The Covid19 thread

[Annoyed]

Who is stopping them?
The state governments are limiting the amount of people to EVERYTHING, it's not restricted to churches.
What if I claimed the NFL was an essential service and the government had no right to stop games with packed stadiums?
Would you be just as mad?
Guess not because you have not mentioned it at all.
I have said twice, and now for the THIRD TIME, if you can work it out, go for it. This has NOTHING to do with religion, it's about public safety.

The NFL isn't holding games in drive-in lots, with all the fans sitting in their own cars, are they? Very different situation.

[epg20]

Who is stopping them?
The state governments are limiting the amount of people to EVERYTHING, it's not restricted to churches.
What if I claimed the NFL was an essential service and the government had no right to stop games with packed stadiums?
Would you be just as mad?
Guess not because you have not mentioned it at all.
I have said twice, and now for the THIRD TIME, if you can work it out, go for it. This has NOTHING to do with religion, it's about public safety.

it isn't about public safety it is about LIFE AND DEATH those numbers we see on the news aren't just numbers on a tote board, they are actual lives, think of seeing your grand mother or even your three month old daughter in the middle of a pile of bodies. Y_-_The_Last_Man_01_p40.jpg

[Skydiver]

The NFL isn't holding games in drive-in lots, with all the fans sitting in their own cars, are they? Very different situation.

The NFL will not do that because there’s no real profit in it. They will possibly hold games without fans and televised only so they can get advertiser money and franchise fees from the stations airing the games.

Honestly they and other sports teams will be in a world of hurt because those ridiculous salaries are paid by the working slobs that plunk down money for tickets, merchandise, $15 hot dogs and $20 beers. take that away and they’re gonna have a hard time paying the 6-7 figure salaries of the players not to mention the 6-7 figure salaries of the coaches and owners.

Sports is the modern day gladiators....distracting the public while ‘Rome’ burns.

I’m not a sports fan so I haven’t missed the lack of sports at all.

[epg20]

a lot of what we are seeing around the country isn't about the guy who got killed, though I agree that the guys involved deserve to be in prison, most of what we are seeing is pent up fear and anger over what has ben going on with covd. all the riots looting and burning is just a release valve over being locked inside for such a long time away from friends and family, there is still a lot more to come, aside from birthdays, we have wedding anniversaries, graduation celebrations, weddings, vacations, not to mention the BIG holidays Halloween, thanksgiving, Christmas and new years all this and more to come.

[Annoyed]

a lot of what we are seeing around the country isn't about the guy who got killed, though I agree that the guys involved deserve to be in prison, most of what we are seeing is pent up fear and anger over what has ben going on with covd. all the riots looting and burning is just a release valve over being locked inside for such a long time away from friends and family, there is still a lot more to come, aside from birthdays, we have wedding anniversaries, graduation celebrations, weddings, vacations, not to mention the BIG holidays Halloween, thanksgiving, Christmas and new years all this and more to come.

I rather doubt that. We've seen this kind of scenario play out before. There was no such thing as Covid back then.

[Gatefan1976]

The NFL isn't holding games in drive-in lots, with all the fans sitting in their own cars, are they? Very different situation.

Sigh.
For the FOURTH TIME NOW, if you can work out a way to do it, do it.
You and MG are claiming religious persecution, and it's clearly BS. The ONLY case of the "drive thru" notion of worship being denied is WHERE EXACTLY?
I have utterly, absolutely, NO ISSUE with people going to church, or anywhere else as long as they can do it safely, not just for them but those they come into contact with. You see, that's what you "my freedom" people always overlook, the COST you impose on others because you are incapable and unwilling to see how your actions affect those around you, and you don't care.
It's always the same with you screaming kids

[Gatefan1976]

it isn't about public safety it is about LIFE AND DEATH those numbers we see on the news aren't just numbers on a tote board, they are actual lives, think of seeing your grand mother or even your three month old daughter in the middle of a pile of bodies. [ATTACH=CONFIG]43111[/ATTACH]

It absolutely is about public safety because if public safety is your goal you can AVOID LIFE AND DEATH SITUATIONS. How hard is this to comprehend? I keep my kid at home because they have a cough because it's in the PUBLIC SAFTEY for me to do, so I don't add to that pile of bodies you are referring to, no matter the cost to me.
It's not about you or me, or my kids, it's about US. WE as a people getting through this crapstorm.

[epg20]

I rather doubt that. We've seen this kind of scenario play out before. There was no such thing as Covid back then.

yes, we have, the L.A. riots were bad, I had a sister in .LA.at the time, but it also dealt with pent up frustrations, of being over looked as a race and constantly put down and insulted on a daily basis being ignored and harassed, there is a lot I can relate to, though I am a white guy, I won't go in to detail, but I grew up different in this world and can relate to a point wit a great number of things. it may not be the whole, but it is half is what I am willing to bet.

[epg20]

It absolutely is about public safety because if public safety is your goal you can AVOID LIFE AND DEATH SITUATIONS. How hard is this to comprehend? I keep my kid at home because they have a cough because it's in the PUBLIC SAFTEY for me to do, so I don't add to that pile of bodies you are referring to, no matter the cost to me.
It's not about you or me, or my kids, it's about US. WE as a people getting through this crapstorm.

the problem is that this isn't a cold, there is no way to tell if someone has it or not until the symptoms occur, to be honest I think I may have had it, but the only way to be sure is to risk going out and getting tested to see if I got it, BUT, if I do that I risk getting it, so yeah... I think we are taking different roads but going to the same place. :-)

[Annoyed]

yes, we have, the L.A. riots were bad, I had a sister in .LA.at the time, but it also dealt with pent up frustrations, of being over looked as a race and constantly put down and insulted on a daily basis being ignored and harassed, there is a lot I can relate to, though I am a white guy, I won't go in to detail, but I grew up different in this world and can relate to a point wit a great number of things. it may not be the whole, but it is half is what I am willing to bet.

This is an entirely different discussion that I'm not going to go into. Way into verboten territory around here. All I'm saying is don't blame the aftermath of the killing on CV.

[Skydiver]

Many have drawn parallels with the current social distancing and mask wearing to restrictions placed back in WWII. Mandating that everyone use blackout curtains for the safety of others. Mandating rationing so that everyone could get food.

And they’re not wrong. How do you think it would have gone over had some people said ‘frak those curtains, i want to turn the lights on and be seen’ thus making it easier for bombers to attack their towns? Or storming the stores saying ‘frak the rationing, I want a whole pound of sugar and you wont’ stop me’

The supreme selfishness of some in the face of their actions endangering others.

I ran a few errands today. I wore a mask in every store. ANd I will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Because I don’t want to be ‘that person’, the person that happens to be carrying the virus and make others sick. I do it because I care about others.

I have a church right down the street from me. As soon as the word came out that they were shut down, he did just that. PUt up the signs and closed the building. They have a weekly food pantry, they found a way to do it in the parking lot so people can not enter the building. They did the same with the baby closet that they also have.

I respect him all the more for honoring the governor’s directive and showing that he cares for his parishioners. He cares for them enough that he’d rather not see them and keep them safe than demand that they come and endanger their lives.

Personally? Those ‘pastors’ that demand services be held despite the rules are selfish. (My opinion)
Whether it’s their lack of faith, the collection plate, their ego needing boosting or fear that their parishioners will find other things to do on a Sunday morning I don’t know. I just know that I respect those that honor the laws and hold themselves equal to the rest of us, instead of declaring themselves ‘better’ than the rest of us and above the law.

This virus does not discriminate. It can and will affect everyone. ANd we have yet to know just what the long term ramifications of it is. People that have had the severe form have had body parts amputated due to lack of oxygen killing their limbs. they have had significant damage done to their bodies by blood clots. They may have chronic life long lung damage... In other words they may have survived the virus only to spend the rest of their lives living with the effects. ANd every single person is gambling that they may not be in the group that gets really sick. You may be lucky. A majority of us may be lucky. But a lot wont’ be.

That’s the reality we will be living with for at least the next year or two until there is a vaccine and it can be distributed. (And that’s where the focus should be, not just making the vaccine but everything we’ll need to distribute it....billions of syringes, alcohol wipes, bandaids, gloves etc that people will need to have inoculation clinics.

[mad_gater]

Many have drawn parallels with the current social distancing and mask wearing to restrictions placed back in WWII. Mandating that everyone use blackout curtains for the safety of others. Mandating rationing so that everyone could get food.

And they’re not wrong. How do you think it would have gone over had some people said ‘frak those curtains, i want to turn the lights on and be seen’ thus making it easier for bombers to attack their towns? Or storming the stores saying ‘frak the rationing, I want a whole pound of sugar and you wont’ stop me’

The supreme selfishness of some in the face of their actions endangering others.

I ran a few errands today. I wore a mask in every store. ANd I will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Because I don’t want to be ‘that person’, the person that happens to be carrying the virus and make others sick. I do it because I care about others.

I have a church right down the street from me. As soon as the word came out that they were shut down, he did just that. PUt up the signs and closed the building. They have a weekly food pantry, they found a way to do it in the parking lot so people can not enter the building. They did the same with the baby closet that they also have.

I respect him all the more for honoring the governor’s directive and showing that he cares for his parishioners. He cares for them enough that he’d rather not see them and keep them safe than demand that they come and endanger their lives.

Personally? Those ‘pastors’ that demand services be held despite the rules are selfish. (My opinion)
Whether it’s their lack of faith, the collection plate, their ego needing boosting or fear that their parishioners will find other things to do on a Sunday morning I don’t know. I just know that I respect those that honor the laws and hold themselves equal to the rest of us, instead of declaring themselves ‘better’ than the rest of us and above the law.

This virus does not discriminate. It can and will affect everyone. ANd we have yet to know just what the long term ramifications of it is. People that have had the severe form have had body parts amputated due to lack of oxygen killing their limbs. they have had significant damage done to their bodies by blood clots. They may have chronic life long lung damage... In other words they may have survived the virus only to spend the rest of their lives living with the effects. ANd every single person is gambling that they may not be in the group that gets really sick. You may be lucky. A majority of us may be lucky. But a lot wont’ be.

That’s the reality we will be living with for at least the next year or two until there is a vaccine and it can be distributed. (And that’s where the focus should be, not just making the vaccine but everything we’ll need to distribute it....billions of syringes, alcohol wipes, bandaids, gloves etc that people will need to have inoculation clinics.

be careful of comparing apples to oranges....in WW2 it involved making it hard for an enemy to drop bombs on you as you rightfully said......well in today's case the "enemy" in an airborne virus that isn't gonna give a rat's you-know-what whether or not you're locked up in your house.....it'll come for you sooner or later

[Skydiver]

If more people systemically wore masks various tests have shown, the spread of the virus would be significantly slowed. There have been various tests such as the person that sneezed on a Petrie dish with and without a mask and the amount of stuff that grew on the unmasked sample was many times what grew on the masked sample.
Or the laser that showed the amount of droplets in the air masked vs non-masked.

The more people that mask means the more ‘dead end streets’, as in people that get the virus but don’t spread it to others and it dies out in them.

If 10 people are infected and all of them wear masks, instead of infecting 100 people (the theory that each person infects 10 as an example) maybe those 10 infect 10 other people total- people that co-habit with them, then instead of exponential growth we have incremental growth. Each person infects 1 or 2 more instead of 10 more, which makes it much easier to contain and in some cases, the line of transmission ends...the husband and wife that infect each other but no one else and that virus dies out.

[Annoyed]

This virus does not discriminate. It can and will affect everyone. ANd we have yet to know just what the long term ramifications of it is. People that have had the severe form have had body parts amputated due to lack of oxygen killing their limbs. they have had significant damage done to their bodies by blood clots. They may have chronic life long lung damage... In other words they may have survived the virus only to spend the rest of their lives living with the effects. ANd every single person is gambling that they may not be in the group that gets really sick. You may be lucky. A majority of us may be lucky. But a lot wont’ be.

And the plans for premature re-opening are completely ignoring these risks, despite it being known that certain groups of people are more susceptible to the more severe effects of the disease. Forcing folks that are known to be more susceptible to the effects back into cubicle farms and such is placing these people at far greater risk. The odds are hardly even.

Which is why we shouldn't be re-opening anytime soon. If you are designing a bridge, or anything else, you design it to carry the heaviest load that it will be expected to carry, rather than designing it for a light load and hoping for the best on a heavy load. Anything else would be negligence, which *should* result in legal action against everyone involved when the heavier load inevitably collapses the bridge and kills a crapload of people.

That’s the reality we will be living with for at least the next year or two until there is a vaccine and it can be distributed. (And that’s where the focus should be, not just making the vaccine but everything we’ll need to distribute it....billions of syringes, alcohol wipes, bandaids, gloves etc that people will need to have inoculation clinics.

We may never get a vaccine for this. How many other viruses do we not have vaccines for? There is a distinct chance that high-risk people are going to have to live "in hiding" for a very long time, possibly until their natural deaths.
Yes, prepare for distribution if and when we get a vaccine. But till then, we should be spending effort on identifying who has it, who has had it and have antibodies and therefore immunity and who hasn't gotten it, particularly those in the high risk populations.

We need to develop effective and anonymous testing, and use that info to determine who is safe going back to the cubicle farms.

Womble made a good point in his post:

On the other hand, so long as people aren't back to work, the government needs to finance them. Very few people's nest egg is big enough to be able to survive several months out of work. The economic damage of lockdown is so staggering that some countries, like Sweden and Belarus, took the risk of not shutting down their economy at all

The economic damage from this is going to be significant and very long lasting. I'm not ignoring that. But we know where this came from, whether by negligence or by design. How about we send them the bill? Or take it out of the debt that we owe them?

If you screw up on the way to the grocery store next week, and total someone's car (let's hope no injuries) because you were using your cell phone while driving, you (or your insurance carrier) are going to get the bill for that, aren't you? Same principle.

But that's going to be difficult if we are too politically correct to place the blame for this where it belongs, isn't it? That's why I've been so strident about placing blame for this where it belongs.

[Falcon Horus]

But what possible logical justification can there be to oppose people sitting in their cars in a drive-in lot?

As long as people are staying in their cars then I see no issue.

Depends who is in the car, really.

Are they one family -- parents with their own kids. Or are they a collection of friends from different places.

In the family-group, there wouldn't be a problem. The second group with friends would be -- they are going to come from different places, different families and intermingle with one another which defeats the purpose of "social distance" altogether.

be careful of comparing apples to oranges....in WW2 it involved making it hard for an enemy to drop bombs on you as you rightfully said......well in today's case the "enemy" in an airborne virus that isn't gonna give a rat's you-know-what whether or not you're locked up in your house.....it'll come for you sooner or later

But stay-in-place does benefit the infection rate.

A study was conducted over here about where people got infected the most, and as it turns out, workplace is number one on that list.