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  1. #21
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Timeless Children (3810 / 1210)

    I have no problem with Jodie. She's better than Matt Smith was. She can't help the drivel that Chibnall hands her to read.
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  2. #22
    Captain cosmichobo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Timeless Children (3810 / 1210)

    I don't know if I want to watch this episode - I really don't think I do.

    Yes, absolutely, new producers / writers have from time to time retconned the show's past to fit in their new concepts; the "13 Lives" rule for instance didn't appear in Doctor Who until half way through the original era's run. But generally those retcons were more like a little splinter, or at worst like breaking a bone and re-setting it. This (by the sounds of it from reading above, and elsewhere) breaks every bone ever conceived in the history of the show.

    And I thought I had it tough watching old grey grumpy Doc "not care" about people dying in Mummy on the Orient Express... cos that was such an un-Doctor-like thing to see, and offended my sensibilities!

    I've often scoffed at fans who outright refuse to accept parts of the televised series as "canon", because they so vehemently objected to some issue or other. Now, here I stand, contemplating crossing that bridge...

    God, melodramatic or what, cosmic? Shut the **** up and just go to bed.
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  3. #23
    Air Force Chief of Staff Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Timeless Children (3810 / 1210)

    The Doctor wasn't going to regenerate at all when William Hartnell was it, but we have his poor health to thank for that... and they already had to break the 12 regeneration rules once, so it was bound to happen again especially with the BBC not yet planning on retiring the franchise.
    Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum
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  4. #24
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Timeless Children (3810 / 1210)

    20-20 hindsight says the 12 regeneration rule was boneheaded to begin with, but they didn't count on this series existing sa long as it has. So I can understand the retcon eliminating it.

    Overall, this season was an enormous disappointment, for many reasons.

    As far as plans on retiring the series for now, at least, with the pathetic ratings this season has achieved, I'm not going to be surprised of the Christmas special this year is the last we see of it for a while. As I understand it, 2 companions have quit over it already.

    https://cosmicbook.news/doctor-who-c...strous-ratings

    Regarding the ratings, the article also notes ratings have fallen to 5.5 million from 8 million for the previous series in 2018, and what is particularly worrisome is that over 600k viewers turned off the Doctor Who Season 12 finale that aired Sunday but returned for the show following the episode.
    I hope I'm wrong, but it just might be that the show itself has been sacrificed on the altar of Chibnall's politically correct soapbox. Congratulations, dude. You suck.

    Hey, Hey, Ho, Ho, Chibnall has got to go!
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  5. #25
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Timeless Children (3810 / 1210)

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    20-20 hindsight says the 12 regeneration rule was boneheaded to begin with, but they didn't count on this series existing sa long as it has. So I can understand the retcon eliminating it.

    Overall, this season was an enormous disappointment, for many reasons.

    As far as plans on retiring the series for now, at least, with the pathetic ratings this season has achieved, I'm not going to be surprised of the Christmas special this year is the last we see of it for a while. As I understand it, 2 companions have quit over it already.

    https://cosmicbook.news/doctor-who-c...strous-ratings



    I hope I'm wrong, but it just might be that the show itself has been sacrificed on the altar of Chibnall's politically correct soapbox. Congratulations, dude. You suck.

    Hey, Hey, Ho, Ho, Chibnall has got to go!
    Actually the BBC has confirmed that they absolutely no intentions of cancelling Doctor Who any time soon. As for the companions, you can count on one hand the number of companions who have lasted more than a season since the show revived.

  6. #26
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Timeless Children (3810 / 1210)

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    Actually the BBC has confirmed that they absolutely no intentions of cancelling Doctor Who any time soon. As for the companions, you can count on one hand the number of companions who have lasted more than a season since the show revived.
    Isn't that like a politician saying "If elected, I intend on doing (fill in the blank)" which of course he has no intention of doing and probably wouldn't be able to do anyway.

    If the matter was settled, they would use more affirmative language, such as "we will not be cancelling".
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  7. #27
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Timeless Children (3810 / 1210)

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    Isn't that like a politician saying "If elected, I intend on doing (fill in the blank)" which of course he has no intention of doing and probably wouldn't be able to do anyway.

    If the matter was settled, they would use more affirmative language, such as "we will not be cancelling".
    For the BBC that is very affirmative really.
    The thing is that Doctor Who is still the BBC's biggest export (except maybe Top Gear) and earns them a ton in merchandise sales. Even with the lower ratings they won't want to give that up. It is a very expensive series. But unlike other shows who live and die with their starring cast who have to be paid more and more after each season, Doctor can potentially massively reduce it's cost just by chanting leads and companions and start over from scratch. The classic who did this a number of times.

  8. #28
    He Who Burns At The Center Of Time The_Carpenter's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Timeless Children (3810 / 1210)

    They won't cancel it at least as long as the licence fee is a thing (although they considered resting it after Tennants run IIRC and that was when merch sales was at the peak).

    I can see Chibs having some uncomfortable meetings and being replaced before too long, and maybe then this mess can be retconed and ignored like the half Human nonsense from the TV movie. Preferably have the last 2 seasons be a regeneration fever dream and reveal the real 13th Doctor to be Jo Martin.
    Last edited by The_Carpenter; March 5th, 2020 at 10:43 PM.
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  9. #29
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Timeless Children (3810 / 1210)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Carpenter View Post
    They won't cancel it at least as long as the licence fee is a thing (although they considered resting it after Tennants run IIRC and that was when merch sales was at the peak).

    I can see Chibs having some uncomfortable meetings and being replaced before too long, and maybe then this mess can be retconed and ignored like the half Human nonsense from the TV movie. Preferably have the last 2 seasons be a regeneration fever dream and reveal the real 13th Doctor to be Jo Martin.
    I won't miss Chibnall. The sooner he's gone, the better. In fact, I'd like to see him stuffed into the Tardis and canned 3 years ago before he had a chance to screw the series up.

    But I don't want to see the show die or rested for any length of time. Considering the pathetic ratings in comparison to prior years, the BBC may have it on a death list. The long and growing longer delays between seasons certainly don't give me confidence. If a business is making money off a product, they make more of that product in order to make more money. They make less of the product when it's losing money for them, and they eventually stop making it.

    Hey, Hey, Ho, Ho, Chibnall has got to go!
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  10. #30
    Captain cosmichobo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Timeless Children (3810 / 1210)

    Ok - I watched it...

    In the 1996 Telemovie the Doctor stated that he was half human, which at first could have been passed off as a joke, but then the Master confirmed it using the TARDIS to scan the Doctor. 9 years later, RTD rebooted the series properly, and the half-human thing was forgotten, ignored, treated as if it never happened. He could have kept that aspect of the Doctor going - even made a story-arc around it - who was the Doctor's parent/s?

    But - instead, even though McGann's Doctor IS canon, his half-human-ness? Not so much.

    20 years earlier in the The Deadly Assassin, long time writer and former WHO script editor, Terrance Dicks, set down the "12 regeneration limit" for Time Lords, in order to build his story regarding the return of the Master - who had used all of his lives. Less than a decade later, the rule was pivotal to Mawdryn Undead and The Five Doctors. In particular, we learned that the limit ensured that no one person could rule Time Lord society forever, lest they become corrupt (ahem China & Russia..)

    Whilst the rule was established well before I was born, and thus just treated in my head as "Doctor Who fact", the debut of The Five Doctors is a cherished memory from my childhood. The limitation on the Doctor's, and other Time Lords' lives seemed entirely "right" when viewed from the context of that story.

    Fast forward to the show's 50th anniversary and the showrunner needed to develop a work-around to the rule, but - no biggie - it just gave us Time of the Doctor. (I just wish they'd actually made an arc out of the concept, - the Doctor spending the whole season knowing he was nearing the end of his life, starting to show signs of his pending doom... rather than the way it was handled just in 1 story.

    Now, 2020...

    What Chibnall has done in this episode certainly adds a lot of mystery to the Doctor's past. How many lives has the Doctor really lived? How does that new storyline dovetail into established lore? Etc etc. But... If Chibnall doesn't follow up with some exploration of that new past in his next (last?) season, I wonder if this story will become a new half-human..?

    Overall, what I'm more frustrated about is the treatment of Gallifrey. Granted, the pay-off (regenerating Cybermen) was an interesting and terrifying concept, but why destroy Gallifrey again?! We've been there, done that. To achieve the same outcome, the Master could have done something akin to Evolution of the Daleks - "sharing" his DNA with the Cybermen to allow regeneration. Could have been much easier than destroying Gallifrey...

    Destroying Gallifrey pisses all over the 50th anniversary story, but also Capaldi's Doctor, and his anguish at trying to find the planet again.
    Last edited by cosmichobo; June 30th, 2020 at 03:20 AM.
    as seen on YouTube - thecosmichobo
    "How Doomsday Should Have Ended!" • "Bigger on the Inside?" • "The Doctor Falls - With Hartnell!"
    "The War Games - In 10 Minutes" • "Announcement of Jon Pertwee's death" •
    and lots more!

  11. #31
    Captain cosmichobo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Timeless Children (3810 / 1210)

    A bit more...

    In Seasons 25 and 26 script editor Andrew Cartmel tried to bring back some "mystery" to the character of the Doctor. For instance, we see the Doctor use his finger to put someone to sleep, as if it's some magical ability. We had Lady Peinforte in Silver Nemesis, who claimed to know the Doctor's big dark secret. And more. But, something that producer JN-T cut was this from Remembrance of the Daleks:

    Davros: In the end, you are merely another Time Lord.
    Doctor: Oh Davros, I am far more than just another Time Lord.

    Even JN-T saw the need to cut this.

    For me, what made the Doctor "special" was their belonging to this infinitely powerful race, and yet choosing to abandon that life, leave Gallifrey and explore the Universe, righting wrongs and being absolutely wonderful. There was no need for the Doctor to more than a Time Lord. It was this decision to leave the The Time Lords - the pinnacle of life in the Universe - that made the Doctor amazing.

    Now instead, the Doctor is "special" because she is not even Gallifreyan.

    I know, it's just a tv show... but, it isn't to me.
    Last edited by cosmichobo; March 6th, 2020 at 04:02 PM.
    as seen on YouTube - thecosmichobo
    "How Doomsday Should Have Ended!" • "Bigger on the Inside?" • "The Doctor Falls - With Hartnell!"
    "The War Games - In 10 Minutes" • "Announcement of Jon Pertwee's death" •
    and lots more!

  12. #32
    Air Force Chief of Staff Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Timeless Children (3810 / 1210)

    People do realize that Chibnall has written for Doctor Who before, right -- i.e. Torchwood.

    Besides -- series 13 is a go, and so far it's been confirmed that Bradley is leaving since he's been cast in a new ITV series.

    There wouldn't even have been 12 regenerations if Hartnell had been a strappy, healthy young man. That too is a made up thing so why is it so hard to grasp anything else that expands on that notion.

    Okay yeah... that means there are more female Doctors than just the two we met so far.
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  13. #33
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Timeless Children (3810 / 1210)

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    People do realize that Chibnall has written for Doctor Who before, right -- i.e. Torchwood.
    What ever became of that show? Oh, yes, it was cancelled.
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  14. #34
    Colonel Teddybrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Timeless Children (3810 / 1210)

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    Besides -- series 13 is a go, and so far it's been confirmed that Bradley is leaving since he's been cast in a new ITV series.
    Oh, that's a bummer. He's my favourite companion at the moment!

  15. #35
    Air Force Chief of Staff Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Timeless Children (3810 / 1210)

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    What ever became of that show? Oh, yes, it was cancelled.
    After what they did with whatever that last season was about... I have no issue with it. I'm not heartbroken about that cancellation. After Children of Earth, I really couldn't care less what happened to Torchwood.

    The American take on it was not exactly a winner.

    I wonder how you would feel about Chibnall's writing if you ever saw his other works, unrelated to Doctor Who or Torchwood -- like Broadchurch.
    Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum
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  16. #36
    Captain cosmichobo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Timeless Children (3810 / 1210)

    Every DW episode that Chibnall wrote before becoming Showrunner were average at best... Dinosaurs on a Spaceship for example... There was no shining light for me when he was announced as the upcoming showrunner.

    If DC Comics ran a storyline in which it was revealed that Superman was in fact not from Krypton, and Jor-El and Lara were his foster parents - there'd be riots at Comic-Con.
    as seen on YouTube - thecosmichobo
    "How Doomsday Should Have Ended!" • "Bigger on the Inside?" • "The Doctor Falls - With Hartnell!"
    "The War Games - In 10 Minutes" • "Announcement of Jon Pertwee's death" •
    and lots more!

  17. #37
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Timeless Children (3810 / 1210)

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmichobo View Post
    Every DW episode that Chibnall wrote before becoming Showrunner were average at best... Dinosaurs on a Spaceship for example... There was no shining light for me when he was announced as the upcoming showrunner.

    If DC Comics ran a storyline in which it was revealed that Superman was in fact not from Krypton, and Jor-El and Lara were his foster parents - there'd be riots at Comic-Con.
    1: I hate Chibnall as much as the next guy, but I have to admit I liked "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship". When the villain killed one of the triceratops? just for the sake of killing it, you could just feel The Doctor freeze over. Right then it was clear that he would not allow that guy to live, and he hung him by his own petard.

    2: You couldn't get me to accept that. But, sadly, there are a ton of folks who would lick it up like spilled milk.
    Last edited by Annoyed; March 8th, 2020 at 05:21 AM. Reason: added "not"
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

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