Winterfell (801)

[Skydiver]

I seriously doubt Cersei was ever pregnant. I believe the prophecy of her only having so many children is right and she either faked it or she’s sick (as in cancer) that’s eating her up inside.

I loved the Arya/Jon reunion, and the Arya/Hound one too. Love the respect from him - as much as you get anyway. I have also been a fan of Arya/Gendry since the early seasons. He too is an heir to the throne, albeit one that doesn’t want it. If anything happens to Sansa, she is lady of winterfell. It’d be a fun twist if she and Gendry end up together the survivors and ‘winners’....two people that never played the game, just struggled to survive it.

Theon redeemed himself now has to face the music of what he did. Although that will probably be anticlimactic once Bran vouches for him. After all Theon did save Bran and the other brother.

Bronn will never carry out his mission. He is a merc but he respects and likes Jamie. He’ll take the gold and use it to escape then hope that Cersei dies before she can kill him for reneging.

One advantage of so few episodes, there’s not much filler or time wasters.

Although I am still waiting for hit to hit Jon that, even unwittingly, he and Dany have kept up the fine Targarean tradition of incest.

My guesses are
Arya and Gendry on the throne at King’s Landing
Sansa as Lady of Winterfell
Jon and Dany dead, or one of them dead but there is a baby somehow. Who will be like Dany, smuggled away to be the heir in a few years. Given her thirst for power, Dany may die, while Jon takes the baby and flies off on a dragon....and will he be content to just live or will he too thirst for power and rally things around for round 2 in a generation or so?

I expect a focus on the cyclical ‘ every generation there is a power play, people live, people die, those that survive settle for peace...until their children or grandchildren come of age and forget the lessons of the past to fight again for the next Game of Thrones’.

In other words, it’s a story that never ends, just repeats over and over every few decades.

[SoulReaver]

I expected the reunion between Arya & Gendry to be a lot friendlier especially after she thought Gendry had been sacrificed


in an interview Jerome Flynn did say Bronn would fight for that castle & do whatever it takes so I'm not so sure he won't turn against Tyrion & Jaime
remember that ambiguous answer he gave then Tyrion asked him if he'd "assassinate a baby without question"


Cersei's pregnancy's still compatible with the prophecy there's a miscarriage or it's stillborn

[SoulReaver]

real question is will Jon reveal the truth about his heritage? he's always been a truth sayer

the north would more than welcome this since this would mean a Stark on the throne, the dothraki & the unsullied on the other hand I'm not sure (the fact he's related to their queen could help)

most importantly where's the proof? Dany certainly won't accept the visions of a Stark boy she barely knows. Citadel records? they can show Rhaegar & Lyanna were married & had a legit heir but that still doesn't prove Jon is that heir

Jon doesn't want power - which is what would make him a great king - I can imagine him renouncing the throne but maybe asking for the north kingdom in exchange (out of duty toward the north I mean)



and will Sam hold a grudge against Dany? it's not like Tarly couldn't have avoided execution when all he had to do was bend the knee like he bent the knee to Cersei

[Skydiver]

Well, for Sam, I’d imagine Dad is good riddance. Man was a jerk to Sam. But he will be upset over the brother. There was some genuine fraternal affection there.

And true about Jon’s claim. There is no proof. Dany’s is pretty undeniable, or has been accepted as truth for 20 years.

The downside about her, she has a thread of brutal in her. And while some leaders do need to be brutal, they need to temper it. And she has a long standing history of mass killings (granted they have not been nice people but still, benevolent ruler she may not necessarily be)

[Teddybrown]

Was what Arya asking Gendry to make her, didnt get a good look at it?

[P-90_177]

Well, for Sam, I’d imagine Dad is good riddance. Man was a jerk to Sam. But he will be upset over the brother. There was some genuine fraternal affection there.

And true about Jon’s claim. There is no proof. Dany’s is pretty undeniable, or has been accepted as truth for 20 years.

The downside about her, she has a thread of brutal in her. And while some leaders do need to be brutal, they need to temper it. And she has a long standing history of mass killings (granted they have not been nice people but still, benevolent ruler she may not necessarily be)

I think this season will show her to be as much of a tyrant as the Mad King was. The Mad King was said to be very fair and caring when he was young and slowly went insane. I think if there's one thing we've learnt over the series is that Incest makes for some truly insane rulers. One way or another I don't thing Dany will come to take the throne. I suspect if Jon does then the Seven Kingdoms will be much different. He may choose to rule from afar. Maybe from the Wall or Dragonstone, while the rest of the Kingdom is left to rule its own affairs. Sansa as Lady of Winterfell, Tyrion taking Lordship of Casterly Rock and so on.

Something does occur that there is one form of evidence Jon has that he is Targaryen born. He's the only other who the Dragons allow to ride them.

[P-90_177]

Was what Arya asking Gendry to make her, didnt get a good look at it?

I'm not sure but it looks like a spear handle with an interchangeable head.

[Elwenn]

It's good to be back in Winterfell. It was nice seeing all the reunions, especially of characters who hadn't seen one another for so many years. I'm also glad that they dealt with Snow's identity quite quickly. It'll be great to see him cope with it.
I was kind of hoping for what happens at the end of the episode, and am quite impatient to see what goes on next week.

[Skydiver]

I think this season will show her to be as much of a tyrant as the Mad King was. The Mad King was said to be very fair and caring when he was young and slowly went insane. I think if there's one thing we've learnt over the series is that Incest makes for some truly insane rulers. One way or another I don't thing Dany will come to take the throne. I suspect if Jon does then the Seven Kingdoms will be much different. He may choose to rule from afar. Maybe from the Wall or Dragonstone, while the rest of the Kingdom is left to rule its own affairs. Sansa as Lady of Winterfell, Tyrion taking Lordship of Casterly Rock and so on.

Something does occur that there is one form of evidence Jon has that he is Targaryen born. He's the only other who the Dragons allow to ride them.

I do agree about Dany. She has a vicious tendency and can be quite unforgiving. One might also say cruel, although thus far it has only been to those that deserved it (the slavers) but that is a slippery slope, especially if one in absolute power decides who is or isn’t worthy.

I do think anyone hoping for ‘happily ever after happy family’ is going to be disappointed. Dany and Jon are doomed.

One thing is, as much as those talking about how women are and have been treated...who are the main points of power at the moment? Women that have been abused and survived their abusers.

Cersei thirsting for power after being her father’s pawn (along with a bit of her own psychopath)
Sansa surviving Joffrey and Ramsey
Arya surviving on her own
Dany surviving being sold by her brother and used by Drogo (before he fell in love with her)
Theon’s sister after being treated as second best by her father despite the fact that she was just as good as if not better than the guys

All of them are what the men made them to be. they are what they had to be to survive.

[P-90_177]

I do agree about Dany. She has a vicious tendency and can be quite unforgiving. One might also say cruel, although thus far it has only been to those that deserved it (the slavers) but that is a slippery slope, especially if one in absolute power decides who is or isn’t worthy.

I do think anyone hoping for ‘happily ever after happy family’ is going to be disappointed. Dany and Jon are doomed.

One thing is, as much as those talking about how women are and have been treated...who are the main points of power at the moment? Women that have been abused and survived their abusers.

Cersei thirsting for power after being her father’s pawn (along with a bit of her own psychopath)
Sansa surviving Joffrey and Ramsey
Arya surviving on her own
Dany surviving being sold by her brother and used by Drogo (before he fell in love with her)
Theon’s sister after being treated as second best by her father despite the fact that she was just as good as if not better than the guys

All of them are what the men made them to be. they are what they had to be to survive.

Definitely. I think one of the biggest themes of the show has been the rise of these women.

With that in mind I suppose another option is that Dany will slowly come to realise that she was never going to be able to rule the Seven Kingdoms and chooses to go back across the sea to where she is loved and also to a part of the world that she understands.

[Skydiver]

Go for a ‘the only way to win is not to play’ idea?

[SoulReaver]

Something does occur that there is one form of evidence Jon has that he is Targaryen born. He's the only other who the Dragons allow to ride them.

but then when Rhaegon let Jon mount him Dany would've reacted & said something along the lines of "that's impossible you're not one of us"
instead she showed no surprise

also remember how Rhaegon & Viserion let Tyrion near them (and we know he's got no Targaryen ancestry)

GRRM's dragons are supposed to be highly intelligent by animal standards comparable to dogs iirc maybe they just have an intuition that allows them to tell between well-meaning & ill-meaning strangers

[SoulReaver]

here's another one how come Cersei was glad the dead broke through the wall?

[Skydiver]

here's another one how come Cersei was glad the dead broke through the wall?

Perhaps she’s counting on the dead to kill off all her enemies so she doesn’t have to

[SoulReaver]

Perhaps she’s counting on the dead to kill off all her enemies so she doesn’t have to

but she knows the dead only add the defeated to their ranks & she'll have to face an even bigger army of much tougher enemies so that can't be it