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    #76
    Originally posted by Annoyed View Post
    But it's still not proof.
    Semantics aside, can you prove that whatever change might be happening today is the result of mankinds's activity, rather than another in a series of warming/cooling periods that have gone on since before mankind existed?

    Even under your own definition of "theory" it is still just a theory; the most current thinking we have on the topic. But that ain't proof.
    Under the definition I cited for you, a theory is a compilation of data, facts, laws, etc. Again, there are aspects within the theory that are still evolving or might indeed be tenuous, but there are also aspects which are verifiable and repeatable. I listed a number of aspects of the theory that we know for certain already like how CO2 creates a greenhouse effect, how we know it's increasing as a result of human activity, how we know our actions are causing more of it to go into the atmosphere instead of being absorbed by plants, how known causes of natural climate change have been ruled out, and so on.

    You're asking me to provide proof in a very broad sense. Can you narrow it down by telling me if there is any particular aspect of what I have discussed that you would like me to provide sources for? For example, you want to know why Earth isn't experiencing a natural warming period. If you expect me to put together a list of all known possible causes and provide detailed fact based write-ups to each and source verifiable data that demonstrates why they're not causing it, that is asking too much. If, however, there a specific natural cause that you think it responsible, please let me know, and I'll be happy to point you to evidence that rules that out.

    Also, you've made a number of claims that you have not offered any evidence for. You seem to imply that all climate experts are being paid to lie. Can you back that up with any facts, please?

    If you want to dismantle our economy, as with any other accusation, you need to have proof.
    I'm actually apolitical and therefore do not advocate for or promote any particular policy change based on topics that I discuss.
    Last edited by Xaeden; 29 April 2019, 11:24 AM.

    Comment


      #77
      Originally posted by P-90_177 View Post
      If Annoyed were a Cop you could find a murderer with the knife in his hand, bloodied, standing over the dead body, fingerprints on the handle and he'd still let the guy go.

      Ok... Let's go ahead and just hypothetically suggest for a moment that 99% of the World's scientists are wrong / liars who are getting paid off (By who exactly as an aside?).
      Just like every unwashed protester in every city in the world, it must be Soros. I wish I knew where they were handing out the checks.

      (Pay no attention to the fact that Exxon and Shell have known for forty frickin' years and tried to hide it.)
      "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

      Comment


        #78
        Originally posted by P-90_177 View Post
        If Annoyed were a Cop you could find a murderer with the knife in his hand, bloodied, standing over the dead body, fingerprints on the handle and he'd still let the guy go.
        It's much worse than that. If I were a serial killer who murdered someone in every county of the United States and all the local police stations investigated each individual case in their jurisdictions and a good number collaborated with and cross referenced/fact checked each other's data, he'd say it was a conspiracy that I was pinned as the murderer in the vast majority of cases.

        In an individual case, I could be framed by the local police, but when my murderous proclivities impact a larger world and those actions are all invested by different people who also independently analyze the data that others have collected, claiming it's all one big conspiracy is a great insanity defense, but it's way outside the bounds of reality.

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          #79
          Guys, you are doing it all wrong.
          *throws Annoyed out of a 10 storey window*

          Gravity is only a theory.
          sigpic
          ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
          A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
          The truth isn't the truth

          Comment


            #80
            Originally posted by Xaeden View Post
            Thanks Gatefan and P-90.



            I quoted for you two reliable sources that define a scientific theory as I described. The Oxford English Dictionary, in particular, is the gold standard of dictionaries. It is the most trusted source among for academics who need to write papers, reporters working on articles, or any other kind of serious professional who needs to define or trace the history of words.

            If you like, though, I can provide you with similar quotes from other dictionaries and other reliable sources that say the same thing. Can you offer any source that defines a "scientific theory" in the way that you describe?

            As you correctly note, it is the responsibility of the person making a claim to prove it. I have claimed that "theory," in a scientific context means one thing and then I offered you sources to back up my claim. You have claimed that it means something else and have both ignored my sources and refused to provide any of your own.



            When I wrote "There have been some periods of rapid climate change in one direction or another during human history, but they are attributable to specific causes," volcanoes were one of the causes that I had in mind, but I'm unclear as to what it has to with the current conversation. It is true that volcanic eruptions commonly have an impact Earth's climate, but they're not responsible for the warming that we're currently experiencing.
            Just sayin'....that as much as you believe that mankind is the sole cause of this climate change....it could be argued that one burp from a volcano ejects more toxins into the atmosphere than all of mankind's industrial output combined....and now a humorous image of someone going around trying to cork all the volcanoes in a futile attempt to stop them from erupting

            and in the specific example of the Mt. Tambora eruption...it caused 3 straight years of global cooling....leading to the abnormal weather phenomenon known as the "Year without a Summer" in about 1815...during this year without a summer it snowed in early June in Albany....a rather unusual event...as extreme as our winter weather can be sometimes....the most extreme of it is still for the most part confined to the traditional winter months

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              #81
              Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
              Just like every unwashed protester in every city in the world, it must be Soros. I wish I knew where they were handing out the checks.

              (Pay no attention to the fact that Exxon and Shell have known for forty frickin' years and tried to hide it.)
              Haven't you noticed how ''Soros'' sounds like ''Tacos''? In ancient salsa language Oros means Tacos and the S stands for Sentient.

              Sentient Tacos is Soros: confirmed.
              Spoiler:
              I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

              Comment


                #82
                *drops a bowling ball and a feral cat behind GF*

                So is terminal velocity
                Originally posted by aretood2
                Jelgate is right

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by P-90_177 View Post
                  If Annoyed were a Cop you could find a murderer with the knife in his hand, bloodied, standing over the dead body, fingerprints on the handle and he'd still let the guy go.

                  Ok... Let's go ahead and just hypothetically suggest for a moment that 99% of the World's scientists are wrong / liars who are getting paid off (By who exactly as an aside?). That doesn't change what is happening still. The world's getting hotter. The ice caps are melting. Extreme weather is getting more common. One way or another the world cannot go on like it isn't happening. These are all FACTS. CO2 levels in the atmosphere are increasing. FACT. CO2 is toxic to most animal life. FACT. Water levels are rising. FACT. Hell, fossil fuels are a finite resource. FACT.

                  One way or another, the economy cannot remain based in the manner in which it is at the moment. Regardless of any of this we still require renewable energy sources, more fuel efficient vehicles which ideally do not run off of fossil energy and a generally more sustainable way of living. And either way we need to do it soon.
                  As I said, follow the money.

                  1st:
                  https://www.investors.com/politics/e...warming-scare/

                  Fraud: While the global warming alarmists have done a good job of spreading fright, they haven't been so good at hiding their real motivation. Yet another one has slipped up and revealed the catalyst driving the climate scare.

                  We have been told now for almost three decades that man has to change his ways or his fossil-fuel emissions will scorch Earth with catastrophic warming. Scientists, politicians and activists have maintained the narrative that their concern is only about caring for our planet and its inhabitants. But this is simply not true. The narrative is a ruse. They are after something entirely different.

                  If they were honest, the climate alarmists would admit that they are not working feverishly to hold down global temperatures -- they would acknowledge that they are instead consumed with the goal of holding down capitalism and establishing a global welfare state.

                  Have doubts? Then listen to the words of former United Nations climate official Ottmar Edenhofer:

                  "One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with the environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole," said Edenhofer, who co-chaired the U.N.'s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change working group on Mitigation of Climate Change from 2008 to 2015.

                  So what is the goal of environmental policy?

                  "We redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy," said Edenhofer.

                  For those who want to believe that maybe Edenhofer just misspoke and doesn't really mean that, consider that a little more than five years ago he also said that "the next world climate summit in Cancun is actually an economy summit during which the distribution of the world's resources will be negotiated."
                  2nd.
                  That vast majority of the scientiests screaming "the sky is falling" are government or educational institution employees or contractors. These folks are paid to study things like this, many on a "by the study" basis.
                  If they report back to their employers that there is no problem, that's the end of their gravy train. But if they raise an alarm, there's a good chance of "more study required". The gravy train rolls on.

                  3rd. There is a lot of money to be transferred around with all of their suggested solutions, what with carbon taxes, energy use taxes and all the rest of it.

                  Clearly, there are a lot of financial incentives to be gained by perpetuating this idea.

                  With no concrete proof, isn't it a good bet that the real motivation are financial and not environmental in nature?

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by annoyed View Post
                    as i said, follow the money.

                    1st:
                    https://www.investors.com/politics/e...warming-scare/



                    2nd.
                    That vast majority of the scientiests screaming "the sky is falling" are government or educational institution employees or contractors. These folks are paid to study things like this, many on a "by the study" basis.
                    If they report back to their employers that there is no problem, that's the end of their gravy train. But if they raise an alarm, there's a good chance of "more study required". The gravy train rolls on.

                    3rd. There is a lot of money to be transferred around with all of their suggested solutions, what with carbon taxes, energy use taxes and all the rest of it.

                    Clearly, there are a lot of financial incentives to be gained by perpetuating this idea.

                    With no concrete proof, isn't it a good bet that the real motivation are financial and not environmental in nature?
                    there is concrete proof
                    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Proof fabricated by the left to take money from the hard working stiffs. Its all a scam to take away the money from the hard working stiff. The truth is out there

                      *cue X-Files music*
                      Originally posted by aretood2
                      Jelgate is right

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Originally posted by P-90_177 View Post
                        there is concrete proof
                        It's annoyed being a pavement pizza after the theory of gravity was proven.
                        sigpic
                        ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
                        A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
                        The truth isn't the truth

                        Comment


                          #87
                          I love it. His "proof" is an editorial -- without attribution, no less -- that's full of misquotes and mischaracterizations, on a website whose flatly partisan editorial section routinely makes Ted Nugent look like Lenin.


                          Follow the money? Well, how about let's follow one particular odyssey--Exxon.

                          Let's start with the fact that scientists Exxon paid to do the research figured out the damage and danger of carbon dioxide buildup in 19-freaking-77, before "climate change" ever entered the public vernacular. And how they yelled about it over and over to Exxon management, but were ignored. And how, instead of doing anything about it, Exxon management instead decided to spent forty years trying to sow doubt about what their own studies had determined--and which was given more and more weight over the decades as more and more research was done. And Shell, too.
                          https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-40-years-ago/
                          https://www.theguardian.com/environm...hange-warnings

                          And that they sat on the research until it came out in 2015, 38 years later.
                          https://www.bbc.com/news/business-34750196
                          https://www.independent.co.uk/enviro...-a7908541.html

                          And how they and Shell have been sued for misleading the public.
                          https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...limate-change/
                          http://time.com/5433486/new-york-sue...limate-change/

                          And how a federal judge threw out Exxon's attempt to block investigations into their misleading of the public.
                          https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-N...r-Up-Case.html

                          ....and how Exxon finally came around to admit to the dangers their products cause
                          https://money.cnn.com/2017/12/12/inv...isk/index.html

                          And how now, Exxon, BP, and Royal Dutch Shell are all lobbying for a carbon tax
                          https://www.cbsnews.com/news/exxon-m...-a-carbon-tax/

                          But that in spite of that, they were still trying to cover up their own research and history of lies to limit their own liability. In January of this year, the SCOTUS declined to hear Exxon's case that was attempting to block investigations into what they knew and when
                          https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8716451.html


                          The largest oil companies in the world knew. And they knew because they did the damned research themselves. And when they didn't like the results, they tried to cover it up. And when they were exposed, they tried to use their money and influence to prevent anybody from finding out.

                          Follow the money? There's your god damned money.
                          "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

                          Comment


                            #88
                            About that GF. I may have driven over him with my car. Multiple times. In my defense, I was eating bacon at the time
                            Originally posted by aretood2
                            Jelgate is right

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Originally posted by jelgate View Post
                              About that GF. I may have driven over him with my car. Multiple times. In my defense, I was eating bacon at the time
                              Well, we know the fall would not have killed him, theories have no impact, unlike a car.
                              sigpic
                              ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
                              A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
                              The truth isn't the truth

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by P-90_177 View Post
                                It is a bizarre state of affairs isn’t it?

                                In some ways I can understand it to a degree. Part of the appeal of these kinds of movements is that they are places for outsiders. People who don’t fit in so easily in society. And yet there are these communities that can provide a clique for them to become a part of and make them feel like they’re “in the know.”

                                I highly recommend a fella on YouTube called SciMan Dan who debunks Flat Earth and a lot of other Pseudo Science videos on there. It can be pretty cringeny but it can be interesting to see the mentality of these people.
                                i have watched many of those debunk 'flat tards' videos

                                i see one common problem with them; the people are presenting "Evidence" --shocking!!!-- that does the debunking

                                the problem though, is that many if not all of these 'flat tards', will not accept the evidence on principle if nothing else

                                the 'principle being that all of the evidence is faked---

                                pics of earth from space?-- faked. airbrushed, cgi, animation ,etc

                                gravity?-- doesn't exist

                                "you are not either high enough (altitude) or observing a long enough distance to see any curvature"-- answer from them is usually silence


                                they need to get as basic and as in your face as the flat tards do. the fe's have predetermined to NOT ACCEPT any arguments based in science!!!


                                Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos or Richard Branson could give a flat tard a ride to high altitude/low orbit so they could observe curvature first hand

                                what would the answer be? flat earther : "they brought me to a facility where they put me on a "spacecraft" and later I observed what appeared to be the earth from low orbit. BUT I know (because I just do) that they drugged me and then woke me up after we arrived at a soundstage where this elaborate display was put on for me. Then they drugged me again"

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