I don't know if they ever explained it on the show, but where and when were Jaffa created?
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Yes they are (not directly stated, but clearly implied in "Hathor," among other episodes), and the Jaffa were first 'created' on Dakara (stated in "Reckoning, Part 1").
We don't know precisely when this happened, but the first Jaffa to rebel, the Sodan, did so "over 5000 years ago," (stated in "Babylon") so the Jaffa were 'created' at least as far back as 3000 BC."A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life -
To the question in your title: The Jaffa are genetically engineered humans. The most noteworthy modification is that their immune systems fail at puberty to make them dependent on the Goa'uld to live.Comment
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Do they just fail? The impression I got from Hathor and from Bloodlines is that the pouch is created manually at the right age.sigpic
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The punches are created when needed, yes, but the Jaffa are genetically modified humans regardless of whether they have a pouch.Originally posted by Elite Anubis Guard View PostComment
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They are not modified humans as far as I remember as Nirrti and Anubis were still experimenting with the creation of hok'tar hosts. The ancestors of the Jaffas must have been transported as slaves so they used to be humans, where the Goa'uld Queens could make the x scar with their technology. Then the improved life, the changed physiology were thanked to the larvas while they gained their lojality and trust. So even the freed Jaffas will be "humans" again. But even seperated cultures could have accelerated evolution (like Jonas)."I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."
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Creating a pouch to house a larval Goa'uld can be done to a Jaffa or a human. The difference is that a human's pouch can be cured (or it can presumably be left empty) and they can go on to live a normal life, whereas a Jaffa will die because of their lack of an immune system. That is an engineered trait that makes them dependent on the Goa'uld both once they reach puberty and throughout the entirety of their lives.
This was definitively stated in "Birthright."
CARTER: "Teal'c ... these children have been genetically altered to depend on symbiotes and then had all access to them taken away. Their guardians believe this is the only way for them to survive."Last edited by Xaeden; 30 July 2019, 07:26 PM.Comment
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So to answer your question, according to my own memory of the franchise, and confirmed by others here. The Jaffa are not a human subspecies. Genetically modified or not... They are human.Comment
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They're not human. They have modified human genetic makeup, which perpetuates when they reproduce. That makes them an offshoot of humanity--a subspecies.Originally posted by Merle_Haggard View Post"A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After LifeComment
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Sadly I can't remember the season nor the episode name. It was the one where SG1 encountered a planet in which the human inhabitants had been at war with each other for decades, and they had nueral-interfaces that enabled pilots to control their fighter jets remotely, but unfortunately it turned out that the side SG1 had allied, had similar ideals to the Nazi partly. Anyways in that episode I recall Teal'c saying something along the lines of; "Our ancestors were also originally from the Tau'ri," when referring to the Jaffa. I took that as canon confirmation that Jaffa descend from humans sequestered from Earth by the Goa'uld. Despite Hathor having some sort of a device that can give a human a sybiote incubating pouch, I was under the impression that the Jaffa our born with theirs, and that they've been genetically stronger then humans? Even when Teal'c was on Tretonin he seemed extraordinarily strong to me, but then again he could just be very well trained.
Usually a species is defined as individual organism which are similar enough to share genetic information in order to interbreed. If a Jaffa and a human can have a child that is not infertile, then they would definitely have to be considered members of our speices. Otherwise I guess they would be in the same genus but not quite human anymore; Homo mutabilis, Homo Jaffus?
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"The Other Side." Season 4, episode 2.Originally posted by Ohmy Desalad View Post
TEAL'CAnyways in that episode I recall Teal'c saying something along the lines of; "Our ancestors were also originally from the Tau'ri," when referring to the Jaffa.
I am in fact a Jaffa, though like you my ancestors are descendants of the Tau'ri.
They are not born with them. A priest uses a device to create a pouch when a Jaffa reaches puberty. The difference, as previously stated, is that if this is not done a Jaffa will die because their immune systems fail at puberty, making them dependent on the Goa'uld to go on living. This is the result of genetic engineering.Despite Hathor having some sort of a device that can give a human a sybiote incubating pouch, I was under the impression that the Jaffa our born with theirs,
In "Bloodlines" (season 1, episode 11) we see a priest holding a glowing device over Rya'c's stomach:
https://www.gateworld.net/gallery/al...g1_111_430.JPG
The X is already there when the scene starts, but here's the device Hathor presses against Jack's body to create his pouch:
https://www.gateworld.net/gallery/al...g1_113_573.JPG
https://www.gateworld.net/gallery/al...g1_113_576.JPG
The collapse of their immune systems at puberty is the only genetically engineered trait that was confirmed in dialogue, but I agree that there's definitely reason to suspect that their strength was also enhanced.and that they've been genetically stronger then humans? Even when Teal'c was on Tretonin he seemed extraordinarily strong to me, but then again he could just be very well trained.
Species is a lower taxonomic rank than genus. Organisms from a different genus definitely cannot reproduce. Organisms under a genus who are from a different species may or may not be able to reproduce and their offspring may or may not be fertile. Being able to have a child that is fertile does not "definitely" mean that the two parents are the same species. Neanderthals and humans share a genus (homo), but are different species who were able to have fertile children. The idea that two different species cannot produce a fertile offspring is an outdated definition from before genetic testing existed.Usually a species is defined as individual organism which are similar enough to share genetic information in order to interbreed. If a Jaffa and a human can have a child that is not infertile, then they would definitely have to be considered members of our speices. Otherwise I guess they would be in the same genus but not quite human anymore; Homo mutabilis, Homo Jaffus?
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Originally posted by Xaeden View Post
TEAL'C
I am in fact a Jaffa, though like you my ancestors are descendants of the Tau'ri.[/quot
Yes that's the one thanks!
You have to wonder about the girls in the Hak'tyl and the Sodan warriors though, I mean I guess it's possible since Ishta was a priestess she could have smuggled such a tool out of Moloch's temple, that would enable her to preform the surgery on the members of the Hak'tyl when they reached puberty and were ready to receive a symbiote and it's possible to assume that one or more of the ancestors of the Sodan, had been a priest that was also able to pilfer one of those devices from the Goa'uld, which they still used in the 20/21st centuries or they otherwise reversed engineered it, goodness knows they had the time. But I your sort of left with the impression that the writers just forgot about the device.Originally posted by Xaeden View Post
Yes I know, I never said that a genus was a lower classification then a species. I was just saying that the simplest way to determine whether or not a Jaffa and a human are still part of the same species, was if we knew of a case where they were able to produce a fertile child. Genetic testing has definitely made taxonomical classification easier especially when dealing with a genetically similar group. But the above stated definition is still valid today, as you can see by doing a quick google search.Originally posted by Xaeden View Post
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/species?s=t
Neanderthals might not be the best example, since it's still being debated whether or not they are considered an entirely different species or a subspecies of humans, in fact the more modern arguments starting from the 1970s, is that neanderthals are in fact a subspecies of homo sepian. If Jaffa were real, and they were able to have children with humans, then I suppose genetic testing would probably be the easiest way to determine whether or not they were a subspecies, but we could be reasonably certain that they were human. You would think that they would be a subspecies not only because of the modifications, but also due to the thousands of years of separation. I mean mind you Jaffa did live closely to humans, but inter marrying and inter racial romances between human and Jaffa, were probably considered scandalous in the Gou'uld empire. Though I don't doubt that they happened.
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