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  1. #1
    Probie grobanix's Avatar
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    Default lanteans in tau'ri mythology

    Some lanteans appeared in rome mythology. (for example Janus - god of gates, time, beginnings and endigs)
    But in which mythology they appeared too?

  2. #2
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: lanteans in tau'ri mythology

    English, Buddhist, possibly Confucian.
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

  3. #3
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: lanteans in tau'ri mythology

    All we know that Merlin has also showed up in the medieval times as the whole Arthurian legendary was based on his and his knights acts. So if Camelot was an offworld place then somebody must have visited people on Earth and take them there without the Stargate as the first two were still buried in Antarctica and Egypt. So maybe aliens come here with ships, chrystal skulls, Stonehenge teleportation, Asgard involvement so any other way. Not to mention Sokar who managed to grab some people even later.

    Since the Romans have spoken Latin it also means that some of their anchestors must have been contacted by some Ancients or they have revealed themselves as humans after returning from Atlantis. But there is a huge time gap there as if they have returned 10000 years ago that means 8000BC. So something is still missing in the lore here as well.

    The Ancients were the builders of the gate system, like Romans were the road builders. This is a nice little connection between the two empire. Question is why would the ascended Ancients help to establish the Roman Empire? Was Janus a time traveller?

    Don't forget that Egeria's name has also come from Roman mythology :
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egeria_(mythology)

    There was an SG comic called "Fall of Rome" as well, but I haven't read it. Maybe that would reveal more informations about the Ancients-Roman culture connection.

    Hopefully we could get more answers in the future spinoffs as the SG timeline has got plenty of historical eras to discover.

  4. #4
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: lanteans in tau'ri mythology

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    So if Camelot was an offworld place then somebody must have visited people on Earth and take them there without the Stargate as the first two were still buried in Antarctica and Egypt.
    The Antarctica gate became unburied at some point after Ra left 5,000 years ago. We know that it was accessibly by the medieval era, and given that every known offworld site established by Merlin had a Stargate, I'd be surprised if he wasn't using the Stargate on Earth during that time. I also wouldn't be surprised if we had learned that he was the one who unburied it.

    Slightly unrelated fun fact: Camelot was actually invented by the French in the late 1100s, so for Camelot to be a real place that means that a court poet from that time got a hold of an ancient text that has not survived to the modern era and was not used by any of the earlier British writers of Arthurian legends.

    The Ancients were the builders of the gate system, like Romans were the road builders. This is a nice little connection between the two empire. Question is why would the ascended Ancients help to establish the Roman Empire? Was Janus a time traveller?
    I think Janus is the most likely culprit for the connection between the Ancients and the Romans. Not only did they know his name, but we know that Janus (or someone who had access to his research) rebuilt his time travel jumper after returning to Earth 10,000 years ago and used it on "Maybourne's planet" from season 8's "It's Good To Be King." We don't actually know when the jumper was abandoned, so it's quite possible that Janus last traveled to ~2,000 years ago and subsequently returned to Earth. He also could have visited Earth before abandoning the jumper.
    Last edited by Xaeden; January 29th, 2020 at 12:04 PM.

  5. #5
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: lanteans in tau'ri mythology

    The SG timeline is still full of holes and mysteries.

    Don't forget when Sokar has managed to bring medieval people from Earth in "Demons". But I am guessing that episose was not really a fan favorite anyway so maybe the writers have pretended it must be forgotten. Maybe Sokar has visited Earth with his ship, but then why would he not come back for more?

    Or I could imagine that maybe those folks where "borrowed" or conquested from a previously Asgard world. They have visited Earth time to time, so maybe they studied our evolution in different eras.

    And while the Ancients have spoken Latin, then why would they communicate with chemical signs? The Nox and the Asgard could definately talk and we have seen all 4 alien ABC too. Maybe the joker Furlings unorganic race and they needed such communication, but if they were so high tech and advanced then they could have found a better way. So as cool it has looked in Heliopolis, the whole floating periodic table was just a memorial rather than serious talk.

  6. #6
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: lanteans in tau'ri mythology

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    The SG timeline is still full of holes and mysteries.

    Don't forget when Sokar has managed to bring medieval people from Earth in "Demons". But I am guessing that episose was not really a fan favorite anyway so maybe the writers have pretended it must be forgotten. Maybe Sokar has visited Earth with his ship, but then why would he not come back for more?
    That's what I was referring to when I said "we know that it was accessibly by the medieval era." It hasn't been touched upon too much, but there's not a hole there. In "Demons," the writers very clearly pointed the finger at the Beta gate...

    DANIEL
    Which means they probably had to have been taken from somewhere in medieval Europe through the Antarctic gate.


    Obviously this isn't confirmed within the context of the show because that would be hard to crowbar in organically. They'd have to have Sokar or an underling talk about it, see it happen via time travel, or find some written source, and that's unnecessary when you can just have Daniel offer an educated guess. It's also the most likely explanation as ship travel was impractical prior to the season 1 finale when the Goa'uld hyperdrive engines were upgraded. Before then they could only travel at 10 times the speed of light, and sending a ship on a years long journey to collect some humans before then spending additional years traveling back to is simply not worth it. A mothership was too valuable of a resource to take out of play for that long in exchange for such a small prize. The Goa'uld had motherships to throw around in the later seasons, but Apophis was severely weakened when he lost two, so it seems they went on a ship building spree after upgrading their hyperdrive engines.

    Anyway, the idea that the Beta gate was active for a good chunk of time after the Giza gate was buried was already documented in "Solitudes." There, Daniel said that "it could have even been buried until recently otherwise the Goa'uld would have continued to use it," but recently is relative for a historian and he also said that it would explain other cultures they encountered:

    DANIEL
    How many Earth-based cultures have we encountered from other worlds from periods both before and after we think the Stargate was buried?

    HAMMOND
    Several, I think.


    We also know that Apophis tried to reach earth through the Beta gate as his guards were found next to it in "Solitudes." That was referenced again in season 6's "Frozen..."

    MICHAELS
    I mean we've been here four years running. Since we dug out those two Jaffa we've found nothing. If this latest lead turns out to be…


    So we have a few lines of dialogue from several episodes that reference Daniel's belief that the Beta gate was used to take humans off earth a number of times after the Giza gate was buried. We have Daniel linking that established belief to Sokar and we have evidence that a Goa'uld other than Sokar attempted to gate to earth in the past and ended up in Antarctica. It seems fairly cut and dry to me that the writers were communicating to us that the Beta gate was unburied (temporarily or for good) at least as early as the medieval era.

    And while the Ancients have spoken Latin, then why would they communicate with chemical signs? The Nox and the Asgard could definately talk and we have seen all 4 alien ABC too. Maybe the joker Furlings unorganic race and they needed such communication, but if they were so high tech and advanced then they could have found a better way. So as cool it has looked in Heliopolis, the whole floating periodic table was just a memorial rather than serious talk.
    Well, Daniel did refer to the elemental depictions as a universal language designed to "ensure communication," but right after that bit, Earnest told Daniel to turn the page and that's when this happens...


    DANIEL
    Are you saying that this— this is— this is like a book?

    ERNEST
    I tried to read it. I tried to understand, but—

    DANIEL
    A hundred and forty-six elements, letters, or word symbols. If they're letters, if they're pictographic— I mean— this could take a lifetime.


    Earnest then said that it was a "collaboration of the knowledge of these four alien species." It seems to have been a comprehensive information exchange and not just about sharing depictions of atoms. That's important because, if you're trying to share information you need to know the basis of each other's science. Catherine compared the four and said they were almost identical:

    CATHERINE
    This is incredible. I mean, we've only been able to speculate on the actual appearance and structure of an atom. The fact that four completely alien races chose to represent it visually in an almost identical way…


    The Four Races were probably also comparing how the others depicted them because doing so is the basis to understanding more advanced scientific knowledge that is shared.

    Don't forget either that Earnest described in his journal that there were "four distinct languages," so they were definitely communicating their languages to each other in the end.
    Last edited by Xaeden; January 29th, 2020 at 09:16 PM.

  7. #7
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: lanteans in tau'ri mythology

    Thanks for the detailed answers. I also like reading transcripts when my memories are fading about episodes. What I wanted to say if Sokar really would have come through the Stargate via the Antarctic, then it would completly destroy the seriousness of the rebellion against Ra. And why would they not return for more people? Same goes with the ships. If the Goa'uld could have visited Earth then what would prevent them for returning? I believe such parts of the lore could be still explained in thenext spinoff. The ascended Ancients or the Asgard or the returned Merlin could have guarded our solar system to preserve the Tauri in the timeline. Maybe other alien races have visited us with different methods, so there is plenty of storytelling.

  8. #8
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: lanteans in tau'ri mythology

    Earth has little value. It's in Ra's territory, so a rival Goa'uld can't establish a base of operations on earth and there are no rare materials there. Its only value is in the potential slaves that live there, but generally the system lords have enough slaves that they've been content to abandon humans on probably hundreds of worlds over the centuries. Some they let be after rebellions led to the gate being buried despite the presence of naquadah, others they just seem to have lost interest in.

    Slaves also pass hands when the Goa'uld take territory from one another, so expansionism doesn't require new "stock" and the system lords do not fight wars of devastation when warring among one another because all sides want to be able to expand their power by absorbing human slaves, Jaffa, ships, planets, etc., when they win. That's why earth was such a problem for them. For one reason or another, they couldn't bombard earth from space, and their armies utilized weapons of "honor," not war. Jaffa staff weapons were inaccurate, single fire weapons of terror because that suited them until an outsider who didn't play by their rules came around and couldn't be dealt with via the usual method (orbital bombardment). They're essentially the British who had a system of fighting that worked well as long as the other party agreed to it, but proved fatal when guerilla tactics were instead used against them. It also hurt them quite a bit when they couldn't use their ships, as was frequently a problem in the American Revolutionary War as colonists were able to retreat inland (and got significant help from the French navy).

    That any Goa'uld were interested in trying to dial earth and, upon learning that a connection was possible, went there to collect slaves strikes me as unusual. Both given the aforementioned reasons and because there were lots of previously abandoned worlds to collect slaves from and a great many of them never (from all appearances) buried their gates. For whatever reason, Sokar had a need to restock/beef up his slave population and chose to get them from earth. After that, the DHD stopped working, so when Apophis also figured out a connection was possible and sent scouts through, h. In season 1, Teal'c explained that's how the Goa'uld operate: they sent Jaffa scouts to through first and if they don't hear back, they write that planet off.

    I don't think future writers need to say that someone was guarding earth. I think the issue is sufficiently explained by the slow Goa'uld hyperdrives prior to the season 1 finale and the fact that the Goa'uld abandoned so many human worlds throughout the galaxy, but there's definitely room to explore more of the Beta gate's history. I would, for example, like to know exactly when and why the Beta gate became accessible again. Was it just because of the shifting of the ice? Was it Merlin? Did it go even further than that to perhaps the Roman era? Were there periods where it was accessible and then not again because of the shifting of the ice? Also, what other post-rebellion cultures might be out there because of the Beta gate and why?

  9. #9
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: lanteans in tau'ri mythology

    I agree with some part of your answer. Somehow I have always considered Earth is an important planet in the galaxy.

    Since the humans slaves and even the cultures have come from Earth and the Goa'uld also lives technically almost forever with the use of sarcophagus, I doubt that they will ever forget the Tauri. It is also an interesting question how they have learned the god act from their slaves or the the culture was influenced by the Goa'uld. Like which one was first the egg or the chicken. It must have been the culture as it was established the Goa'uld were only pretenders. Maybe Earth has fallen into fading legends after the rebellion against Ra.

    Tauri has also played an important role as the planet was called Avalon in the Merlin era. We know that Dakara has become the capital after their return when they have tried to re-create life (Vancouver forests add-on basically ).

    I always wanted to connect some episodes to that era when Earth was visited by other alien races. Maybe the Ancients have called them there to study the gate system and they all lived together (Garden of Eden type scenario) until the Goa'uld has also arrived on Earth and it has ruined everything. You know the glyphs were drawn after star constellations on our sky, but that view is visible only on our planet. It would be nice to add a scene like that in an future SG episode.

    Talking about star constellations. They have stated that the Abydos cartouches are not accurate anymore as the galaxy is drifting, spinning and expanding. It is fine even if it doesn't look right since 5-10 years is nothing in comparsion to the age of the galaxy. But then how can it happen that Merlin has put gate addresses on objects in season 10? If those events have happened 1000-1200 years ago, then the sword or the cube should also not be accurate. That seems to be a little plothole in the lore.
    Last edited by Platschu; February 3rd, 2020 at 01:57 AM.
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  10. #10
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: lanteans in tau'ri mythology

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    It is also an interesting question how they have learned the god act from their slaves or the the culture was influenced by the Goa'uld. Like which one was first the egg or the chicken.
    It's possible that the Goa'uld created the character of a god here or there, but by and large it very much seems that they pretended to be gods that humans already believed and then influenced the stories people told about them. We saw Sokar doing that with his Devil persona and the Goa'uld portray gods from many different cultural backgrounds and with names that link to many different languages, so there's no way the majority of these are characters that the Goa'uld introduced humans to.

    We know that Dakara has become the capital after their return when they have tried to re-create life (Vancouver forests add-on basically ).
    The Dakara device was built by the plague infected Ancients before Atlantis left for the Pegasus galaxy 5-10 million years ago. The planet itself was always significant to the Ancients as it was the first one they landed on after spending thousands of years traveling from the Ori galaxy.

    Talking about star constellations. They have stated that the Abydos cartouches are not accurate anymore as the galaxy is drifting, spinning and expanding. It is fine even if it doesn't look right since 5-10 years is nothing in comparsion to the age of the galaxy. But then how can it happen that Merlin has put gate addresses on objects in season 10? If those events have happened 1000-1200 years ago, then the sword or the cube should also not be accurate. That seems to be a little plothole in the lore.
    Gate addresses correspond to an unknown amount of space, so it's hard to say how much time needs to go by before a star will drift from one designated zone to another and drag a Stargate with it. After 6,000 years, Abydos' gate address still worked while further off addresses needed updating. Carter said it would take a few thousand more years before Abydos' address , so I don't know that a 1,000 year old address located at an unknown point in the galaxy wouldn't still be up-to-date. Also, early on, the SGC's computer would calculate address corrections for them. It was a slow process that would make cartouche addresses workable in drips. Jack apparently devised a formula that sped that up in "Fifth Race:"

    CARTER
    And, Sir, I believe that the equation Colonel O'Neill wrote on the blackboard is a revolutionary formula for calculating the distance between planetary bodies.


    Between that and 9-10 years of computer advancements, it's possible the SGC's dialing program could make the necessary calculations to establish a connection with an address effected by stellar drift automatically.

    Also, stellar drift does not cause the symbols in a gate address to change. DHDs have correlative updates that take stellar drift into account and reassign 6 coordinate addresses to new points in space when appropriate, so gate addresses will remain the same after thousands and even millions of years. Because Earth does not have a DHD, this does not happen, so they have to do their own calculations and tell their dialing program to look in X location instead of Y when inputing the first 6 symbols.
    Last edited by Xaeden; February 3rd, 2020 at 01:40 PM.

  11. #11
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: lanteans in tau'ri mythology

    Wow. You have got good lore knowledge. thanks again for the long and detailed answer.

    Just a theory. If the gate address is not correct because of the star drifting, then the wormhole wouldn't be established anyway. Would the system not choose the closest available stargate? So even if they wouldn't compensate the drifting, then the size of the solar systems are so big that only one particular stargate can occupy a certain part of the galaxy.
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  12. #12
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: lanteans in tau'ri mythology

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    Wow. You have got good lore knowledge. thanks again for the long and detailed answer.

    Just a theory. If the gate address is not correct because of the star drifting, then the wormhole wouldn't be established anyway. Would the system not choose the closest available stargate? So even if they wouldn't compensate the drifting, then the size of the solar systems are so big that only one particular stargate can occupy a certain part of the galaxy.
    They couldn't get a lock with existing addresses until doing their recalculations, so it wouldn't choose the closest available address. The 6 chevrons tell the Stargate where to look for a gate. In the movie, James Spader draws a 3-dimensional box and explained that each side of the box represents a a chevron. Like so...

    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20070112001028

    Imagine the galaxy divided up into boxes like that, so when you dial an address, you're dialing a specific "box." If there's an active Stargate within however big the box is, you can establish a connection. If not, nothing happens, and you either have to give up or try dialing another six pointed box in space.

    DHD correlative updates will reassign gate addresses to apply to different boxes when necessary, so a gate address won't change when a star drags a Stargate from one box to another if you have a DHD to automatically reassign an address to a new area of space.

  13. #13
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: lanteans in tau'ri mythology

    I know about this concept, but it is not just a simple 39x39x39 (x,y,z) cooedinates as it is much more complicated as the six side of this hipothetical box can be far away from each other, so the galaxy can be split into much more location with the technically a second coordinate system (x2,y2,z2), where complete star constellations or are equal to numbers. So I understand this concept and this is a really clever mathematical discription from the show creators.

    I was wondering that a few thousand years are nothing in comparsion to age of the galaxy. So even if a solar system would drift away in any direction, maybe some part of the original gate address would be the same or at least very similar (like even 2-4 chevrons could be the same). But I am not a mathematician just I have tried to imagine how would you compare and describe the new location to the old one.

    But back to lanteans. I wish they could touch more mythology in the future (Aztec, Indian, Tibetian etc.)

  14. #14
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: lanteans in tau'ri mythology

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    I know about this concept, but it is not just a simple 39x39x39 (x,y,z) cooedinates as it is much more complicated as the six side of this hipothetical box can be far away from each other, so the galaxy can be split into much more location with the technically a second coordinate system (x2,y2,z2), where complete star constellations or are equal to numbers. So I understand this concept and this is a really clever mathematical discription from the show creators.
    There are almost 2 billion different ways to dial 6 glyphs, and I would assume a "box" is bigger than a solar system if some gate addresses have remained fixed for 6,000 years, so I don't see why the galaxy can't be split into a series of boxes that are stacked one after another. The Milky Way is 100,000 light years across. If each gate address corresponds to an area of just 4 light years, that's 25,000 possible places a gate address could point to from one end of the galaxy to the other.

    I'm not saying that because that's the totality of the gate addresses needed to cover the whole galaxy (obviously). It's just a starting point to give a bit of scale, and I picked 4 light years as the starting point because the Sun's gravitational pull stops having an effect on celestial objects about 2 light years in any direction.

    If you look at the total volume of the Milky Way, you'd need a bigger sized cube. I don't know how many square light years are in the Milky Way, so I can't estimate how many light years each hypothetical box would have to be. Nevertheless, I think that it would be possible to cover the entire galaxy in invisible cubes that are big enough to fill the entire galaxy without any gaps and still small enough to keep the majority of the few thousand gates the Ancients spread around the galaxy from overlapping.


    I was wondering that a few thousand years are nothing in comparsion to age of the galaxy. So even if a solar system would drift away in any direction, maybe some part of the original gate address would be the same or at least very similar (like even 2-4 chevrons could be the same). But I am not a mathematician just I have tried to imagine how would you compare and describe the new location to the old one.
    The writers never touched on how glyphs are assigned to points in space, but since the DHD can reassign a gate address to a new area of space when stellar drift moves a gate, I would assume that there's no longer any rhyme or reason to it. Our Sun completes an orbit around the galactic core every ~250 million years, it's orbital path is irregular (think, snake-like), different stars move at different speeds, and there's also the matter of the galaxy as a whole moving and dragging everything with it. So even if the Ancients originally assigned glyphs in some pattern, the correlative update-reassigning process should have effectively randomized them by now.

    But back to lanteans. I wish they could touch more mythology in the future (Aztec, Indian, Tibetian etc.)
    I agree. The Beta gate literally opened the door for them to explore a lot of civilizations and mythologies that post-date the Giza rebellion, but we didn't get much from it besides passing references and superficial one-off episodes.
    Last edited by Xaeden; February 13th, 2020 at 06:37 AM.

  15. #15
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: lanteans in tau'ri mythology

    I agree with you. I have expressed myself wrongly. We know that the theoratical active gate using a few thousands years. Since the Goa'uld has made the map room on Abydos with the Egyptian hieroglyphs, they are galactic players maybe for 5-10 thousand years. The drifting is not necessarily important in comparsion to the age of the known universe (11 billion). It would be also not significant in comparsion to our Sun's way as you have just said. 250 million years vs. 10000 years. But anyway it is just a tale with some believable mathematial techno blabla, just I wanted to see if it is right or not.

    We also know that the Ancients are exploring for millions of years, so maybe they or the Furling have given the map to the Goa'uld. Maybe even the climate of Abydos was also different. Just because the map room was written with Egyptian hieroglyphs, I have assumed it must be written by the Goa'uld.

    The only reason I have started this as I was wondering if the Aschen can find out new gate addresses around themselves if they know only their own and the Volian world in the neighbourhood. They can also count the direction and the arrival time of the replicator distrupting ray from other gates (I am talking about the multidialing in Threads) like a radar or an echo as those signals were spreading in space too (we have to assume it was weakened).

    But anyway your point is also convincing that the size of the box can be as small or as big as they want. So the galaxy doesn't look like a pyramid where every brick are next to each other. So you are right this way even more space can be covered in the galaxy while two solar systems won't have a similar gate address necessarily.

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