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  1. #1
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    Default How many wraith hiveships would it take to defeat a Aurora class

    The Aurora class is fully operational with full supply of drones Puddle jumpers etc and is commanded by Councillor Melia, I don’t know if all Aurora classes have ZPMs so you can decide if the ship has one or not. Melia just wants to destroy a massive wraith fleet headed for Atlantis.

    How big of a wraith fleet would be needed to defeat her and either destroy the Aurora class or capture Melia and her ship.
    Do every wraith hiveship have a queen? If so then how would they decide who is the overall commander.

    Thanks

    I’ll try to send a picture of Melia so you know who she is. She’s the Lantean from the hologram in the pilot episode and she was in the episode where they find dr Weir in stasis who tells them what happened the first time they arrived in Atlantis.

    https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Melia_(Lantean)

  2. #2
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: How many wraith hiveships would it take to defeat a Aurora class

    Quote Originally Posted by cpmcpm13 View Post
    Puddle jumpers
    I'm not certain the Ancients would deploy jumpers as fighters. Prior to the Wraith, the Ancients used their technology to quickly dispatch enemies while presumably remaining safely behind their powerful shields. Part of their difficulty combating with the Wraith was that they never fully adapted to fighting a real war. They continued to try to rely on their technological superiority to an arrogant degree while working on various "kill all" scientific solutions, so I can't see them sending scores upon scores of their own to pilot vulnerable jumpers. They'd essentially be asking highly intelligent people to serve as fodder.

    Jumpers are also fairly worthless in this situation. A battle cruiser is going to deploy its drones to attack as many Wraith ships as it can at once. The enemy ships that are targeted are going to go down quick. The Ancient ship is then either going to run out of drones and have to flee, successfully destroy all enemy capital ships, or lose shields. Any jumpers that are in play are just going to make it take longer for the cruiser to flee if it needs to and be targets for all the leftover darts. They're not going to do any good against Hives or Cruisers in any situation save if the Ancient battle cruiser is partially disabled and can't return fire or flee.

    I don’t know if all Aurora classes have ZPMs
    They don't. The Ancients appeared to have a ZPM supply problem during the tail end of the war. They gave ZPMs to select ships that they send on an offensive mission deep into Wraith space, but it backfired.

    Do every wraith hiveship have a queen?
    No. Many don't and the Queen to male commander ratio probably would've been more extreme during the climax of the war with the Ancients because they significantly expanded their fleet size once they started pumping out clones.

    If so then how would they decide who is the overall commander.
    Same as some humans. The strongest carves out a position of power and the others fall in line, break off into an opposing faction, or work within the hierarchy until a moment presents itself to enact good old fashion subterfuge and, in doing so, claim power for themselves or an ally...

    TODD: There is only one you need to convince. Among all the Queens in the alliance, one sits above the rest. We call her the Primary.

    McKAY: The uber-Queen?

    ...

    TODD: Forgive me, but this is the way it must be. You must say that you killed her.

    TEYLA: Are you insane?!

    TODD: This is how it's done with our kind. This is how power changes hands.


    As to your primary question: an Ancient battle cruiser in that situation could likely handle around the same number of Wraith ships that were in Anubis' fleet when he attacked Earth. An Ancient manning the control chair would've had the mental control to do as Jack did and launch a whole slew of drones at once and have them branch into scores of different swarms to simultaneously tackle multiple ships.

    What the max number of Wraith ships they could handle at once is anyone's guess as it depends on how many drones a battle cruiser can carry and how strong a fully powered cruiser's shields are. We have no point of reference to speculate on either of those points as the ships Earth encountered were battle damaged.
    Last edited by Xaeden; June 29th, 2019 at 09:09 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: How many wraith hiveships would it take to defeat a Aurora class

    Thanks for answering,
    Yeah I don’t think they’d use Puddlejumpers like that either. Though didn’t SG1 use one to destroy a Gould ship. I guess the amount of Wraith darts would overwhelm the Puddlejumpers anyway.

    When the wraith got the cloning base up and running to drastically expand their army size did they grow or clone new hiveships and cruisers in a similar way to the warriors? I know we never see a hiveship being built so it’s hard to answer but we do see (Michaels I think) hiveship grow enormously in the last episodes of Atlantis.

    We do see Asuran Aurora classes fight in a Battle in a episode, I can’t remember them using drones but the ships are otherwise the same. Could we use this scene to judge a true Lantean Aurora class’s strength?

    Is there any reason why a Lantean Ship can’t just withdraw when things get problematic.
    If Melia was commanding a ZPM powered Aurora battle cruiser sent deep into wraith space on a mission then a wraith Queen ambushes her with overwhelming numbers. Why couldn’t Melia fire her stores of drones and destroy a portion of the wraith fleet then have her ship withdraw to resupply?

    How could the wraith prevent her escape? I remember they used a virus in season 2 against the earth ship but I don’t think it would work against a Ancient ship.
    If they can prevent her escaping then they can take their time reducing Melia’s shields and once her drones are depleted then use the darts to beam wraith onboard to capture Melia and the ZPM.

  4. #4
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: How many wraith hiveships would it take to defeat a Aurora class

    Quote Originally Posted by cpmcpm13 View Post
    Thanks for answering,
    Yeah I don’t think they’d use Puddlejumpers like that either. Though didn’t SG1 use one to destroy a Gould ship. I guess the amount of Wraith darts would overwhelm the Puddlejumpers anyway.
    Yeah, but it was pure luck. They fired two drones, realized they had depleted their supply, and then Carter said they should hope they hit somewhere that caused secondary explosions. That ended up being exactly what happened. Normally it would've taken many more drones to take out a Ha'tak.

    Sheppard also unleashed a puddle jumper's drones on a Hive. It did a good amount of damage, but it didn't destroy it.

    When the wraith got the cloning base up and running to drastically expand their army size did they grow or clone new hiveships and cruisers in a similar way to the warriors? I know we never see a hiveship being built so it’s hard to answer but we do see (Michaels I think) hiveship grow enormously in the last episodes of Atlantis.
    That's the implication as an army of clones would only allow the Wraith to overwhelm the Ancients if they were manning additional ships.

    Also, yes, the Wraith can grow ships anywhere as long as there is a sufficient energy source. ZPMs can speed up the process, so if they had more than just the three needed to power the cloning facility, it's possible they used them to grow ships faster around the same time.

    We do see Asuran Aurora classes fight in a Battle in a episode, I can’t remember them using drones but the ships are otherwise the same. Could we use this scene to judge a true Lantean Aurora class’s strength?
    Joseph Mallozzi once said on his blog that Asuran ships are not at the same level as Ancient ships in relation to their shield strength. I don't understand why that's the case given how well they can replicate ZPMs and city-ships, but it does seem that the writers were underplaying their capabilities in order to make them less terrifying as ~30 Ancient ships would've overwhelmed the less than 100 Wraith hives that populate the galaxy today.

    The drone thing is major. Asuran ships seem to use energy weapons a lot, and we've never seen them fire a full swarm. They fired some from Atlantis but it was like Beckett firing against the super hive in the finale in that only a few were launched at a time.

    Is there any reason why a Lantean Ship can’t just withdraw when things get problematic.
    If Melia was commanding a ZPM powered Aurora battle cruiser sent deep into wraith space on a mission then a wraith Queen ambushes her with overwhelming numbers. Why couldn’t Melia fire her stores of drones and destroy a portion of the wraith fleet then have her ship withdraw to resupply?
    Generally, yes, and that's where the beauty of the gate network comes into play as the ship can simply jump to the nearest Stargate and get resupplied with drones rather quickly. There are times, though, when that can be difficult:

    1) Atlantis is the only ship that can enter hyperspace with its shields on. Any other ship it is vulnerable when exiting/entering hyperspace, so there's a small window where the Ancient battle cruiser could take direct hits. In the second season premiere, the Daedalus goes off to meet the incoming fleet of 12 Wraith ships and manages to destroy a couple by beaming nukes on board them before the Wrath get their jamming tech in place. To flee the Daedalus has to fly out of weapons fire range before entering hyperspace (https://youtu.be/UAfRwDhEcv8). That may be challenging to accomplish if the number of remaining Wraith ships still in play is very large.

    2) Except in the case of Atlantis and Ori ships, hits to a shield can damage a ship's systems, so hyperdrive engines, weapons, etc. can be knocked out of commission before the ship's shields have been depleted.

    3) The most common way the Ancients would've lost a ship is probably by overstaying in battle because they had something to protect. That's one of the problems with sending jumpers out as they'd then have to choose to wait for them to return or leave them behind. Trying to protect a crippled ally ship is another reason to overstay, as is trying to protect a planet/resource. None of these likely apply in your particular scenario, though.

    How could the wraith prevent her escape? I remember they used a virus in season 2 against the earth ship but I don’t think it would work against a Ancient ship.
    The Wraith likely developed the viruses to use against Ancients in the first place. We also know they used a virus to infect the Asuran base code, which then shut off the command to target the Wraith, so they can penetrate Ancient built technology.

    If they can prevent her escaping then they can take their time reducing Melia’s shields and once her drones are depleted then use the darts to beam wraith onboard to capture Melia and the ZPM.
    Their best bet would be #1 from above. If they bring enough ships and spread them out enough to ensure the Ancient ship is always taking fire it can't jump into hyperspace without Wraith weapons fire hitting its hull.
    Last edited by Xaeden; June 27th, 2019 at 11:50 AM.

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