I don't know if they ever explained it on the show, but where and when were Jaffa created?
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Are Jaffa a subspecies of humans?
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Yes they are (not directly stated, but clearly implied in "Hathor," among other episodes), and the Jaffa were first 'created' on Dakara (stated in "Reckoning, Part 1").
We don't know precisely when this happened, but the first Jaffa to rebel, the Sodan, did so "over 5000 years ago," (stated in "Babylon") so the Jaffa were 'created' at least as far back as 3000 BC."A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life
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Originally posted by Elite Anubis Guard View PostDo they just fail? The impression I got from Hathor and from Bloodlines is that the pouch is created manually at the right age.
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They are not modified humans as far as I remember as Nirrti and Anubis were still experimenting with the creation of hok'tar hosts. The ancestors of the Jaffas must have been transported as slaves so they used to be humans, where the Goa'uld Queens could make the x scar with their technology. Then the improved life, the changed physiology were thanked to the larvas while they gained their lojality and trust. So even the freed Jaffas will be "humans" again. But even seperated cultures could have accelerated evolution (like Jonas)."I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."
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Creating a pouch to house a larval Goa'uld can be done to a Jaffa or a human. The difference is that a human's pouch can be cured (or it can presumably be left empty) and they can go on to live a normal life, whereas a Jaffa will die because of their lack of an immune system. That is an engineered trait that makes them dependent on the Goa'uld both once they reach puberty and throughout the entirety of their lives.
This was definitively stated in "Birthright."
CARTER: "Teal'c ... these children have been genetically altered to depend on symbiotes and then had all access to them taken away. Their guardians believe this is the only way for them to survive."Last edited by Xaeden; 30 July 2019, 07:26 PM.
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Originally posted by Merle_Haggard View PostSo to answer your question, according to my own memory of the franchise, and confirmed by others here. The Jaffa are not a human subspecies. Genetically modified or not... They are human."A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life
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Sadly I can't remember the season nor the episode name. It was the one where SG1 encountered a planet in which the human inhabitants had been at war with each other for decades, and they had nueral-interfaces that enabled pilots to control their fighter jets remotely, but unfortunately it turned out that the side SG1 had allied, had similar ideals to the Nazi partly. Anyways in that episode I recall Teal'c saying something along the lines of; "Our ancestors were also originally from the Tau'ri," when referring to the Jaffa. I took that as canon confirmation that Jaffa descend from humans sequestered from Earth by the Goa'uld. Despite Hathor having some sort of a device that can give a human a sybiote incubating pouch, I was under the impression that the Jaffa our born with theirs, and that they've been genetically stronger then humans? Even when Teal'c was on Tretonin he seemed extraordinarily strong to me, but then again he could just be very well trained.
Usually a species is defined as individual organism which are similar enough to share genetic information in order to interbreed. If a Jaffa and a human can have a child that is not infertile, then they would definitely have to be considered members of our speices. Otherwise I guess they would be in the same genus but not quite human anymore; Homo mutabilis, Homo Jaffus?
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Originally posted by Ohmy Desalad View PostSadly I can't remember the season nor the episode name. It was the one where SG1 encountered a planet in which the human inhabitants had been at war with each other for decades, and they had nueral-interfaces that enabled pilots to control their fighter jets remotely, but unfortunately it turned out that the side SG1 had allied, had similar ideals to the Nazi partly.
Anyways in that episode I recall Teal'c saying something along the lines of; "Our ancestors were also originally from the Tau'ri," when referring to the Jaffa.
I am in fact a Jaffa, though like you my ancestors are descendants of the Tau'ri.
Despite Hathor having some sort of a device that can give a human a sybiote incubating pouch, I was under the impression that the Jaffa our born with theirs,
In "Bloodlines" (season 1, episode 11) we see a priest holding a glowing device over Rya'c's stomach:
https://www.gateworld.net/gallery/al...g1_111_430.JPG
The X is already there when the scene starts, but here's the device Hathor presses against Jack's body to create his pouch:
https://www.gateworld.net/gallery/al...g1_113_573.JPG
https://www.gateworld.net/gallery/al...g1_113_576.JPG
and that they've been genetically stronger then humans? Even when Teal'c was on Tretonin he seemed extraordinarily strong to me, but then again he could just be very well trained.
Usually a species is defined as individual organism which are similar enough to share genetic information in order to interbreed. If a Jaffa and a human can have a child that is not infertile, then they would definitely have to be considered members of our speices. Otherwise I guess they would be in the same genus but not quite human anymore; Homo mutabilis, Homo Jaffus?
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Originally posted by Xaeden View Post"The Other Side." Season 4, episode 2.
TEAL'C
I am in fact a Jaffa, though like you my ancestors are descendants of the Tau'ri.[/quot
Yes that's the one thanks!
Originally posted by Xaeden View PostThey are not born with them. A priest uses a device to create a pouch when a Jaffa reaches puberty. The difference, as previously stated, is that if this is not done a Jaffa will die because their immune systems fail at puberty, making them dependent on the Goa'uld to go on living. This is the result of genetic engineering.
In "Bloodlines" (season 1, episode 11) we see a priest holding a glowing device over Rya'c's stomach:
https://www.gateworld.net/gallery/al...g1_111_430.JPG
The X is already there when the scene starts, but here's the device Hathor presses against Jack's body to create his pouch:
https://www.gateworld.net/gallery/al...g1_113_573.JPG
https://www.gateworld.net/gallery/al...g1_113_576.JPG
Originally posted by Xaeden View PostSpecies is a lower taxonomic rank than genus. Organisms from a different genus definitely cannot reproduce. Organisms under a genus who are from a different species may or may not be able to reproduce and their offspring may or may not be fertile. Being able to have a child that is fertile does not "definitely" mean that the two parents are the same species. Neanderthals and humans share a genus (homo), but are different species who were able to have fertile children. The idea that two different species cannot produce a fertile offspring is an outdated definition from before genetic testing existed.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/species?s=t
Neanderthals might not be the best example, since it's still being debated whether or not they are considered an entirely different species or a subspecies of humans, in fact the more modern arguments starting from the 1970s, is that neanderthals are in fact a subspecies of homo sepian. If Jaffa were real, and they were able to have children with humans, then I suppose genetic testing would probably be the easiest way to determine whether or not they were a subspecies, but we could be reasonably certain that they were human. You would think that they would be a subspecies not only because of the modifications, but also due to the thousands of years of separation. I mean mind you Jaffa did live closely to humans, but inter marrying and inter racial romances between human and Jaffa, were probably considered scandalous in the Gou'uld empire. Though I don't doubt that they happened.
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