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  1. #21
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    Quote Originally Posted by Skydiver View Post
    Well, for Sam, I’d imagine Dad is good riddance. Man was a jerk to Sam. But he will be upset over the brother. There was some genuine fraternal affection there.

    And true about Jon’s claim. There is no proof. Dany’s is pretty undeniable, or has been accepted as truth for 20 years.

    The downside about her, she has a thread of brutal in her. And while some leaders do need to be brutal, they need to temper it. And she has a long standing history of mass killings (granted they have not been nice people but still, benevolent ruler she may not necessarily be)
    I think this season will show her to be as much of a tyrant as the Mad King was. The Mad King was said to be very fair and caring when he was young and slowly went insane. I think if there's one thing we've learnt over the series is that Incest makes for some truly insane rulers. One way or another I don't thing Dany will come to take the throne. I suspect if Jon does then the Seven Kingdoms will be much different. He may choose to rule from afar. Maybe from the Wall or Dragonstone, while the rest of the Kingdom is left to rule its own affairs. Sansa as Lady of Winterfell, Tyrion taking Lordship of Casterly Rock and so on.

    Something does occur that there is one form of evidence Jon has that he is Targaryen born. He's the only other who the Dragons allow to ride them.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    Quote Originally Posted by Teddybrown View Post
    Was what Arya asking Gendry to make her, didnt get a good look at it?
    I'm not sure but it looks like a spear handle with an interchangeable head.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    It's good to be back in Winterfell. It was nice seeing all the reunions, especially of characters who hadn't seen one another for so many years. I'm also glad that they dealt with Snow's identity quite quickly. It'll be great to see him cope with it.
    I was kind of hoping for what happens at the end of the episode, and am quite impatient to see what goes on next week.

  4. #24
    You call that a glowstick?
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    I think this season will show her to be as much of a tyrant as the Mad King was. The Mad King was said to be very fair and caring when he was young and slowly went insane. I think if there's one thing we've learnt over the series is that Incest makes for some truly insane rulers. One way or another I don't thing Dany will come to take the throne. I suspect if Jon does then the Seven Kingdoms will be much different. He may choose to rule from afar. Maybe from the Wall or Dragonstone, while the rest of the Kingdom is left to rule its own affairs. Sansa as Lady of Winterfell, Tyrion taking Lordship of Casterly Rock and so on.

    Something does occur that there is one form of evidence Jon has that he is Targaryen born. He's the only other who the Dragons allow to ride them.
    I do agree about Dany. She has a vicious tendency and can be quite unforgiving. One might also say cruel, although thus far it has only been to those that deserved it (the slavers) but that is a slippery slope, especially if one in absolute power decides who is or isn’t worthy.

    I do think anyone hoping for ‘happily ever after happy family’ is going to be disappointed. Dany and Jon are doomed.

    One thing is, as much as those talking about how women are and have been treated...who are the main points of power at the moment? Women that have been abused and survived their abusers.

    Cersei thirsting for power after being her father’s pawn (along with a bit of her own psychopath)
    Sansa surviving Joffrey and Ramsey
    Arya surviving on her own
    Dany surviving being sold by her brother and used by Drogo (before he fell in love with her)
    Theon’s sister after being treated as second best by her father despite the fact that she was just as good as if not better than the guys

    All of them are what the men made them to be. they are what they had to be to survive.

  5. #25
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    Quote Originally Posted by Skydiver View Post
    I do agree about Dany. She has a vicious tendency and can be quite unforgiving. One might also say cruel, although thus far it has only been to those that deserved it (the slavers) but that is a slippery slope, especially if one in absolute power decides who is or isn’t worthy.

    I do think anyone hoping for ‘happily ever after happy family’ is going to be disappointed. Dany and Jon are doomed.

    One thing is, as much as those talking about how women are and have been treated...who are the main points of power at the moment? Women that have been abused and survived their abusers.

    Cersei thirsting for power after being her father’s pawn (along with a bit of her own psychopath)
    Sansa surviving Joffrey and Ramsey
    Arya surviving on her own
    Dany surviving being sold by her brother and used by Drogo (before he fell in love with her)
    Theon’s sister after being treated as second best by her father despite the fact that she was just as good as if not better than the guys

    All of them are what the men made them to be. they are what they had to be to survive.
    Definitely. I think one of the biggest themes of the show has been the rise of these women.

    With that in mind I suppose another option is that Dany will slowly come to realise that she was never going to be able to rule the Seven Kingdoms and chooses to go back across the sea to where she is loved and also to a part of the world that she understands.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  6. #26
    You call that a glowstick?
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    Go for a ‘the only way to win is not to play’ idea?

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    Something does occur that there is one form of evidence Jon has that he is Targaryen born. He's the only other who the Dragons allow to ride them.
    but then when Rhaegon let Jon mount him Dany would've reacted & said something along the lines of "that's impossible you're not one of us"
    instead she showed no surprise

    also remember how Rhaegon & Viserion let Tyrion near them (and we know he's got no Targaryen ancestry)

    GRRM's dragons are supposed to be highly intelligent by animal standards comparable to dogs iirc maybe they just have an intuition that allows them to tell between well-meaning & ill-meaning strangers

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    here's another one how come Cersei was glad the dead broke through the wall?

  9. #29
    You call that a glowstick?
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulReaver View Post
    here's another one how come Cersei was glad the dead broke through the wall?
    Perhaps she’s counting on the dead to kill off all her enemies so she doesn’t have to

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    Quote Originally Posted by Skydiver View Post
    Perhaps she’s counting on the dead to kill off all her enemies so she doesn’t have to
    but she knows the dead only add the defeated to their ranks & she'll have to face an even bigger army of much tougher enemies so that can't be it

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulReaver View Post
    but then when Rhaegon let Jon mount him Dany would've reacted & said something along the lines of "that's impossible you're not one of us"
    instead she showed no surprise

    also remember how Rhaegon & Viserion let Tyrion near them (and we know he's got no Targaryen ancestry)

    GRRM's dragons are supposed to be highly intelligent by animal standards comparable to dogs iirc maybe they just have an intuition that allows them to tell between well-meaning & ill-meaning strangers
    Ahhh but no one else has ever tried riding them before. Dany might not quite understand the significance. She just thinks "Oh well I love this man so of course my dragons let him ride them." Riding is very different to simply being allowed to get near them or unshackle them like Tyrion did. They were still wary of Tyrion but they instantly were becalmed by Jon.

    I think we may actually get a glimpse of this in the weeks to come. Arya has always been enamoured by dragons so I wouldn't be surprised if Jon, in an attempt to be big brotherly, tries to get her to ride one and it simply won't let her. That'll be the first clue toward how to prove he is the rightful heir.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulReaver View Post
    but she knows the dead only add the defeated to their ranks & she'll have to face an even bigger army of much tougher enemies so that can't be it
    Honestly I'm wondering if she cares at all. I mean ever since she became queen she's just seemed to be going through the motions. Forming alliances with the very few that haven't pissed her off and being determined to not bow down to the rest. I wonder if now she knows a out the White Walkers her brain has just completely melted and his just like "You know what, to hell with everyone and everything. I will be the LAST queen of Westeros."

    The alternative is actually more simple. Cersei has always been politically savvy but completely clueless in military matters. Maybe she thinks the North will soften up the dead army enough that the Lannister army can finish it off.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    Ahhh but no one else has ever tried riding them before. Dany might not quite understand the significance. She just thinks "Oh well I love this man so of course my dragons let him ride them." Riding is very different to simply being allowed to get near them or unshackle them like Tyrion did. They were still wary of Tyrion but they instantly were becalmed by Jon.
    ah but then if Dany's not aware of the "only Targs can ride dragons" rule then there goes another piece of evidence in Jon's favour :|

    I think we may actually get a glimpse of this in the weeks to come. Arya has always been enamoured by dragons so I wouldn't be surprised if Jon, in an attempt to be big brotherly, tries to get her to ride one and it simply won't let her. That'll be the first clue toward how to prove he is the rightful heir.
    fair enough could work. trying to ride a recalcitrant dragon can be very dangerous though as Dany pointed out so whoever tries would have to be willing to risk becoming dragon snack

    (remember Dany's comeback: "what do dragons eat?" "anything they want" lol)

    and Dany doesn't know the rule so this would be a clue but the evidence would still be flimsy

    could Bran somehow project his visions onto other humans? make them see what he sees

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    Honestly I'm wondering if she cares at all.
    but she clearly said "good" not "yeah whatever" or something


    crazy scenario maybe she made a pact with the NK himself but unlikely (though I wouldn't put such a tactic past Euron at least the book Euron going by what I read about him)

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulReaver View Post
    but she clearly said "good" not "yeah whatever" or something


    crazy scenario maybe she made a pact with the NK himself but unlikely (though I wouldn't put such a tactic past Euron at least the book Euron going by what I read about him)
    I mean like she doesn't care in the sense that after losing all her children she just wants the world to burn. I mean I know she's supposed to be pregnant again but maybe she just figures that the prophecy has been so correct so far that she won't carry it to term.

    Of course the OTHER reason why she could be glad is that she's waiting for Tyrion and Jaime to be dead at which point the ending of the prophecy cannot possibly be true.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulReaver View Post
    ah but then if Dany's not aware of the "only Targs can ride dragons" rule then there goes another piece of evidence in Jon's favour :|

    fair enough could work. trying to ride a recalcitrant dragon can be very dangerous though as Dany pointed out so whoever tries would have to be willing to risk becoming dragon snack

    (remember Dany's comeback: "what do dragons eat?" "anything they want" lol)

    and Dany doesn't know the rule so this would be a clue but the evidence would still be flimsy

    could Bran somehow project his visions onto other humans? make them see what he sees
    It ultimately doesn't matter if Dany knows or not. It's what the people know and we know from the very beginning that legends of the Targaryen dragons run far and wide in Westeros and we have not once (to my recollection) ever heard of a non-Targaryen riding a dragon and that is something that will stand out to people.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  17. #37
    You call that a glowstick?
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    Or she plans to retreat to the Iron Islands courtesy of Enron and lets the rest burn.

    Or she’s just plain bugnuts. The woman murdered hundreds to get revenge.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    Of course the OTHER reason why she could be glad is that she's waiting for Tyrion and Jaime to be dead at which point the ending of the prophecy cannot possibly be true.
    reading the words of the prophecy carefully even Jaime & Tyrion's deaths won't annul it

    but they left the valonqar part out of the show so either she'll be offed another way, or the witch did mention it but Cersei kept it to herself (a quick Broogle could confirm that)

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    As far as the books goes the Targaryen-vip rule for dragons is correct. It's also corroborated in the "World" book about lineages and history.

    I'm disappointed that nobody mentioned the dead-eye stare the dragon gave Jon during their romantic escapade, made me lol "you break her heart I cook yours capiche?"

    But it might be a subtle hint masqueraded in a joke that the dragon smells a Targaryen in Jon. He smells his true master, the King in the North! ... and the south and the West and the..
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Episode 801 - Winterfell

    lol yeah that was funny the dragons are like her guard dogs & Drogon was like "one false move and..."
    he was always her favourite dragon but also the most dangerous & unpredictable I wonder how he'd react to Ghost

    (hope the remaining Stark doggies & Dany's dragons make it through)

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