GateWorld Forum: 2020 Vision!

[WraithTech]

I am glad I said something on here, so that newbies visiting for Stargate, as foretold in the 2020 Vision statement, will better know what to expect of this forum in spite of what the 2020 Vision statement and rules say. As I said, as a Stargate fan, this has not been what I expected.

[Az'ryel]

I am glad I said something on here, so that newbies visiting for Stargate, as foretold in the 2020 Vision statement, will better know what to expect of this forum in spite of what the 2020 Vision statement and rules say. As I said, as a Stargate fan, this has not been what I expected.

neither what I would expect really

And it was neither what I have expected when I signed up here. I did not feel welcome and still sometimes I feel like hiding that I like the Wraiths and I really hope that things change, because the first post of this thread made me hope for it.

[WraithTech]

first post of this thread made me hope for it.

The first post of this thread is what made me come back to give the forum another try and seeing the hard work Darren put into the changes. But, then my art was stolen again, albeit by a different Stargate org, and it was not respectful. Maybe I will put my account in hibernation and try the forum again in another few years, if new people come who are excited about Stargate and support one another. The more I rewatch SGA, the more I like a lot of the characters and see similarities. I had wanted to start a doppelganger thread, but am afraid it would get derailed as the one about children was.

@Az'ryel, Thank you for making people feel welcome. I see how you post to help new people and support the characters. Back when I signed up, there were more people such you here, and, hopefully, there will be again.

[Annoyed]

I hate to point it out but fictional politics and religion are still very much allowed, and considering how climate change and political correctness are flung around in modern day television shows, you're gonna find that the fictional world mirrors the real world a lot closer -- behind a thin veil of "fiction".

Remember Star Trek: The Next Generation S1 E4 "Code of Honor"?

Remember, I am old enough to have watched that first run in 1987. I recall being amazed that that racist piece made it on the air, let alone on a Star Trek show.

You're right, there is and always will be crossover 'tween SciFi & Real Life. After all, Sci Fi is real life and "what if" mashed together.

[Falcon Horus]

Religion and politics are not race/sex/etc.

Again, I hate to break it to you but you only have to look at the political climate of bans/anti-discrimination laws and whatnot, to know that race/sex/etc are very much a political matter -- as much as they are social matters.

Hence why I asked them to close the LGBTQIA+ thread. It too contains political discussions, and therefore should be falling under the same rules of as "religion" and "politics".

(I'm probably the only one of that group still active, and activity is dwindling again since the new rules were put into place)

Remember Star Trek: The Next Generation S1 E4 "Code of Honor"?

Unfortunately no... I was 6 in 87 and I didn't start watching TNG until it was in reruns in the nineties. I watched it to learn English.

[Az'ryel]

There are people coming here to talk about Stargate because in RL no one cares or laughs at them for liking the shows, they come here to find others who like the same. This should feel like home to everyone and not like yet another place where they get grounded for their opinion.
To some it's just a hobby, to others these shows give meaning and perspective to their life, they overcome obstacles following a character's example and such and it hurts those people badly if what they care for so much is attacked harshly. I do not say everyone has to always agree, but only because someone thinks someone else is an idiot, there is no need to say that right out
That does happen in other places around the internet so often as well as in real life and if any of you ever felt bad for liking a character or a show really really much because someone told you it is not clever or silly to like it, then help to make this forum again a place where no one has to feel bad for what shows or characters they like

[Annoyed]

Unfortunately no... I was 6 in 87 and I didn't start watching TNG until it was in reruns in the nineties. I watched it to learn English.

Go find a copy of that and watch it. Hard to believe they crammed that many racial stereotypes into a single hour.

[WraithTech]

Again, I hate to break it to you but you only have to look at the political climate of bans/anti-discrimination laws and whatnot, to know that race/sex/etc are very much a political matter -- as much as they are social matters.

Hence why I asked them to close the LGBTQIA+ thread. It too contains political discussions, and therefore should be falling under the same rules of as "religion" and "politics".

(I'm probably the only one of that group still active, and activity is dwindling again since the new rules were put into place)

So, an off-topic thread (which also didn't follow its own rules as being for LGBTQIA+ and allies) might be or was closed.

Again, I hate to break it to most of the people in here but I only care about.... (drum roll).... Stargate!!!

Seems anyone who wants to talk Stargate would be better off with the Stargate Fan Club on Facebook. More mods and a lot more Stargate posts.

[VampyreWraith]

Remember Star Trek: The Next Generation S1 E4 "Code of Honor"?

Remember, I am old enough to have watched that first run in 1987. I recall being amazed that that racist piece made it on the air, let alone on a Star Trek show.

You're right, there is and always will be crossover 'tween SciFi & Real Life. After all, Sci Fi is real life and "what if" mashed together.

That's the one where Tasha Yar gets kidnapped by the ruler of a planet right?

But yeah, sci-fi and politics/social issues kind of go hand in hand.

Everyone is going to have their own opinions/views on certain topics, especially if it's something that's close to them and their experiences, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, they just need to respect other people and know that their opinions aren't fact and not try to force their opinion/views on others or start bullying people who don't see things the same way as they do. Unfortunately a lot of people don't know how to do that, especially when things like politics and religion (and shipping lol) come up.

[Az'ryel]

Everyone is going to have their own opinions/views on certain topics, especially if it's something that's close to them and their experiences, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, they just need to respect other people and know that their opinions aren't fact and not try to force their opinion/views on others or start bullying people who don't see things the same way as they do. Unfortunately a lot of people don't know how to do that, especially when things like politics and religion (and shipping lol) come up.

Thank you, I guess respect is also the thing the staff wants us to have discussions with and it is also what I was trying to say. Even with those new rules discussions can take place, on a respectful base.

[Falcon Horus]

Go find a copy of that and watch it. Hard to believe they crammed that many racial stereotypes into a single hour.

I really should get on that. Especially with me watching Picard right now.

So, an off-topic thread (which also didn't follow its own rules as being for LGBTQIA+ and allies) might be or was closed.

It's not closed (yet).

Again, I hate to break it to most of the people in here but I only care about.... (drum roll).... Stargate!!!

You can still talk about all that and more. Nobody's stopping you from talking/discussing/watching stargate.
At least, no one I know is stopping your from doing that.

Seems anyone who wants to talk Stargate would be better off with the Stargate Fan Club on Facebook. More mods and a lot more Stargate posts.

That's because forums are a dying breed of communication forms where people come to talk about things. The hot new places are cesspools like Facebook, twitter, Tumblr (is that still hot?), YouTube maybe.

If Gateworld did away with every topic that wasn't related to Stargate, I can guarantee you the forum would be dead by the end of the year -- if it already won't be with the way activity has been dwindling... and not just since the rule changes.

I'm still waiting for all those newbies that were too afraid to come in and join for whatever daunting reason. I don't see them en mass in the stargate threads -- episode or character, or technology.

How many of those that signed up in recent weeks have actually stuck around long enough? They sign up, hardly if ever introduce themselves, go about posting 1 or 2 posts. Find that they are on moderation so their posts won't show up and when they do, chances are the conversation has long since moved passed the topic they replied to -- well, it might have considering activity is ... well... lacking at the moment.

At least on Facebook, they immediately are part of the collective...

[Annoyed]

So, an off-topic thread (which also didn't follow its own rules as being for LGBTQIA+ and allies) might be or was closed.

Again, I hate to break it to most of the people in here but I only care about.... (drum roll).... Stargate!!!

Seems anyone who wants to talk Stargate would be better off with the Stargate Fan Club on Facebook. More mods and a lot more Stargate posts.

But... Aren't those non-Stargate threads in sections clearly labeled for other shows or off-topic altogether? If you don't want to read non-Stargate material, don't click on those threads?

[Annoyed]

That's the one where Tasha Yar gets kidnapped by the ruler of a planet right?

Yep, that's the one. Granted, TNG's first season was not a winner, but I was really surprised that even made it past network censors, which were far stricter in that era, as cable was in its infancy and most of the stations that carried it had F.C.C. licenses to worry about.

[Darren]

Suggestion: Send an auto-reply for reports which have made it or have mods write back something such as “Thanks, the mods will keep watch on this.” Or “Thanks, the mods will discuss this.” Or “Thanks, the mods are watchfully waiting at this time.”

I see Darren’s webmaster email. Is there an email which reaches all three of you in one address?

Thank you, WraithTech. These are good, constructive suggestions.

Implementing an auto-reply for received mail would be tricky, as it needs to be executed at the inbox level and not the mail server level (where a message might still be lost after an auto-reply has been sent). And I am the only mod who uses an @gateworld.net e-mail address.

I can look into an easier way for folks to contact all the mods at once, without having to look up our usernames for a group PM, or find a post to report. This will likely be a contact form on the main site.

As a fan of one of the galactic races of the franchise, I have not felt welcome since around when Origins came out. As the moderation rules got more lax, non-canon posts about the races, posts bashing the lore’s entire races, and even posts calling for genocide of the lore’s races proliferated. I have seen this not only for Wraith, but also Jaffa, Unas, and Asurans. Several thoughtful posts I tried to make were derailed, only to have other folks paraphrase my posts on other platforms for thorough discussions which should have been done here.

I'm sorry to hear that you have encountered repeated posts and attitudes that you felt were hostile toward you and your fandom personally. I know that's not fun.

Those of us who were middle schoolers and young teenagers in the early 90s loved Wesley Crusher, and couldn't figure out why the adult TNG fans were constantly hating on him ... and, vicariously, attacking those who liked the character!

We'll need to figure out a way to moderate such discussions that allows people to express their dislike of something from the fictional universe (an episode, a story choice, a character, an alien race, etc.) without that becoming vitriolic and making the forum no longer fun for others. This may take the case of a private talking-to from the mods, should there be a case where a particular member is going overboard and (for example) cutting down other fans who might like something they dislike.

That's what we were after when we first implemented the rule against character bashing. "Bashing" does a lot of work there: it doesn't outlaw any negative statement pertaining to a character, but instead a hostility that is deemed over the top (in intensity, or because it is ongoing and constant -- i.e., someone is going after Jonas and just. won't. let. it. go.). We'd gotten to a place (circa 2003/2004, IIRC) where some folks appeared to be using their attacks on a character as veiled attacks on people who love that character.

I can't see how to apply this, in an even-handed way, to races and other elements of lore at the level of the Forum Rules. In particular the shows' antagonists are written to be "hated" by the viewing audience. It's natural to have negative emotion directed toward Senator Kinsey, or the System Lords, or the Wraith. A fan forum ought to be a place to express that. It means they are written as effective antagonists.

On the other hand, it's also fair to level criticism in an objective way about how these are being written by the writers (within the bounds of respect for TPTB). Expressing disapproval of, or frustration with, how Daniel's character is being utilized in Season 5; or how the Ori are acting incompetently; or how a Hive Queen is two-dimensional; etc. ... all these can be expressed tactfully, and passionately, without rising to the level of bashing or directing abuse toward other fans.

So the mods will have to continue to look at these things on a case-by-case basis. But if you feel like someone may have crossed a line, or that another member is following you around criticizing your likes and dislikes, I do hope you will bring this to the mods' attention.

[Annoyed]

How about just assuming that whatever epitaphs that are hurled are targeted on the fictional characters & not reading more into it than is there?

[Az'ryel]

How about just assuming that whatever epitaphs that are hurled are targeted on the fictional characters & not reading more into it than is there?

It can be really hard for people not feeling personally attacked or hurt when someone is being harsh and attacks a character they like. There are a lot of reasons people can form deep connections to fictional characters, so they become more than just that...friends, mentors, some might even have a crush on them. If that is the case, that character being attacked can feel to the person who has such connection to said character like a real life or online friend, who is an actual human being is attacked, which of course is hurtful

Even though that is not the case for me I know people who have such connections to a character who would totally feel hurt if someone says anything nasty about that character they like

[Annoyed]

It can be really hard for people not feeling personally attacked or hurt when someone is being harsh and attacks a character they like. There are a lot of reasons people can form deep connections to fictional characters, so they become more than just that...friends, mentors, some might even have a crush on them. If that is the case, that character being attacked can feel to the person who has such connection to said character like a real life or online friend, who is an actual human being is attacked, which of course is hurtful

Even though that is not the case for me I know people who have such connections to a character who would totally feel hurt if someone says anything nasty about that character they like

I just don't get how someone can let another person's negative opinion of a fictional character affect their own personal self-esteem or whatever you want to call it.

And if you can't say anything critical about a fictitious character for fear of hurting someone like that's feelings, how can you have a discussion?

If I say Khan Noonien Singh is a meglomaniac nut case whom Kirk never should have revived in "Space Seed", and someone has a crush on him or feels some other connection (using your examples) to him, That is against the rules under your interpretation, when all I'm really saying is that Khan was, is and always will be evil.

[Ascended Jonas]

Feel free to say to me that I bash too much the creative choice that the Ancients are basically humans. Because I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable.
But it is my personally opinion that the Ancients is humans for me it is a not great creative choice but I think I understand why the writers chose that option.

Again, I hate to break it to you but you only have to look at the political climate of bans/anti-discrimination laws and whatnot, to know that race/sex/etc are very much a political matter -- as much as they are social matters.

Hence why I asked them to close the LGBTQIA+ thread. It too contains political discussions, and therefore should be falling under the same rules of as "religion" and "politics".

(I'm probably the only one of that group still active, and activity is dwindling again since the new rules were put into place)



Unfortunately no... I was 6 in 87 and I didn't start watching TNG until it was in reruns in the nineties. I watched it to learn English.

Gateworld has a LGBTQIA+ thread?!?

[Az'ryel]

I just don't get how someone can let another person's negative opinion of a fictional character affect their own personal self-esteem or whatever you want to call it.

And if you can't say anything critical about a fictitious character for fear of hurting someone like that's feelings, how can you have a discussion?

If I say Khan Noonien Singh is a meglomaniac nut case whom Kirk never should have revived in "Space Seed", and someone has a crush on him or feels some other connection (using your examples) to him, That is against the rules under your interpretation, when all I'm really saying is that Khan was, is and always will be evil.

I think it's not so much about having to understand that, it is enough if one keeps in mind that saying rude or offending things about a character can hurt others
That does not entirely mean that one cannot say anything critical, but there is a better way to say that. Instead of saying

Khan Noonien Singh is a meglomaniac nut case

you can say "I think...." this makes it clear without any doubt that it is just your opinion and not a given fact.

It is but a small thing but can make a difference for if you say someone is stupid, another person can feel like they are stupid for liking someone stupid. When you say you think someone is stupid, the other person who likes that character can likely live with it better because they can tell it is your opinion they do not have to agree with. An opinion is likely to hurt less because it (or the one who has it) could be ignored, whereas if it feels like a fact it can be taken personal

Edit: To make it clear, when I write "you" here I mean you in general, this post is not addressed to Annoyed or a specific user. I was just taking what Annoyed said as an example to quote from

[SGalisa]

Without repeating what others above have already stated, here are a few examples of what I have learned over the years of being here on GW.

The positive influences...
I don't remember how I found GW, but I followed it for a few years before I actually joined. I liked watching SG-1, and in the beginning, the conversations were interesting. Eventually, GW expanded to other sci-fi programs, which I also found intriguing. I looked at GW as my #1(enjoyable and detailed) "go to" sci-fi site. Some of this border-lined on real life inventions to help make our RL-habitats capable of exploring new worlds beyond our own solar system.

The negative intrusions...
About Tv/Film character bashing, years ago when Battlestar Galactica was revamped into more brutal, gutteral tones than its original BSG (with male Starbuck), I found myself feeling "ganged-up" on by the majority of viewers on the main thread who liked the more violent direction the revamped series had taken. The few of us who tried to enjoy both series, but felt dissatisfied with the ganging up issues, some of us got tired of it and left the thread. I wasn't fond of the violence, but felt that was the direction future sci-fi wanted to go into and any discussions to sway against that weren't helping no matter how constructive the arguments became.

As for character dislikes, again I found myself trying to defend something as simple as poor Joe Flanigan's hair "cowlicks" while he portrayed Major John Sheppard in SGA. Seriously, if a person's real hair becomes a major roadblock in discussing a storyline and not something just humorously there, isn't that being a bit on the super *petty* side of life? Any outside observer couldn't help but wonder if most of those disliking Joe's hair were either jealous of "John Sheppard's" character or among his coworkers or former schoolmates poking "fun" at him, and adding angst to his character.

Those sorts of issues seemed to go beyond just mere poking at or *teasing* and instead veered in the direction of outright casting people out of the topic completely, simply because they held a minority POV of what how they viewed either the story lines or characters. There were complaints of people getting negative "reputation" comments just because they disagreed with some things in the new BSG series. The only safe recourse to avoid getting chewed out with negative "reputation" comments was to avoid posting in those topics completely.

I am grateful to the few folks who have made me want to stay here and learned, if not participate in helping go forward to a positive and vibrant future that is worth looking forward to.