Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    Probie Ohmy Desalad's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 2019
    Posts
    3

    Default Somethings I don't get about Goa'uld breeding (thread not as gross as it sounds).

    Okay so we know that 'Goa'uld queens' function much like an ant or bee queen in the sense that they're the ones largely responsible for the species reproducing since they spawn all the offspring and in large quantities. After obtaining the 'code of life' from Daniel Hathor immediately began spawning. Does this mean that a queen is capable of having offspring without the need of another Goa'uld seeding her, or were her eggs already fertilized?

    Also what does this mean for the Goa'uld culturally? Apophis seemed to have some affection for Klorel, which makes sense to us humans who get attached to our children, but presumably Apophis probably had a bazillion babies when he seeded Amaunet. Why would he give such deference to Klorel as opposed to some other random larva still inside a Jaffa? My guess is that for reasons pertaining to pragmatism a Goa'uld might chose to knowledge the first to have reached maturity, or the first few as their child. In some ancient cultures usually the first born son inherited his fathers property. It simply wasn't feasible if you had five kids to split a tiny farm into 5 pieces. However humans are tribal we tend to ideally love and care for every member of our family, and cooperation has been one of our species greatest survival strategies. The Goa'uld on the other hand seem to be competitive by necessity back on P3X888 the opportunity to find and take a host was rare. This is probably also why they're so sociopathic and back stabby towards each other, and don't hesitate to kill a Jaffa by killing his or her symbiot.

    I also noticed that queens seem to be rare and so I'm guessing it's ordinarily the likes of a System Lord that get the privilege of having a queen, thus insuring that only the most vicious Goa'uld get to reproduce. So yeah I'm wondering if you guys have any head canons about this somewhat strange topic, or if I'm the only odd ball that has thought about these things? I'm also new to the Stargate fandom. (I'm on season 6 of SG1 but my husband and I want to slowly work our way through the whole franchise.)

  2. #2
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Traveling through Time and Space
    Posts
    7,046

    Default Re: Somethings I don't get about Goa'uld breeding (thread not as gross as it sounds).

    Definitely not the first time it’s been brought up.

    An added wrinkle that is never addressed is how there are so few apparent Goa’uld versus millions of Jaffa who are in turn incubating their own Goa’uld. So you’d think there would be far more out there vying for power than there are.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  3. #3
    Probie Ohmy Desalad's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 2019
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Somethings I don't get about Goa'uld breeding (thread not as gross as it sounds).

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    Definitely not the first time it’s been brought up.

    An added wrinkle that is never addressed is how there are so few apparent Goa’uld versus millions of Jaffa who are in turn incubating their own Goa’uld. So you’d think there would be far more out there vying for power than there are.
    Yeah that's true, I'm assuming there's probably a lot more minor Goa'ulds then we see on screen. I mean if the System Lords and even under System Lords could 'own' many different worlds you'd think they have regents or something looking after the somewhat important ones. The Goa'uld also tend to want to keep humans and Jaffa of lower and mid rank ignorant of how technology functions. We see lots of slaves mining for naquada, but not where it's refined nor where they manufacture the liquid generators. All these sorts of technical jobs you'd think they'd want to entrust to lesser Goa'uld so that they keep their secrets among those that share their genetic memory. On the other hand it's always a catch 22, since Goa'uld aren't that trust worthy. Of course then there's that grotesque little scene in Summit...That might also account for the Goa'uld comparatively smaller population vs Jaffas with symbiotes.

  4. #4
    Second Lieutenant Who Knows's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    298

    Default Re: Somethings I don't get about Goa'uld breeding (thread not as gross as it sounds).

    I have never thought about Goa'uld procreating before.

    I have memories of the Tokra & Pangea, a sort of overgrown slug in an oversized fish tank procreating.

    Then there was the episode where Danial meets (and is captured by) a Unas, where the symbiotes are swimming around in the river & jumping out at unsuspecting passers-by trying to take them over.

    Maybe the Goa'uld use the Jaffa to incubate the symbiotes for their own use if their symbiote gets damaged beyond repair, or dies. (Maybe the sarcophagus damages symbiotes over time & long use).
    But if you give these symbiotes from the Jaffa away willy-nilly, making more Goa'uld to share power with. So maybe that is why there are so few Goa'uld & so many Jaffa.

  5. #5
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2018
    Location
    P3X-888
    Posts
    769

    Default Re: Somethings I don't get about Goa'uld breeding (thread not as gross as it sounds).

    I mean it's pretty clear in the show that Harcesis child are not tolerated in the Goa'uld world so there's no procreation in between Goa'ulds. If you think about it, they don't really need to procreate, they were born thousands of years ago and just kept switching hosts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Who Knows View Post
    But if you give these symbiotes from the Jaffa away willy-nilly, making more Goa'uld to share power with. So maybe that is why there are so few Goa'uld & so many Jaffa.
    Yep exactly, why share the power? Keep your underlings as low as possible.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  6. #6
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,160

    Default Re: Somethings I don't get about Goa'uld breeding (thread not as gross as it sounds).

    Yeah, that they don't want to share power is the exact reason the majority of symbiotes never take hosts. As each Goa'uld is born with the genetic memories of their parent(s), they're all extremely dangerous potential rivals. System lords need a certain number of lesser Goa'uld to help manage their spheres of influence, so they keep some around, but there's always the possibility that they will betray their system lord or run off and try to create their own rival power base. Allowing millions of highly intelligent, power hungry mental clones of themselves run around would lead to their collapse.

    That the System Lords take measures to prevent their population from growing was
    briefly touched upon in season 5's Summit and Last Stand:

    DANIEL
    What about the Jaffa?

    JACOB
    Well that's still a bit of a wrinkle. Unless we can find a way to reverse their biological dependency on immature symbiotes, they'll all die as well.

    DANIEL
    A bit of a wrinkle.

    JACOB
    Danny, the Goa'uld have been spreading like a plague across the galaxy for thousands of years. Now for the first time they're showing zero population growth. We're not sure why. But we intend to take advantage of the situation. We may never get a chance like this again. Are we good to go?

    ...

    [The lights go out and something is ringed in. It is the vat of Goa'uld. The System Lords get up and gather round the vat. Ba'al, Osiris then Kali reach in and take one out. The slaves present look confused. The rest of the Goa'uld reach in and we see them bite into the symbiotes and eat them. Daniel looks disgusted.]

    ...

    DANIEL
    I know this may seem unimportant right now, but I may as well tell you anyway. I think I figured out why the Goa'uld population hasn't been growing much lately.
    Presumably those that they don't eat, they kill in some other fashion. And they've probably been doing this for a long time. Jacob was curious as to why their population growth had gone down to zero in recent years, but in the past it could have been in the tens or single digits even.

    Regarding reproduction: Some organisms can reproduce both sexually and asexually. This applies to the Goa'uld. In season 6's "Cure" we learned about their asexual reproduction:

    MALEK
    Symbiote queens are able to fertilize their own eggs. It is essentially an asexual process.
    In other instances, there have been Goa'uld who were the offspring of two other Goa'uld. A key advantage to sexual reproduction for the Goa'uld is likely that it allows them to pass on memories from both parents. It could be a problem nowadays since a System Lord who reproduces this way would be creating a rival that is more knowledgeable than they are, but it would have been evolutionary beneficial and likely allowed the Goa'uld to fast-track their development.
    Last edited by Xaeden; May 3rd, 2019 at 08:19 PM.

  7. #7
    Staff Sergeant Bad Wolf the Artist's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Hopefully somewhere near a bathroom and coffee!
    Posts
    58

    Default Re: Somethings I don't get about Goa'uld breeding (thread not as gross as it sounds).

    I am curious too. Also why do the Tok’Ra not join forces with the free Jaffa to increase their numbers.
    Hello
    I like Daniel. Why is there not a simple heart emoji? I got a crush on Daniel. I think I always did.

  8. #8
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,160

    Default Re: Somethings I don't get about Goa'uld breeding (thread not as gross as it sounds).

    Quote Originally Posted by VrotoTurtle View Post
    I am curious too. Also why do the Tok’Ra not join forces with the free Jaffa to increase their numbers.
    How do you think that would allow them to increase their numbers?

  9. #9
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2005
    Location
    King's Lynn, UK
    Posts
    4,518

    Default Re: Somethings I don't get about Goa'uld breeding (thread not as gross as it sounds).

    As much as I love and support the Goa'uld, the whole Jaffa storyline is disgusting. Every time Teal'c showed Junior, I had to close my eyes. Brrr... As far as I know even Brad Wright has regretted this idea with the pouch and the X scar on the extras. Brrr again.

    We had a quite good conversation here :
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

  10. #10
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2005
    Location
    King's Lynn, UK
    Posts
    4,518

    Default Re: Somethings I don't get about Goa'uld breeding (thread not as gross as it sounds).

    Great. My PC has crashed again, so I will finish my post on my tablet. I can't find to link the thread, but a few months ago we have talked deeply about the genetics in Stargate in one of the Atlantis threads . Ancient technologies, Wraith skills, Goa'uld memory is all gene-related, but sometimes I feel the writers haven't got the right background knowledge how to write stories about it. I mean I know it is "only"a scifi show, but since they have used real biochemistry facts as a base for their ideas, we can't pretend to look away if it is not believable. Maybe an average viewer will do it, but not those who has got slightly deeper education about it.

    I won't repeat myself, but basically my opinion was in the conversation that genetic doesn't work randomly. Something is inherited or not. You have got the genes or not. There are lots of gene senquences in our DNA which are not expressed (means no protein will be coded, so no biological function). These are the so called "quiet" DNA which is like an evolutionary heritage. It is still interesting that while nature always try to use as less energy as possible for everything, the whole DNA is copied for every living thing even if a huge % of the DNA is never ever used.

    And that is how scifi starts, where they could introduce genetic memories. But can an event be described by 4 bases (CATG)? It is a scifi show so we have to believe it. Here are two extra infos :
    1. If I remember well from my studies 15-20 years ago, then 3 bases codes one amino acid. There could be approximately approximately. 120 combination (4X4X4), but only 20 amino acids are used in our body). Some of them are called essential amino acids what our own body can not make, so we have to eat proteins.

    2. Chemistry is also interesting as two version of molecules exist in nature. One of them rotates the lightwave to the left, while the other to the right. Imagine two carbon atoms ( C-C ), but the whole chemical structure can be rotated to both ways. But it is interesting that only one of them is active in nature. So why would every organic lifeform waste time an energy to copy something, to create something, when only 50% can be used at the end?)

    And that is how I have talked a lot about the Ancient herited genes. It is nonsense that such genetic markers show up in random humans. They must be inherited from one or both of the parents. If it is inherited it means it can accumated in isolated human groups, so if they are the descendant of the Ancients then all citizen must be able to use Ancient technologies. Or maybe they have brought humans there from the Milky Way, we will never know.

  11. #11
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2005
    Location
    King's Lynn, UK
    Posts
    4,518

    Default Re: Somethings I don't get about Goa'uld breeding (thread not as gross as it sounds).

    What was not clearly communicated in Stargate that the Goa'uld hosts adapt to the genetic of the host, while they must change the genetic of the host too. We know two adult Goa'uld can make Harsiesis, but how? Has the host's testicles or ovaries reprogrammed by the Goa'uld? We know the Harsiesis inherits all the knowledge of the Goa'uld parents. It is not logical at all that nobody tries to father such hosts before Apophis if there are hundreds of themand at least 10-20 major Queens spawns countless larvas. And what happens with the "normal" offsprings from the harem? Will these human children carry some Goa'uld knowledge and memories in their DNA? So this part could be explained by the "silent" DNA genes.

Similar Threads

  1. Does it feels like somethings missing?
    By jakebolt in forum SGU General Discussion
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: October 11th, 2009, 01:38 PM
  2. Replies: 28
    Last Post: June 2nd, 2009, 02:56 PM
  3. Somethings wrong with the Atlantis pages
    By stargatelvr in forum GateWorld Features
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: December 3rd, 2008, 12:06 PM
  4. Breeding with a cave man? I dont buy it...
    By Jack_Bauer in forum General Stargate Discussion
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: September 24th, 2008, 03:42 AM
  5. Moore & Caprica = Somethings Not Right ...
    By ArthurKing in forum Battlestar Galactica
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: May 6th, 2006, 07:11 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •