Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What Went Wrong With Stargate?(Part I)

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    What Went Wrong With Stargate?(Part I)

    Very old time poster here. I used to post a lot here about a decade ago. I lost interest because of the reasons that I will elucidate below. I recently regained interest as I learned that there is a possibility for a fresh reboot of the entire franchise..

    So what went wrong with Stargate? I am going to suggest what I perceive were the key mistakes that made the franchise tank. I can't speak about Universe because I only watched a couple episodes. The impression I got from Universe is that it was trying too hard to be like Battlestar Gallactica., but I could be wrong about this. What I do know very well are SG-1, Atlantis and all the films. I watched the original film when I was a little kid back in 1994, and became a fan. Here are the key mistakes that made Stargate

    Giving the Tau'ri ships - There is a reason why the entire franchise is called Stargate. We shouldn't have star ships. The Stargates allows us to do something that we can't do at our present time: exploring our galaxy or other galaxies. The whole point of the show since early SG-1 is that we need to procure technologies throughout the galaxies to help us fight the technologically superior Goa'uld. If we have ships with hyperdrives, then why do we even need the Stargates? And if we can create a star ship with a hyperdrive, then why do we even need to explore the galaxy to find stuff to fight our enemies? We should be capable of creating weapons to fight our enemies on our own. We got the Prometheus I think still in relatively early SG-1, and from there we power crept in a few years to the Odyssey, which is superior one-on-one to pretty much any Ancient and Asgard ship, and only challenged by the upgraded hive from late SGA. This makes the entire show pointless. As I see it, the only time we should be inside a space ship would be if an alien race invited us in. The only ship that I would find acceptable would be a very crude one that is capable of reaching orbit or Mars at the most. That is the stuff we have now. The show happens in the very late 20th and early 21rst centuries, and our capabilities should reflect that. If I were to write the show, I would have ended SG-1 at the end of season 7 showing the Prometheus being built. Yes, we should only get our first space ship in the very last episode of SG-1, and I would make it pretty clear that we would need another 100 years of upgrades and improvements for one of our ships to fully stand up to a Ha'tak Mothership. As for things like Ori Motherships, Hive ships and Asuran Auroras, forget about it. These ships should be so far beyond our ability to match that the very thought of building ships capable of standing up to them should be completely unthinkable. We should be fighting the Ori, Wraith and Asurans with subterfuge, deception and by making political alliances with more powerful races than us. Being able to stand toe-to-toe against Ancient warships or, worse, against ships built with Ascended knowledge and blow them to bits completely kills the show. How are we supposed to be the underdogs if even a collective of Ascended Beings cannot create weapons better than ours?

    Showing the Ancients - We thought of the Ancients in early SG-1 as this magical race of enlightened beings that created all of these wonderful devices to help us fight the Goa'uld and then the Replicators. What we got instead, when they finally showed the Ancients in Atlantis, was a very fallible and more-or-less callous race that made huge blunders and hid behind their technologies. We even saw for instance in the episode of Atlantis, "The Game", that the Ancients ran social experiments on humans Worlds, treating the less evolved humans there as their lab rats. The Ancients were also cowards. When they lost the war to the Wraith, they used Ascension not as a tool of enlightnment, but simply as a way to escape the fate of defeat. Of course, the Ancients did not even have the dignity of teaching the less evolved humans of the galaxy how to ascend so that they wouldn't be eaten by the Wraith, even though the Wraith were directly their responsibility. Same thing in the MW Galaxy, where an Ancient scientist created Reese, which would create the first Replicator, which would vanquish the Asgard civilization and almost overun the MW Galaxy(and eventually the whole Universe). The Ancients never bothered to fix their ****. They should have never showed the Ancients. It wouldn't have shattered our imagine of them, and we would continue to see them as these magical enlightened beings like we did in early SG-1. What we got by showing them is pretty underwhelming to say the least. Also, let's face it: you cannot show the Ancients with the small budget and CGI of an early 2000's T.V show. If they wanted to show the Ancients, they should have waited until 2030 for CGI to reach the level needed and then have a summer block buster level budget. No matter what you do, the Ancients will come across as underwhelming with 2004-2009 CGI and a small T.V show budget.

    Killing off the Asgard - The Asgard were everyone's favorite race. They actually fullfilled the role of an enlightened advanced race far more than the Ancients ever did. And of course, the sole reason why the genocided the Asgard was so that Earth could leap forward a hundred generations instantly and become the most powerful race in the galaxy - and indeed actoss several galaxies - by making Earth inherit all of the Asgard's technologies. This ties in with another point that I'll make, about the power creep. We are supposed to believe that the Asgard could create hyperdrives capable of crossing galaxies in minutes and energy-matter converters, but they couldn't fix a simple genetic degradation problem. Or at least find alternative solutions for it. For instance, the Asgard could simply use their energy-matter converters to create mass human bodies and then download their consciousnesses there, or just build robot bodies and transfer their brains to them. Or maybe just download their consciousness into computers, and then have the Tau'ri continue working on the problem until they find a solution. But no: they just kill the Asgard off so that Earth can get cool plasma beam weapons to blow up Ori Motherships. Sad.

    Lack of interesting villains - Let's face it: the only interesting villain we ever got in Stargate was Ba'al. Apophis was also modestly interesting with his arc with Teal'c, but it got tiresome after a while. Ra was also interesting as the Supreme System Lord, but they killed him off in the original film so he doesen't count. All the other villains were either bland, or too one-dimensional or with unrealistic motivations. Here is how Stargate villains failed:

    Apophis --> An interesting megalomaniac at first with a whole story arc involving Teal'c as his Frist Prime. However, besides his involvement with Teal'c, he was just another bland System Lord: an egocentric megalomaniac with a one-dimensional personality.

    Yu --> Could have been an interesting antagonist to Anubis among the System Lords, but they killed him too easily, and he turned out to be a senile, confused and ultimately ineffective cannon fodder for the show.

    Anubis --:> A completely over-the-top psychopath and sadist with no other motivation besides causing as much death, suffering and destruction as possible for no other reason than to cause death, suffering and destruction. Part of what makes a character interesting are nuances to the personality, and Anúbis had none. He was as one-dimensionally evil as you can get. I can understand them making Anúbis as pure evil, since Anubis in Egyptian mythology is supposed to be the Devil himself. But how is a character that loves nothing but himself and is utterly committed to evil interesting? A character that cannot be redeemed is boring.

    RepliCarter --> Again, one-dimensional. All of the thoughts and memories of Sammy, but with none of her feelings, self-doubt and motivations. It would have been interesting as this self-aware leader of the Replicators, which is conflicted between her roles as leader of the legos and her desire to more than just a mass of nanites. But no, they made her just into a Terminatrix like the lead character in Terminator III, a goal-focused machine with no actual philosophical dilemas.

    Todd--> Another wasted potential. Todd promised a lot as this highly intelligent male born into a society where only females can be leaders. They could have made him a great villain, as someone who has the ambition of being a Wraith King, and can at least sympathtize with humans. This conflict could have been very interesting, his desire to preserve the Wraith and be their leader while at the same time admiring some humans and growing sympathy for them. Having to reconcilie that would have been interesting. In fact, we got glimpses of that when it came to the vírus that could turn Wraith into humans, when he asks if this is the right thing to do:"what will be of us then? Who will we be?". But they never explored that concept, and just had Todd turn on humans after he assumes that we betrayed him.

    Michael --> Michael had the potential to be the greatest Stargate villain ever. A Wraith that was turned into a human unwillingly, and experienced what it's like to be human. Now, being turned back into a Wraith but not completely, he has to live as not really a Wraith and not really a human. Think about all the philosophical dilemas that this entails. He is torn between his desire to become a Wratih again, and the fact that as someone who experienced what it's like to be human, now feels remorse over eating humans. This raises a whole bunch of philosophical questions about what it means to be human, what are the limits and how consciousness interacts with desires that are potentially immoral. but instead of going down that route, they turned him into just a mad scientist bent on destroying everything out of revenge. They chose the worst possible interpretation of the character and went with it.

    Wraith Queens --> Except for Queen Death, there were no interesting Queens in SGA. They just seemed to be one-episode one-dimensional human-eating monsters that existed only to die horrible deaths at the and of said episode.

    Oberoth --> A male version of RepliCarter but even more boring as his main motivations do not even revolve around us, but rather the Lantians and his desire for revenge. It does not even make sense why the Asurans can't ascend, since it has never been made clear in the show why ascension can only be achieved by biological beings since ascension is, ultimately, about the degree of development of consciousness. The Asurans were self-aware and clearly capable of feelings, like Niam.

    Adria --> Adria is a pointless character that seemed to be an excuse to show Morena Baccarin's cleavage. Why the Ori even need an Orici is beyond me. They already have a million priors to do their bidings, and they can channel all their abilities through them. And once Adria absorbed all the powers of the Ori Collective, instead of using her powers to just destroy the Arc of Truth, she uses them instead to telekinetically jerk Daniel around, giving SG-1 the chance to use the Arc against her. What a stupid villain.
    Last edited by NoobTau'ri; 30 June 2019, 01:57 PM.

    #2
    Repeated plots and characters - Late SG-1 and SGA started to repeat early SG-1. The best example is them bringing back the Replicators to fight the Ori in late SG-1 and then again in SGA. Here is all the repetition in the show:

    Rodney McKay --> Sam Carter with a penis. Literally a clone of Sammy of the opposite sex with higher levels of anxiety and less physical courage.

    Jon Sheppard --> A younger version of O'Neil but with none of the charm and wit of Jack. No one can be Jack O'Neil. No one. You can't beat McGyver after all.

    Elizabeth Weir --> The female version of General Hammond. They put a woman in charge of the Atlantis Expedition to make the feminist statement that women can be in charge. Ok. But at least put a competent woman in charge. Weir was a disaster, and even most hardcore SGA fans wanted her gone.

    Ronon Dex --> The SGA version of Teal'c. Of course, Teal'c is vastly more interesting than Ronon, who is just an angry thug bent on revenge on the Wraith.

    RepliWeir --> RepliCarter all over again, except incompetent and ineffectual. As boring as RepliCarter was, at least she was ruthless and efficient.

    "Lost Tribe" -- Brought back the Asgard simply because everyone was pissed that they were killed off in Unending.

    Ori --> Bigger and badder version of the Goa'uld. Actual gods, instead of just god impersonators.

    Priors --> Jaffa with magic sticks instead of make-belief magic sticks like the Jaffa.

    Asurans --> The human-form Replicators from season 7 SG-1. Literally the same characters except with different names.

    Lack of interesting human civilizations and human characters -- The entire MW and Pegasus Galaxies are full of humans, and yet all of them seem to be either killed in a couple episodes or just peons to be manipulated by the Tau'ri. They could have done so much more. Here is how Stargate underutilized the many human factions in Stargate:

    Aschen --> The Aschen could have been the biggest villains of all, even bigger than most System Lords. They were more advanced than Earth, not so much that they would ignore us, but just enough to see us as a potential future threat. The fact that they liked to colonize planets by killing the populations with slow-acting viruses that crippled their reproduction, makes them perfect adversaries for us since we hold interest in many of the same human Worlds that the Aschen seek to colonize and destroy. They could have done so much more by having Earth at the same struggle to stop them, while diplomatically trying to steal their biotechnology to fight the Goa'uld. Instead, we got a couple episodes where they discover the Aschen's plans for Earth quite easily and stop them. then, we never hear from the Aschen again. Presumably killed by some System Lord(maybe).

    Tollan --> These guys were a little too superior to us for us to be of any interest or threat to them. - at least until we got the Asgard upgrades. But still, they could have explored the relationships between individual humans and the Tollan. For instance, what if Sammy and Narim fell in love? What would the Tollan Council think of one of the most important of their citizens being in a relationship with one of the leading people on Earth that belongs to a program that involves around stealing alien technologies? Such a potentially interesting story, but we never got to see it.

    Tok'ra -- Sure, they are not totally human, but they are still 100% human in terms of personality and motivations. The early infighting among the Tok'ra about whether to betray their "gods" or not was interesting, but then they toned it down at the end in an United front against the Ori. That made them boring to the max.

    Lucian Alliance --> Ordinary criminals. As interesting as Mafiosi in a Scorsese film. Except for their role in getting people into the Destiny to explore the far reaches of the Universe, they were completely uninteresting.

    Genii --> The Genii to me were the best human villain faction in the show. Cowen was an interesting semi-villain. The problem with the Genii is that since they are stuck in the 1940's in terms of capabilities, they are not a credible threat to Earth.

    Satedans --> Not as interesting as the Genii, and same problem of being technologically backwards.

    The failure of Atlanis Expedition -- We went to Pegasus to retrieve Ancient stuff to help us fight the snakes in our own native galaxy. We found nothing of value, and made a much more dangerous enemy in the process.

    Not making the Stargate program public --> Making the Stargate program public would have opened a whole new dimension to the show. We could have explored what would happen as different nations tried to rumble with each other for some of the alien tech. Just imagine the struggles at the U.N, as nations accused each other of not sharing technology or trying to sabotage each other. We could have had several James Bond-like episodes revolving around espionage. Imagine a series of governments trying to hack into the SGC or Pentagon trying to retrieve information about the alien stuff the U.S is hogging for itself. They did some of this with SGC and the Russians struggling with each other, but since only 3 or 4 countries knew about the program, the dimension of the struggle was small. Imagine now 8 billion people in 200 countries knowing about it. Not to mention that a program as expensive as the Stargate Program not being revelaed to the public represents a serious threat to democracy. How much did the Prometheus, Korolev and Odyssey cost in tax payer Money? A trillion dollars? Ten trillion? How can you justify this without the tax payers even knowing about it? That would have made for a very interesting dilemma about whether it is proper to conceal something so expensive from tax payers for reasons of security.

    Ancient incompetence -- It is applaiing how incompetent the Ancients were. Why did they even bother trying to make the Arcturus device work? Why not just mass-produce Arcturus devices and have them overload next to hives? They could literally vaporize 100 or even 1,000 hives at once by just having it explode next to fleets of hive ships. Why bother with something like the Attero device? Why not just create another Dakara device, program it to target Wraith, and then use the Stargate system to spread the energy wave thrroughout the galaxy? Presto, Wraith dead. Or why not just build transport ships with intergalactic hyperdrives, take all the humans in the Pegasus Galaxy millions of light-years away, and let the Wraith starve to death? Presto, problem solved. They were incredibly stupid with all the abilities they had.

    Furlings -- WTF?! I want to know if the Furlings are as cute and furry as the name suggests. I want to know, dammit. And no, they are not the smoke aliens, or the ones that build the ship from Grace
    Last edited by NoobTau'ri; 30 June 2019, 01:46 PM.

    Comment


      #3
      Wow. You had a lot to say. Welcome back.

      I can agree with some part, but I also disagree with a few things. Some plot holes can be still filled and explained with fan fiction.

      What went wrong?
      - writing off actors to make place for other actors (Weir replaced by Carter)
      - writing off characters for dramatic suspension (dr. Jackson, dr. Fraiser, dr. Beckett, dr. Weir) then bringing them back in the hope of raising the rating
      - writing off the main character without a proper explanation or good-bye story (RDA had only cameos in 9x01 and 9x03)
      - writing off races for dramatic suspension (Asgard, Repliactors) then bringing them back in the hope of raising the rating... again and again...
      - introducing villains with such powers where we shouldn't have any chance in reality
      - magic random solution for the defeating the main enemies (Anubis vs. Oma, Adria vs. Morgan)
      - cancelling Atlantis season 6, just for a sure, but risky 2 seasons order of Stargate : Universe
      - not renaming the SG-1 to Stargate : Command for season 9 and 10 - we could have had easily a third season of "Stargate : Command"
      - SyFy airing decisions (moved from Friday) and creative direction / dictation
      - not running Atlantis season 6 together with Universe season 1, so viewers could have accepted the style change easier
      - more direct crossover between SG-1/Atlantis/Universe
      - the financial crisis of 2008, so the DVD market was also collapsed
      - the franchise couldn't make a successful computer game on PC / consoles as all projects were cancelled before release : Stargate SG-1 : The Alliance, the Stargate : Worlds. SG:W was even meant to be the third leg of the franchise which could have gained new viewers to the live action shows. Only the Stargate Unleashed episode 1-2 had a little success
      - then the merchandise products were stopped or they had mixed quality (action figures, novels, audio books)
      - then the latest is the Stargate : Command application (limited access for 6 countries, tailored conversations)

      But in spite of everything, Stargate is still one of the most entertaining show. Not too serial, not too episodic, not too funny, not too dramatic. Everybody could find his/her favorite style.

      There is still hope and the franchise could be continued without ignoring 17 seasons, but the future showrunners should learn from the mistakes of ancestors.
      Last edited by Platschu; 30 June 2019, 02:01 PM.
      "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

      "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

      "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."

      Comment


        #4
        Didn't bother to read all of it.... but caught the "hardcore SGA fans" part by accident... Dude, get out into the fandom and see that they are usually the ones who wanted Weir exactly where she was, in the lead of that expedition.

        {Snipped}
        Last edited by Bagpuss; 30 June 2019, 04:32 PM.
        Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

        Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
          Didn't bother to read all of it.... but caught the "hardcore SGA fans" part by accident... Dude, get out into the fandom and see that they are usually the ones who wanted Weir exactly where she was, in the lead of that expedition.

          {Snipped}
          SGA was my favourite Stargate, and FH is correct, we loved Weir. She got shafted. She was not a "female Hammond", she was a diplomat, with a whole separate skill set, design, background and motivations than Hammond.
          If anything, Carter in S4 was the female Hammond, and a step backwards to be honest.
          Last edited by Bagpuss; 30 June 2019, 04:32 PM. Reason: Snipped the requote.
          sigpic
          ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
          A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
          The truth isn't the truth

          Comment


            #6
            This is his opinion, so don't argue about it, please. I also don't agree with so many things, but I am too tired to response one by one.

            Weir was loved by everyone and she was so much different than Hammond. And it was disrespectful how they have written her put and how she was brought back. I hated especially when they advertised Atlantis season 4 with the 4 Weir and 2 Beckett episodes, then both of them had one tiny cameos at the end of an episodes just for dramatic cliffhangers with1-1 semtences (!!!). These were misleading marketing strategies. They have also wasted RDA contracts with short scenes instead of properly writing him out why he has left the SGC, why he has moved to Washington, is Jack together with Sam or not.
            "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

            "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

            "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."

            Comment


              #7
              I glanced through your wall of text, and while a handful of items have merit, I found a great many of your complaints silly/misplaced/absurd/all-of-the-above.

              Honestly, I'm not even sure why you're on a Stargate forum if you hate everything about it. Go find something you like, watch that, and talk about how much you love it. Why are you wasting your time moaning about something you so obviously dislike, when you could be enjoying something you love?
              "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

              Comment


                #8
                Just made a couple of edits and deletions.I make no apologies for that.Personal attacks and insults are not welcomed here and personal opinions of *insert X* do not equate to being facts.

                (If in doubt: sift through the FAQ/CVS HERE)

                This thread has a good chance of staying open if the replies are civil,but no chance if bickering and bashing of other fans/characters/castings continues.


                Play on!
                The place to "Gate" to during Outages for updates and info:

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
                  I glanced through your wall of text, and while a handful of items have merit, I found a great many of your complaints silly/misplaced/absurd/all-of-the-above.

                  Honestly, I'm not even sure why you're on a Stargate forum if you hate everything about it. Go find something you like, watch that, and talk about how much you love it. Why are you wasting your time moaning about something you so obviously dislike, when you could be enjoying something you love?
                  Quite a bunch of mistaken assumptions about myself. If you read my thread carefully, which is obviously not the case, I made it clear that I am a huge fan of the original movie and early SG-1. This is why I became a fan in the first place. I made a thread about what *went wrong* with the series. I never stated that I never liked anything abous Stargate.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Platschu View Post

                    Weir was loved by everyone....
                    Not really. I remember back in 2007-09 when I posted regulary here that lots of people hated her and wanted her gone. Wolsey wasn't great himself,. but he was considered by most to be a huge improvement over Weir. I agree.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by NoobTau'ri View Post
                      Quite a bunch of mistaken assumptions about myself. If you read my thread carefully, which is obviously not the case, I made it clear that I am a huge fan of the original movie and early SG-1. This is why I became a fan in the first place. I made a thread about what *went wrong* with the series. I never stated that I never liked anything abous Stargate.
                      In all honesty, what was written in the OP is not "what went wrong", but what you think went wrong. It's all opinionated, not fact. And saying that it "went wrong" is, without proper clarification, the same as saying "I don't like it".

                      There was, and still is, indeed a lot of potential. And there are plenty of flaws; nothing in the world is perfect. But everything that you said is just your opinion.

                      I'm personally indifferent about Weir. I loved her as a character, but I also loved Carter, and even liked how Woolsey became a regular and how he evolved from his early appearances in SG-1 (as with McKay).

                      Also, while the show is called Stargate doesn't mean it's about the Stargate itself. From an in-universe point of view, it's only reasonable that we want spaceships to defend our planet. The Goa'uld had ships, the Ori had ships, the Wraith had ships. Only using the Stargate would not only limit the plot, it would cause or worsen the very things you think "went wrong". It's a natural progression/evolution of the setting. Sure, I would like to keep many things the same, like the SGC and keeping the Stargate a secret. But in some cases it's just not "realistic" to keep things the same forever.

                      As for everything else, in the end, it was their show. They came up with the stories and apparently they were good enough to make Stargate a reasonably popular show of a decent quality. I don't agree with some of them, but that really doesn't mean it's "wrong". You probably should reword that part.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by NoobTau'ri View Post
                        Same thing in the MW Galaxy, where an Ancient scientist created Reese, which would create the first Replicator, which would vanquish the Asgard civilization and almost overun the MW Galaxy(and eventually the whole Universe).
                        This is a fan theory and not at all canon. If the TV continuity continues it's possible that a future writer could link the two, but when the Asurans were first introduced Mallozzi was citing parallel development as the explanation for why we were seeing replicators again in Atlantis. Meaning, we shouldn't consider it surprising that multiple examples of collective nanite AIs came into existence anymore than we should be surprised that multiple civilizations will independently develop Androids or spaceships or cars and so on.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Don't worry too much about him. It is his opinion and we have got our own. I still love this scifi. Sometimes I wish I could be "just" an average viewer in front of the tv, but since we are hardcore fans and I used to translate a lots of spoilers from GW, I have seen and read too much background informations about marketings and gossips and ratings etc. I don't know what is better.

                          Interesting fact that whenever I watch an episode, I can completly forget the outside world. Like I am really there, I am part of the adventure. Even if I have read the informations, I can purely enjoy it. It is weird how our brain you can close out such details.
                          "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

                          "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

                          "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."

                          Comment


                            #14
                            What went wrong?

                            MGM bankrupted creating uncertainty, SyFy still doesn't know what it wants to be, and the extremely profitable DVD market tanked.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              And what is currently going wrong? MGM... that's it. Just... MGM. In fact, based on their indecision right now, I think MGM has always been a problem. At the very least, their marketing skills are grossly inadequate, as we've seen over the years with the lack of promotions.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X