    Come to think of it not remembering Destiny having rings either?
    Last edited by Railgun; March 29th, 2020 at 08:58 PM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Rings on Atlantis

    Quote Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
    If the teleporters don't work ship to ship then in the absence of the Asgard Beam(or other ancient tech of equivalence) there would be no way for the Ancients to travel from Atlantis to a ship in orbit without a transport ship/jumper etc.. or landing battleships on Atlantis to embark/disembark crew. Neither of which would seem that desirable.
    Jumpers get into space pretty fast and the Wraith can't detect their cloaks so they can come and go fairly easily. In most situations, I don't think it would be too much of a hardship. The biggest disadvantage is that there are scenarios when evacuation wouldn't be possible. If an Ancient battleship is under heavy fire from multiple angles, the second a jumper passes through the ship's shield, the jumper is going to be destroyed. Rings, though, would give them an out if they're fighting above an outpost/city or alongside other Ancient ships.

    Your theory about them being in the damaged portions of the city also plausible, but doesn't explain the lack on Ancient Battleships then.
    Well, we didn't see Ancient battleships very much. The largest glimpse inside one that we got was in "Travelers" when Sheppard ran around one for a bit. In that episode, we got to see the Auxiliary Control Room for the first time because it was relevant to the plot. It's not unreasonable that there's also a ring room in there somewhere that they just didn't have a reason to send anyone to in the brief time Ancient battleship interiors appears onscreen.

    Come to think of it not remembering Destiny having rings either?
    Not that we know of, no. The technology would've been around at that point since the Ori also had ring technology, but I didn't see any situation where having one would have been needed. They're not going to encounter rings on any planet, the shuttles are a bit small to devote space to one, and the seed ships are supposed to be far ahead of the Destiny. From the perspective of the Destiny's builders, the only point of having rings on the Destiny would be if their descendants gated to the ship and started bringing rings with them to install in other locations (bases, support ships that they constructed over there, etc.). There's little reason to build rings for that scenario, though, since they wouldn't even know if rings will still be around in the future and if their descendants are bringing transport technology over anyway, it would be best to let them also install the most recent make and model on the Destiny themselves.

    Also, if both the Destiny and the seeds ships had rings, it's another potential security risk. Imagine if an alien species took down a seed ship (or came upon a derelict one) and recovered its rings. If that alien species is still around in however many thousands of years, there's a good chance they'd be able to use them to ring aboard the Destiny and take it over.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Rings on Atlantis

    Have done a bit of reading around and it may well be that the Atlantis transporters are actually based on similar technology to the rings. So maybe even can interact with ring platforms(though not shown in the show). This would seem to support the Ancients moving away from rings. The reason for this being unknown but could well be the potential security issue you point to.

    It appears that the Ancients possibly went first from rings to the Atlantis transporters and then to a later beam transportation system(seen only in later SG1 episodes).

    One can see why the beam transporter would be better (in most circumstances to the rings). I could also see the possibility that the Asgard then derived their own beam transporter later based on this? Perhaps with what they learned fro the Ancient database.

    Have we ever seen the Vanir with Asgard beam transporters? I think they just jumped off their ship in environment suits when they raided Atlantis. Don't remember the transporter beam tech being used by them. That may support the idea that the Asgard only developed the beam transports after they split.

    Agree, there's not a lot of point having rings on Destiny. It's pretty much a 1-off ship going into uncharted territory where there would be no other ring platforms. Though it could be useful if they had bigger shuttles/support ships or even for getting around on destiny as it's massive.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Rings on Atlantis

    Maybe the Ancients planned a different version of the ring/beam tech to implement on Destiny. I wouldn't be surprised if in a future SGU season the crew would discover a room that has a transport technology similar to transport technologies featured in both SG-1 and Atlantis or maybe some kind of a fusion between transport technologies from both shows. But that would be stupid since those technolgies can easily be hacked if you have a McKay or a Sam on your team. plus there's still the danger of the Lucian Alliance coming back in some form and trying to re-take the ship again. I could easily see Colonel Young placing a veto on even thinking of using the tech. Which would defenitely make Rush do something to the man in order to get on with his work just like when Spencer killed himself.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Rings on Atlantis

    The most simple explanation, which would make all the fascinating technobabble obsolete (so let's ignore this simple explanation from here on out), this is Stargate Atlantis, not Stargate SG-1.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Rings on Atlantis

    FH's explanation is the closest. They didn't want to mix SG-1 elements with Atlantis technology in the beginning. The transport rings count as an "old fashioned" way of teleporting. Even the Ori had it too in season 9-10. Since Atlantis had a nice and nonstoply active shield for years, the rings couldn't penetrate through it anyway to match up with the other one if such things could have existed. And even the transport rooms / elevator rooms have got a little network within Atlantis because of the size of the city, so maybe the classic rings could disturb the system.
    Last edited by Platschu; March 30th, 2020 at 11:03 AM.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Rings on Atlantis

    Quote Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
    One can see why the beam transporter would be better (in most circumstances to the rings). I could also see the possibility that the Asgard then derived their own beam transporter later based on this? Perhaps with what they learned fro the Ancient database.
    Ancient beaming technology was only seen in Merlin built facilities, so there's a good chance he developed them with ascended knowledge.

    Have we ever seen the Vanir with Asgard beam transporters? I think they just jumped off their ship in environment suits when they raided Atlantis. Don't remember the transporter beam tech being used by them. That may support the idea that the Asgard only developed the beam transports after they split.
    No, but they've been cut off for 10,000 years. The Asgard have come a long way since they first started exploring other galaxies using stasis tech 30,000 years, and they developed exponentially during the replicator war. Their method for trying to combat them was to quickly develop new, more powerful technologies, which they admitted was ultimately self-defeating because they were making the replicators stronger in the process. We don't know how long the replicator war lasted or when they developed beaming technology, so I'm not linking the two. I'm just using this as example of how the Asgard have been able to fast track their development. I always assumed that the reason the Asgard were able to develop beaming technology when non-ascended Ancients may not have, was because the increased fragility of their cloned bodies created a greater need for robust beaming technology. Their ability to function in society and survive as a species was greatly aided by that technology and knowing that the need is so great is a good way to foster innovation. An actual, cannonical answer, though, is very much up in the air.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Rings on Atlantis

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    Ancient beaming technology was only seen in Merlin built facilities, so there's a good chance he developed them with ascended knowledge.
    Alternatively, Merlin lived on Atlantis (as Moros). If the Ancient beaming tech was invented by Merlin only later after ascension(Merlin still using ring tech in the cave at Glastonbury) then at the time of the Wraith war the Ancients did not have beaming tech, but the Wraith did(kind-of).

    That ties with the quote that they had awakened an enemy with powers that rivaled their own.

    Possible the Ancient beaming tech comes from Merlin reverse engineering it from the Wraith with some improvements?

    The Wraith certainly are quick to come up with counter measures to the beaming of nukes on-board their ships. Would make sense if it had been based on their own tech to start with.
    Last edited by Railgun; March 30th, 2020 at 04:50 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Rings on Atlantis

    Quote Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
    The Wraith certainly are quick to come up with counter measures to the beaming of nukes on-board their ships. Would make sense if it had been based on their own tech to start with.
    There's also the Asgard as a possible explanation. The Asgard said their interstellar ships were destroyed by the Wraith. It's possible all their beaming hardware went with it, but before it did the Wraith were in a position where they needed to create a defense to it.

    It's just jamming technology, though. Earth also created a jamming field fairly quickly and installed it in the SGC after Ba'al's intrusion. If you have access to any kind of beaming tech (even concentrated forms like the dart collection beams), I wouldn't be surprised if you knew enough about the technology to easily figure out how to jam it.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Rings on Atlantis

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    There's also the Asgard as a possible explanation. The Asgard said their interstellar ships were destroyed by the Wraith. It's possible all their beaming hardware went with it, but before it did the Wraith were in a position where they needed to create a defense to it.
    Possible but the Vanir ships left are next to useless in battle. Multiple ships destroyed by 1 clapped out Traveler ship.
    It could be the case that the interstellar ships were more formidable, or it could just be that the Asgard were not that advanced at that time relative to some of the other advanced races.

    If the Vanir used the beaming tech against the Wraith in the Ancient-Wraith war it would support the Wraith having a pre-made defense to it as you suggest however having discovered that defense it would just be foolish of them to ever turn it off again.

    They don't have shields to block beams like other races so any race with beaming tech could destroy their ships if they deactivated the blocking mechanism. OK they can put it on again but by that time they have lost a few ships that they didn't need to lose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    It's just jamming technology, though. Earth also created a jamming field fairly quickly and installed it in the SGC after Ba'al's intrusion. If you have access to any kind of beaming tech (even concentrated forms like the dart collection beams), I wouldn't be surprised if you knew enough about the technology to easily figure out how to jam it.
    I do wonder if there is a difference when trying to lock on to an object to beam it away (like beam away the earth gate) as opposed to beaming an object to another location (like beaming a nuke onto a Wraith ship).

    The first could be jammed by preventing the transport beam from locking on, but could the second be stopped that way. Even if you could not get an exact fix on the coordinates to re-materialise it could maybe be approximated. OK if there was something there like a Wraith or a bulkhead then the nuke may not function properly once beamed but sometimes if the target space was empty it would.

    So that would be a bit of a hit and miss way to block the beam of nukes. For that reason I think the Wraith might have come up with some use of their own transport beam tech to detect the nuke materilaisation and then beam it into storage before it can go off.

    Although having said that Hermiod's quote is that "The enemy has engaged countermeasures that are preventing our ability to transport". So I guess that does seem to support your jamming theory more but is suitably vague on the details.

    I guess if outward beams could be prevented by jamming alone then SG Command should have installed that tech on Atlantis too to prevent Wraith beaming down to the city from their darts, given that they didn't have shield capability to start with.
    Last edited by Railgun; March 31st, 2020 at 03:46 AM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Rings on Atlantis

    Quote Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
    Possible but the Vanir ships left are next to useless in battle. Multiple ships destroyed by 1 clapped out Traveler ship.
    It could be the case that the interstellar ships were more formidable, or it could just be that the Asgard were not that advanced at that time relative to some of the other advanced races.
    I wouldn't expect that their ships were all that formidable 10,000 years ago since it was the replicator war that pushed them to create stronger shields, hulls, weapons, energy sources, etc.

    A question I have, though, was whether the ships we saw were actually built by the Asgard. At the time, people pointed out that they looked more Ancient in design, and while it's quite possible that the Asgard could have recovered Ancient shield frequencies from somewhere and applied it to their ships, it also could be that they got past Atlantis' shields in an Ancient ship. We know that they recovered Ancient environmental suits and enhanced them (at least, that's the internal explanation the writers used for re-purposing them in SGU) and for them to know about the Attero device means they've clearly been looting Ancient sites and accessing databases.

    What most leads me to think that those weren't their ships is this; who brings interstellar ships to another galaxy and how?

    We lost our intergalactic ships in the first battle and we did not have the resources to build more.

    That quote seems to imply that they had both their own intergalactic and interstellar ships, but did they tow them over? Did they build them over there? Were their main ships so big that had support ships that attached to them? These explanations seem unlikely.

    More likely to me is that they either captured interstellar ships after the Wraith destroyed all Asgard ships and that line is slightly misleading, or they boosted their fleet by capturing interstellar ships prior to the destruction of their intergalactic fleet. They probably would've experienced losses to their fleet while conducting their experiments and since they can upload their consciousnesses to new bodies, this wouldn't necessarily have caused a decline in their population, so finding new ships to replace the ones they lost is one way to maintain project efficiency. Alternatively, it's possible that they turned to re-purposing abandoned Ancient or human ships as a way to supplement their defenses when the Wraith turned their attention on them.

    A reasonable question at this point would be why those ships were so weak if they were Ancient in design. Maybe they weren't. I would imagine the Ancients had technologically advanced human allies, so maybe they're human ships. They could even be human ships that the Ancients helped upgrade a little. Alternatively, what if they're Ancient transports that were not built for combat? We know the Ancients have transport ships from "Before I Sleep," but we've never actually seen any.

    MELIA: We're awaiting the last of our offworld transport ships before beginning our evacuation through the Stargate.

    One of them held 300 people and was destroyed by the Wraith en route to Atlantis, but it happened off screen.

    New question: If a bunch of Ancient ships converged on Atlantis in the lead up to the evacuation, what happened to them? Were they left to be crushed by depth pressure at the bottom of the ocean? That's odd. If there are a lot of them, I understand doing that with some to make room for new incoming ships, but one would think the most recent arrivals would still be on Atlantis' piers after all this time. That they aren't maybe means that they never had any hope of reaching the safety of Atlantis' shields and instead it was expected that all of them would be shot down on approach but would, ideally, get close enough to beam to Atlantis. It's not a lot, but it's something in favor of the idea that the Ancients didn't abandon ship to city transport tech.

    If the Vanir used the beaming tech against the Wraith in the Ancient-Wraith war it would support the Wraith having a pre-made defense to it as you suggest however having discovered that defense it would just be foolish of them to ever turn it off again.
    I don't know, if you think you've defeated the one enemy that could do that, and it's been 10,000 years without a sighting of them or that technology, I can understand some complacency. Especially if jamming beaming tech uses energy that could be put to better use elsewhere.

    Look at every other ship. Their shields are their sole defense against Asgard beaming tech, but their shields can't remain up all the time because they're energy hogs. As a result, there's the possibility that someone can show up in a cloaked ship or appear suddenly and beam aboard before shields can be raised. Why then don't they employ jamming technology at all times? I'd assume there's some downside.


    I do wonder if there is a difference when trying to lock on to an object to beam it away (like beam away the earth gate) as opposed to beaming an object to another location (like beaming a nuke onto a Wraith ship).
    It seems situational. SG team members have subcutaneous locator beacons in their arms and when Ba'al stole all those Stargates, Sg-1 took them back by running around inside his ship, putting locator beacons on them one-by-one. Other times, it doesn't seem to be an issue. In some cases, I think the idea is supposed to be that the Asgard are more proficient at locking onto things without the use of beacons than humans are.

    The first could be jammed by preventing the transport beam from locking on, but could the second be stopped that way. Even if you could not get an exact fix on the coordinates to re-materialise it could maybe be approximated. OK if there was something there like a Wraith or a bulkhead then the nuke may not function properly once beamed but sometimes if the target space was empty it would.

    So that would be a bit of a hit and miss way to block the beam of nukes. For that reason I think the Wraith might have come up with some use of their own transport beam tech to detect the nuke materilaisation and then beam it into storage before it can go off.

    Although having said that Hermiod's quote is that "The enemy has engaged countermeasures that are preventing our ability to transport". So I guess that does seem to support your jamming theory more but is suitably vague on the details.
    Yeah, it does appear that they just can't get a lock anywhere within a jamming field. When that jamming field went up, the problem wasn't that they were still able to send nukes to Wraith ships and nothing happened, the issue was that they couldn't send anything over at all as you note by citing Hermoid's quote.

    I guess if outward beams could be prevented by jamming alone then SG Command should have installed that tech on Atlantis too to prevent Wraith beaming down to the city from their darts, given that they didn't have shield capability to start with.
    They didn't think to deploy/develop jamming technology in the SGC until season 9, episode 16 of Sg-1, though. That's equivalent to season 2 of Atlantis.
    Last edited by Xaeden; April 11th, 2020 at 07:34 PM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Rings on Atlantis

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    A question I have, though, was whether the ships we saw were actually built by the Asgard.
    An interesting idea. I must admit I had never considered the possibility that they were not Asgard made ships.

    Of course there was a long period of time before the Wraith took over the Pegasus galaxy even after their initial emergence o I'd expect that the Asgard could have established a base and manufacturing capability to produce ships in Pegasus. Would be a possible storyline if the team stumbled upon the remains of an Asgard base at some point.

    Given their focus was on the genetic issue their race was facing it could be they did not pursue anything else. They expected the Ancients to win the war and were wrong-footed when they didn't.

    I dare say the Vanir ships suffer from a similar issue to the Traveler ones(even if they were Asgard made), wear-and-tear and a lack of spare parts.

    To be fair there have not been enough battles with the Vanir to really know their capabilities. It could have been pilot skill why they lost so badly against the Traveler ship.. also the Travelers are really underrated.. their tech has performed well in pretty much every encounter..it's old and falling apart but good tech. And they make very nice hand guns.

    If the Travelers had simply manufactured weapons for the Genii,Hoffans etc..) the Wraith could have been history by now(possibly).


    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    Other times, it doesn't seem to be an issue. In some cases, I think the idea is supposed to be that the Asgard are more proficient at locking onto things without the use of beacons than humans are.
    I think there are some early uses of the beaming tech where Earth had to use locator beacons etc.. but they later were given the Asgard tech that made this obsolete.

    I would assume that the Asgard could have taken the Earth gate if they had wanted despite SG1 jamming field. It was only that Baal was using the beaming tech he stole from Earth that was inferior.

    It's possible that the Wraith just have an updated jamming tech that also works on Asgard locator tech but also possible the Wraith are using something different to prevent the transport.

    Actually I just realised something else from Hermiod's quote.

    "The enemy has engaged countermeasures that are preventing our ability to transport."

    Novak relays this to caldwell as "..they have found a way to jam us from beaming onto their ships. We don't know how."

    This could just be that Novak has miss-communicated what Hermiod had said in the context of what they were doing.

    Hermiod actually said "..preventing our ability to transport." not "..preventing our ability to transport aboard their ships."

    It's true that this is preventing the transport of nukes and that is what Caldwell is interested in at that moment in time, but the second sentence 'we don't know how.' means that it can't be taken as that they have employed a jamming field like in SG1. We don't know what they have done.

    A true representation of what Hermiod said would then be that the enemy has found a way to prevent the transport beam being used at all.

    Rather than being a field that protects an area (their ship) from the beaming tech it could be something directed at the Earth ship preventing beam out working.

    I always wondered why Caldwell had not simply beamed the nukes a few feet outside the enemy ship so they could still hit without being intercepted by darts, but that would explain it if the ability to beam was taken away completely.

    Also would explain why Earth ships don't simply beam Wraith darts away.
    The Asgard use the beaming technology against the Goa'uld in a similar way to remove enemy units in Thor's Chariot.

    If the countermeasure is something they have to apply to the enemy ship with beaming technology then that explains the complacency issue too. It's not something they could have permanently on as a protection it's an anti-weapon weapon that they deploy as needed.
    Last edited by Railgun; March 31st, 2020 at 10:20 PM.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Rings on Atlantis

    Quote Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
    Of course there was a long period of time before the Wraith took over the Pegasus galaxy even after their initial emergence o I'd expect that the Asgard could have established a base and manufacturing capability to produce ships in Pegasus. Would be a possible storyline if the team stumbled upon the remains of an Asgard base at some point.
    The Ancient-Wraith war lasted a hundred years and the Asgard said they were able to operate in the Pegasus galaxy because the Ancients were too occupied with the Wraith to stop them. This suggests to me that that the Asgard showed up maybe in the last few years to few decades of the war. Still a good chunk of time, and I don't doubt that they had a base somewhere, but all the gears of industry necessary to create a functional shipyard and mine the materials necessary to produce and refine raw materials is a huge operation to undertake. That's especially true for a group of renegades who not only were planning on being in the Pegasus galaxy for a fixed period of time, but had to work under an unknown time constraint because sooner or later the Wraith or Ancients would win and the jig would be up. Building shipyards and new ships would significantly cut into critical time and resources needed to for their experiments.

    Also, why would they build interstellar ships in the Pegasus galaxy that they knew they'd have to abandon when it was time to leave?

    I dare say the Vanir ships suffer from a similar issue to the Traveler ones(even if they were Asgard made), wear-and-tear and a lack of spare parts.
    Maybe, but there's nothing to indicate that they've been used in the past 10,000 years. They were supposedly hiding on a toxic planet and only emerged now for the same reason there were hints of some advanced humans getting ready to make themselves known; the Wraith are weaker than they've ever been thanks to their Civil War and the damage Earth/the replicators have done.

    Those ships could have experienced damage 10,000 years ago that the Asgard aren't able to fully fix, but they're not in the same boat as Traveler ships, which have been actively in use for generations.

    To be fair there have not been enough battles with the Vanir to really know their capabilities. It could have been pilot skill why they lost so badly against the Traveler ship.. also the Travelers are really underrated.. their tech has performed well in pretty much every encounter..it's old and falling apart but good tech. And they make very nice hand guns.
    I think the Traveler ship just legitimately outclassed them. Here's a clip of the battle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eleWW2lmngY

    One Asgard ship exchanges fire with the Traveler ship. They both miss one shot and score one shot on each other's shields. The other Asgard ship fires and misses. Both then fire and miss repeatedly as Sheppard pulls off his U-turn maneuver. The Traveler ship returns fire, but we don't see if it hit anything because there's a cut to the surface of the planet.

    It cuts back, the Traveler ship gets two hits on one Asgard ship, and the Asgard ship gets one on the Traveler. That Traveler ship then flies past that ship and exchanges fire with the second one. They both seem to score an equal number of additional hits before getting locked into their death spiral where it takes what looks like 7 additional shots to destroy the Asgard ship. In the same time it looks like the Travelers got hit at least 5 times, but there's a point where it's particularly hard to tell when the Asgard easily could've gotten in another two.

    The Traveler ship had already taken a few hits from two enemies when it got locked into a point blank, basically hit for hit match, so it wasn't a piloting issue. The Asgard ship had weaker weapons and shields.

    The remaining Asgard ship then briefly engaged the Traveler ship and got several more hits in before jumping into hyperspace. There was no mention of the Traveler shields being about to fail and the Asgard were evidently not confident that they could finish off the Travelers, so I think it's fair to say that it is comparable in strength to two Asgard ships.

    If the Travelers had simply manufactured weapons for the Genii,Hoffans etc..) the Wraith could have been history by now(possibly).
    Just because their energy weapons can take out a small shielded ship doesn't mean it can penetrate Wraith hulls. We've unfortunately never seen a Wraith vs Traveler match up, so I couldn't say how that would go.

    Also, unfortunately for the Travelers they've long since lost their manufacturing ability, but before the Asgard beams came on the scene I was hoping the Travelers would be willing to let Earth try to reverse engineer their ships' energy weapons in exchange for helping them make long lasting repairs to their fleet.

    I think there are some early uses of the beaming tech where Earth had to use locator beacons etc.. but they later were given the Asgard tech that made this obsolete.
    I don't recall that. The example I gave was from late in season 9. The only time after that where Asgard upgrades were mentioned was the season 10 finale. Even if we allow that those upgrades made beacons obsolete, that leaves only two seasons of Atlantis where it was excusable to ignore the existence of beacons.

    I would assume that the Asgard could have taken the Earth gate if they had wanted despite SG1 jamming field. It was only that Baal was using the beaming tech he stole from Earth that was inferior.
    If the writers said that the Wraith could create jamming tech that blocked the Asgard from getting a lock but Earth couldn't, I'd raise an eyebrow. Sure, the Wraith are scientifically more advanced even if they don't always have access to more advanced technology, but it's just a jammer and Earth actually had Asgard beaming tech to study when they developed their defense of it. Also, even if Earth's beaming technology was somehow vastly inferior's to the version the Asgard used, Ba'al's beaming technology came from Anubis' interrogation of Thor just a few years ago. If it was said that he couldn't operate it with the same proficiency as an Asgard user, I'd buy that, but I have difficulty with the idea that he was using vastly inferior beaming technology.

    Rather than being a field that protects an area (their ship) from the beaming tech it could be something directed at the Earth ship preventing beam out working.
    It's definitely a field because the Daedalus has beamed people to/from other locations when engaging Wraith ships. In "No Man's Land," for example, the Daedalus was able to beam everyone off the Orion before it was destroyed, but they had to wait until Michael disabled his Hive's jamming codes to be able to beam the retrovirus abroad.

    I always wondered why Caldwell had not simply beamed the nukes a few feet outside the enemy ship so they could still hit without being intercepted by darts, but that would explain it if the ability to beam was taken away completely.
    I always assumed that the field simply extended a certain distance away from the ships.

    Also would explain why Earth ships don't simply beam Wraith darts away.
    Earth's difficulty getting locks on unbeaconed targets, especially fast moving ones would also explain that.

    The Asgard use the beaming technology against the Goa'uld in a similar way to remove enemy units in Thor's Chariot.
    There it was used as actual beams, though. It teleported whatever it touched, like Wraith beam tech.
    Last edited by Xaeden; April 11th, 2020 at 07:29 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    Ba'al's beaming technology came from Anubis' interrogation of Thor just a few years ago
    To be fair you might be right with this; I've found it said elsewhere too.

    My understanding had always been that the Gao'uld acquired Asgard beaming technology from Earth through their infiltration of The Trust and that the probing of Thor's mind by Anubis had been unsuccessful..because Thor would rather die than give up the secrets of the Asgard.

    Even at the end of Revelations Thor says;
    "The Goa'uld are attempting to download the information stored in my pre-frontal cortex. It is only a matter of time before they break through my mental defenses." Which would seem to indicate they had not yet done so.

    Shortly afterwards the Asgard fleet arrive and Anubis retreats. From this I did not believe that Anubis had successfully been able to extract the knowledge from Thor.

    Osiris did however capture the Asgard base on the planet so perhaps could have taken the technology from there(although that's not to say understand it).

    I'd need to do some re-watching but is there anything else where it actually confirms that Anubis took the Transporter knowledge from Thor?

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    The confirmation that they did manage to get some information from Thor between the time he said that line and his rescue was confirmed in season 7's "Chimera."

    CARTER: We're speculating that she's sneaking into Daniel's house at night and using some sort of modified memory device.

    TEAL'C: Anubis once probed Thor's mind and in doing so they would have gained access to certain Asgard technology.
    While looking up this quote I also found a line that might be of some interest to you...

    CARTER: It jams the frequency the Goa'uld use for communication and the remote control devices like the ring transporters. Right now we're working on making it portable enough to ...

    ...

    CARTER: We're hoping the jamming device we've been working on, could prevent Osiris from using the beam technology to escape Daniel's room.
    I had forgotten about that part, but apparently they spent some time developing a portable jamming device that was first put into use in season 7. Teal'c said it would also work on Goa'uld operated Asgard beaming technology because the Goa'uld "would most likely interface any Asgard system with their own command device." Meaning it wouldn't have worked on actual Asgard beams because they don't operate on the same frequency. Although it should be fairly easy to rework the device to block Asgard frequencies or a broader range of frequencies so that the Asgard couldn't get around the device by switching frequencies. In any case, this explains why they were so easily able to prevent Ba'al from beaming into the SGC after he stole the Stargate, but it's curious that they had the technology for so long and didn't use it in the SGC even though they knew Ba'al was running around with beaming tech.

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    Default Re: Rings on Atlantis

    Thanks. I guess that is what the writers intended then that the knowledge was extracted from Thor's mind by Anubis, however technically it could just be Tealc's assumption that it had been.

    Yes, the second quote is a find too. I don't think it means that they have a device that can block beaming tech though; I think what it means is that they can block Gao'uld communication which Osiris used to trigger the beam remotely. The beaming tech would most likely work fine it just never receives the remote control signal to engage.

    That's why it can block the use of the rings too. Not because the rings and the beaming tech are so similar to be susceptible to the same attack, just that the command communication signal never gets through to activate them.
    Last edited by Railgun; April 2nd, 2020 at 11:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
    Thanks. I guess that is what the writers intended then that the knowledge was extracted from Thor's mind by Anubis, however technically it could just be Tealc's assumption that it had been.
    Possibly, but the only two Goa'uld who were shown to have beaming tech were Osiris and Ba'al and they both served Anubis. They also suddenly started using Asgard holographic technology after that. Earth also has Asgard hologram tech ("Convent" - S8E8), but Ba'al was never shown to have anything else that the Asgard gave Earth. As far as we know, they never had intergalactic hyperspace engines or Asgard shields, so it very much seems like Teal'c was right in that Anubis managed to extract some information from Thor's mind, but Sg-1 pulled him out before the Goa'uld got everything.


    Also, if the Trust gained access to advanced Asgard technologies while spying on Earth, I feel that's something of such high magnitude that it would be incumbent on the writers to at the very least mention it.

    Yes, the second quote is a find too. I don't think it means that they have a device that can block beaming tech though; I think what it means is that they can block Gao'uld communication which Osiris used to trigger the beam remotely. The beaming tech would most likely work fine it just never receives the remote control signal to engage.

    That's why it can block the use of the rings too. Not because the rings and the beaming tech are so similar to be susceptible to the same attack, just that the command communication signal never gets through to activate them.
    Right, which is different from the jamming field in the SGC. That one supposedly blocks incoming beam ins, something that it seems the season 7 device shouldn't have been able to do if we accurately understand its premise.
    Last edited by Xaeden; April 17th, 2020 at 02:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    Possibly, but the only two Goa'uld who were shown to have beaming tech were Osiris and Ba'al and they both served Anubis. They also suddenly started using Asgard holographic technology after that. Earth also has Asgard hologram tech ("Convent" - S8E8), but Ba'al was never shown to have anything else that the Asgard gave Earth. As far as know, they never had intergalactic hyperspace engines or Asgard shields, so it very much seems like Teal'c was right in that Anubis managed to extract some information from Thor's mind, but Sg-1 pulled him out before the Goa'uld got everything.
    That explanation is probably more canon than mine, but here is another stab at an alternate theory:

    Anubis got nothing from Thor.

    Osiris captured the Asgard base beneath the planet surface..which we saw has Asgard transporter and holographic technology.

    Anubis was pre-occupied with trying to probe Thor's mind, through which he hoped to get all of the Asgard knowledge. He was therefore little concerned with the base and left that to Osiris.

    Osiris took the Asgard tech beaming device and holographic device from the base and integrated into his Al'kesh.

    This was then captured by the Trust.

    Brooks escaped with the ship to hyperspace in 'Endgame'.

    In "Full Alert" carter suggests they had been captured by the Goa'uld.

    "
    CARTER: According to Tok'ra intelligence, the Trust launched at least two poison attacks against Goa'uld-occupied worlds after we took back the Gate. That means they had to leave the relatively safe confines of the solar system and head out into the galaxy where they ran the risk of being killed or ... captured.

    CHEKOV: What are you suggesting?

    CARTER: Any Goa'uld who got his hands on them would have discovered pretty quickly that they belong to a top secret organization with high level connections to some of the most powerful governments and institutions on this planet, including the S.G.C., Area 51, and maybe even the Ancient outpost in the Antarctic.

    CHEKOV: My God! You think they have been taken as hosts, then sent back to Earth.
    "

    So here is my suggestion:

    The Goa'uld never really acquired the Asgard transporter technology (ie the understanding of it).
    Osiris got a pre-built transporter from the Asgard base and integrated it into the Alk'esh with Goa'uld control technology.
    The Alk'esh was stolen by the Trust.
    The trust were captured by the Goa'uld. (probably Ba'al)

    So somewhere between 'Endgame' and 'Full Alert'( when the Alk'esh was destroyed), Ba'al could have removed the Asgard transporter and integrated it into his own ship.

    OK, I need to go and watch Full Alert to make sure there is no example of the Alk'esh Transporter being used in that episode which would kill this theory dead if it was.
    Last edited by Railgun; April 4th, 2020 at 12:25 AM.

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