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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2 (214)

    Why does Enterprise have robots that repair the ship ? Why do they have drones that can be used in battle ?
    Why dont they have them in 100 years in the future with TNG or in DS9 in dominion war these things would of been very helpful.

    It's ok to say "get off my A**" to a commanding officer and then say it multiple times more by correcting sir behind it. As it coming from female it's ok ? A lot of this show has hate over man.
    Why did we even need cap. Pike in it ? Was he ever useful other then fallowing orders of Burnham ?

    If they would of made it as a reboot then maybe all this will be ok. Like they had hologram communication taken away from enterprise and never be used again.

    Whats the 3rd season be about when Discovery and all the crew is highly classified ? They cant never return and in the future they are like caveman. Or we get Enterprise as the third season ?

    They have just too much problems to be in the cannon and on that mostly on technical part of it.

    Most funny part of it was the 2-3 inch thick blast door that stopped all the explosion for Spike to watch trough the glass. While the bomb took out half the ship and didnt do anything.

    How did Kalpins get ships ? While getting ships is one thing the other is how they learn to fly them and even fight with them in that really short time period after there home war.

    That princess knew how to charge time crystal with supernova power but had hard time to make correct ice cream ? Like for real ? Dont they have these simple replicator technology common thing to make food and everything ? Why cant Tilly just give the recipe for the ice cream or just scan it and replicate it ?

    This show would of been good if not star trek prequel and as just new and reboot of the cannon. Then all of that would of been different. Can use more advance technology and past it on to enterprise and so on for future other tv shows like sector 31 or even the Picard series that i have a big fair that they screw it up as they mentioned it to be a lot different. We have seen what means a lot different with Stargate already and that failed a lot with universe.
    sorry about my lack of language skills as it is not my daily language and have learned it by my self as not from any help of others or a school

  2. #22
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2 (214)

    Quote Originally Posted by lopo30 View Post
    Why does Enterprise have robots that repair the ship ? Why do they have drones that can be used in battle ?
    Why dont they have them in 100 years in the future with TNG or in DS9 in dominion war these things would of been very helpful.
    Who is to say they didn’t? Certainly it would better help to explain how Voyager finished every episode intact after taking heavy damage from Borg Cubes and Hirogen hunting parties.

    It's ok to say "get off my A**" to a commanding officer and then say it multiple times more by correcting sir behind it. As it coming from female it's ok ? A lot of this show has hate over man.
    Why did we even need cap. Pike in it ? Was he ever useful other then fallowing orders of Burnham ?
    None of this show has hate for men. THat is just... I can’t even describe how blatantly stupid that sounds. Reno is eccentric. We know that from the start when we meet her character. She corrects herself because she realised she was being disrespetful to a senior officer, she’s shown throughout the season of being below decks and mostly keeping away from others after being on her own on her medical frigate for better part of a year. The fact that she is clearly a genius level engineer but was serving aboard a medical frigate probably demonstrates a long way that she is not a squeaky clean starfleet officer that plays well with others very well.
    Additionally. At no point did Burnham ever give an order to Pike. She did make her points strongly, but that is shown to be part of her character. Spock and Georgiou even point out that this is part of a deep seated character flaw that she has, and frankly I think it’s a matter of time before it bites her in the ass. If it was Spock making suggestions to Pike or Kirk in that manner, no one would bat an eyelid. And it may have escaped your notice but men in this season have been shown in a highly positive light. Whether it be Pike being downright heroic knowing what is in his future but choosing to do his duty anyway, Stamets risking himself for Tilly, Culber facing down issues with his mental health and Saru... well basically being as awesome as he usually is. The show DOES NOT HATE ON MEN. Just because the show has more female cast members than any other Trek show (Hurrah by the way) it does not mean it is anti-men.

    If they would of made it as a reboot then maybe all this will be ok. Like they had hologram communication taken away from enterprise and never be used again.
    If it really bothers you then consider it a sequel to Enterprise rather than a prequel to Star Trek. Enterprise already had all of the Temporal shenanigans. Personally I don’t go in for that. I have no problem reconciling DSC with TOS. I can understand why some people do, but again there is nothing in canon that states that holograms of the type seen in Discovery are not a thing in the 23rd Century.

    Whats the 3rd season be about when Discovery and all the crew is highly classified ? They cant never return and in the future they are like caveman. Or we get Enterprise as the third season ?
    It’s confirmed that for the time being they are going to be stuck in the future. How that will impact them in terms of technology, we shall see. Personally I’m looking forward to it. The ship will be on its own with a huge disadvantage with its only advantage being that it can Spore Jump. I like that. We might get something like what Voyager should be where they have to scavange for new tech. But we know from TNG and VOY that there are plenty of alien races with massively outdated tchnology compared to the Federation. Couple with that the possibility that the Galaxy might not even exist in a recognisable state to what we know it now (they’ve gone beyong the latest point we know of in Star Trek) then they could be in a much better state than you think. There is a big call for a separate Pike tv show though.

    They have just too much problems to be in the cannon and on that mostly on technical part of it.
    Again I don’t agree. To me there is no problem with imagining that TOS had the same design and level of technology and they still get to tell the same stories. Otherwise TOS is so massively outdated for most of its technology now that having something similar would be unrealistic. I mean, when Enterprise came out people were say THAT looked too advanced so...

    Most funny part of it was the 2-3 inch thick blast door that stopped all the explosion for Spike to watch trough the glass. While the bomb took out half the ship and didnt do anything.
    Yeah this was pretty stupid. I mean, I’m ok with the blast door. In my head it’s just protected with a powerful forcefield. Like a reinforced Structural Integrity Field, it was more the fact that the explosion happened and it didn’t even rock the ship. That was bad thinking on the director’s part.

    How did Kalpins get ships ? While getting ships is one thing the other is how they learn to fly them and even fight with them in that really short time period after there home war.
    Clear stolen from the Ba’ul. As for how they’d have the knowledge to use them, Saru figured out how to piece together Ba’ul tech and make a communication transmitter work in Short Treks so I’d say it’s demonstrated that Kelpians are hyper intelligent and could theoretically figure it out.

    That princess knew how to charge time crystal with supernova power but had hard time to make correct ice cream ? Like for real ? Dont they have these simple replicator technology common thing to make food and everything ? Why cant Tilly just give the recipe for the ice cream or just scan it and replicate it ?
    My brother is a computer programmer for a living but can’t figure out how to boil an egg (I’m not kidding, he really can’t) one does not necessarily follow the other. Maybe Tilly did give the recipe after that. As far as we know they had not spoken since the Short Treks episode she was in.

    This show would of been good if not star trek prequel and as just new and reboot of the cannon. Then all of that would of been different. Can use more advance technology and past it on to enterprise and so on for future other tv shows like sector 31 or even the Picard series that i have a big fair that they screw it up as they mentioned it to be a lot different. We have seen what means a lot different with Stargate already and that failed a lot with universe.
    Ok so here is why it’s a prequel and not a reboot...

    My girlfriend watched Discovery with me. She knows bits and pieces about Star Trek but she’s never been a fan as such. She’s just seen odd episodes of TNG and Voyager really. Two really good friends of mine watched it and had much the same experience as well. All three of them loved it. And all the way through I have been fielding questions from the all like “Oh ok, so I know Pike from the movies but what’s his story in this?” and I’m like well wait and see but he’s only been in two episodes of TOS and so on. And then they will go on and go “So is Section 31 just a Discovery thing then?” And I say no it shows up later in DS9 but it’s like super secret. “So how does no one know about it?” and the questions go on. They get super seriously engaged with it and unlike “fans” who just seemingly poke holes in the show and can’t enjoy it I’ve found that they all theory craft. And they’ll come up with ideas and ask me what I think and I’ll say “Well that’s cool but it doesn’t fit with what we know from this episode of TNG...” or words to that effect and then they’ll go back and think around the problem some more. IT’s great to see and they want to check out other episodes of other series.

    I mean sure. There’d be interest if it was a sequel too. But they wouldn’t necessarily want to see the entire depth and breadth of Trek. They might just want to check out the 24th Century shows or maybe just Voyager or DS9. If it were a reboot there possibly wouldn’t even be that, because where’s the point? They aren’t linked any more. But by putting the show in the very heart of the timeline it generates so much more interest. And this is a common thing I am experiencing. Prior Trek Fans either love it or are very critical of it, but the casual viewers, who are joining because it looked cool and haven’t watched Star Trek before are super engaged by it and honestly it’s the same attitude that I encountered back in 2005 when Doctor Who started up again. A lot of old school fans hated it because the TARDIS looked all wrong and the Doctor was too much of an action hero and wow he actually kissed a companion BUT it brought on board a whole new generation of fans. And that is what Discovery and hopefull the other shows are doing for Star Trek.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  3. #23
    John Diggle DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2 (214)

    I like you, P90, and would like to subscribe to your magazine.
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2 (214)

    Quote Originally Posted by lopo30 View Post
    Most funny part of it was the 2-3 inch thick blast door that stopped all the explosion for Spike to watch through the glass. While the bomb took out half the ship and didnt do anything.
    I found that having the admiral going along with Number One to deal with the torpedo was also rather odd. An admiral with limited to no technical knowledge (as far as we know or have seen) was a bit of a stretch.

    Maybe this was a nod to the procedures in "Dark Star" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-d5RGx3IH8) where they have to argue philosophy with their smart bombs.

    regards,
    G.
    Go for Marty...

  5. #25
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2 (214)

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    I like you, P90, and would like to subscribe to your magazine.
    Ha! Sorry. Have a lot of thoughts to get out. I do honestly have plans to get started on a YouTube channel though.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  6. #26
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2 (214)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gollumpus View Post
    I found that having the admiral going along with Number One to deal with the torpedo was also rather odd. An admiral with limited to no technical knowledge (as far as we know or have seen) was a bit of a stretch.

    Maybe this was a nod to the procedures in "Dark Star" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-d5RGx3IH8) where they have to argue philosophy with their smart bombs.

    regards,
    G.
    I dunno about that. We know she was trained in psychiatry or psychology but to get to the point of Admiral then her career must have branched out from that substantially so there's no reason to believe she wouldn't have those skills.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  7. #27
    John Diggle DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2 (214)

    I've always taken it as read that the Captain of a starship needs to be able to do the job of pretty well anyone on his/her ship (within reason, of course -- I'd expect a Captain to be able to chart courses/fly the ship/make repairs/etc., but I wouldn't expect him/her to be able to do open heart surgery). And as one has to be a Captain before they make Admiral, it would naturally follow that Cornwell would have a pretty broad skill set to draw on, whatever her original specialization was.
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

  8. #28
    Major General BruTak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2 (214)

    You've pretty much nailed it DigiFluid.

    To be the commanding officer of a ship, you must have a wide knowledge of how your ship works and what your crew can do.

    And as for Admiral Cornwall, well, even the highest Admiral was once a lowly Ensign.

    Long before you and I were born, others beat these benches with their empty cups,
    To the night and its stars, to the here and now with who we are.

    Another sunrise with my sad captains, with who I choose to lose my mind,
    And if it's all we only pass this way but once, what a perfect waste of time.

  9. #29
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2 (214)

    It's also worth noting that since Captains are involved in First Contacts and other types of deep space diplomacy, having a captain who is highly qualified in psychology would be a huge asset.

    I did like her sacrifice. The way she stepped up to deal with the Torpedo kinda reminded me of Kirk at the beginning of Generations. Plus I mean, she was really the only person without a job to do before that.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  10. #30
    Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2 (214)

    Life is good. I have watched Avengers : Endgame, GoT 8x03 and now ST: D 2x14 within one day.

    This episode was simply amazing. It deserves a few Emmy awards as the special effects are movie quality. The wormhole and the time travel effects! OMG.

    This space battle was the best so far in tv history and it has faded away the crown of BSG. Discovery rules.

    Still the best part was the shuttle fight in changing gravity. They were able to remake the famous corrifor fight scene from "Inception". I am pretty sure they have rotated the while shuttle set as you can follow the way of the debris around the actors. This very complicated scene was so great that I had to applause like a child.

  11. #31
    Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2 (214)

    "Not hard is boring. And I HATE BORING!" - Georgiou

    I love this character officially.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."

  12. #32
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2 (214)

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    Life is good. I have watched Avengers : Endgame, GoT 8x03 and now ST: D 2x14 within one day.

    This episode was simply amazing. It deserves a few Emmy awards as the special effects are movie quality. The wormhole and the time travel effects! OMG.

    This space battle was the best so far in tv history and it has faded away the crown of BSG. Discovery rules.

    Still the best part was the shuttle fight in changing gravity. They were able to remake the famous corrifor fight scene from "Inception". I am pretty sure they have rotated the while shuttle set as you can follow the way of the debris around the actors. This very complicated scene was so great that I had to applause like a child.
    I think I will probably hear by name April 2019 as “The Month of the Three Battles”.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  13. #33
    Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2 (214)

    And they were all special and extraordinary.

    I can't wait to see what the future holds for the Star Trek universe as now they have got free hands to introduce whatever they want. But maybe we should talk about this in the season 3 thread.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."

  14. #34

    Jack Re: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2 (214)

    I finally watched Discovery Season 2. I found the early part of the season almost unbearable. But once "the search for Spock" ended, I felt myself getting more interested. Not that I particularly liked this version of Spock (though he wasn't bad), but the build up to his appearance was super annoying. However, I thought Pike was a good Captain. Much better than Lorca.

    IDK what it is, but I hate the technobabble in Discovery. I'm not sure if there's too much, or something (but there are definitely too many sciencey characters on the show: Burnham, Saru, Stamets, Tilly, Spock) but it's something that doesn't usually bother me in Trek or sci-fi in general.

    Aside from the typical prequel problems, I also feel like Discovery suffers from being caught in between the sensibilities of a modern tv drama and the old school tv sensibilities of classic Star Trek. It feels like it doesn't really know what it wants to be and kind of plays this middle ground and ends up not working in either respect.

    Spoiler:
    Sending them 930 years in the future feels like it's way too far of a jump. Season 3 (and possibly beyond) are now basically Voyager but they're strangers in a strange time instead of a strange land. There's tremendous potential there, but I can't help but thinking they'd have been better off setting this in the 25th century to begin with.

    It was a really stupid idea to try and fit a prequel series in so tight a window to TOS. And that's even if they didn't insert the lead character so deeply into the life of one of the most important characters in all of Star Trek. Better late than never that they realized that, but they could have just set it in the "present" in the first place and avoided the need for a total reset.

    Oh, and explaining why Discovery, the Spore Drive, and Michael are never mentioned again by having Starfleet order them to never speak of it again was not good. People don't work like that. Like someone would mention them again. I would be totally fine with Spock telling Kirk or whoever about it all off screen at some point, but the idea that all those people would keep it under wraps, not to mention the Klingons… I'd rather there been no explanation than be told we never heard about it because there was a massive cover up that magically somehow worked. But that's what happens with prequels.

    All that said. I do think the next season could be really interesting with this new premise. I'm curious as to how the Short Trek episode, Calypso, plays into this. The AI says the crew left 1,000 years ago and everything I've read says it takes place in the 33rd century, so there wouldn't be a thousand years for the crew to have left the ship.

    I was surprised they brought Georgiou into the future with them given that she's supposed to be headlining a Section 31 series, but whatever I'm sure they'll find some way to get her back to the original time frame.

    Something else I found interesting was some people theorizing that Discovery never took place in the Prime Universe. That the Red Angel telling young Spock where Michael was so she could be rescued created a divergent timeline where the events of Discovery take place. So then in the Prime Timeline, Spock's family did take in a human orphan named Michael Burnham, but she was killed while trying to run away. Given all the continuity issues, I'd almost rather they had gone with this as their way out of the box they'd put themselves in rather than moving to the far flung future.

    Also, this show does a really bad job of developing the bridge crew, but then acts like they're main characters at random points. Like was I supposed to have an emotional attachment to Ariam? Whose name I definitely only know because I looked her up on memory alpha to see how her being in Starfleet jives with Data being the first and only Android in Starfleet.


    One last thing re: Spock. I don't really remember anything about Star Trek V, or the circumstances of Sybok being Spock's brother or whatever, so maybe the answer to this is self evident, but like where is he in all this?

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2 (214)

    I agree with alot of what you said Major Griff. I too have issues with all the technobabble and the lack of character development of the bridge crew. I barely knew their names and there was too much time spent focusing on Michael's character. I mean granted the story is told from her perspective, but that is a major departure from the Trek universe IMO. Well actually typically, it's told from the Captain's perspective, but I really enjoyed the teamwork we got from TNG and even TOS. There is a team on Disco but it just doesn't feel very "teamy". We got a few character episodes that focused on other characters, but mainly it seemed to circle back to Michael and how it impacted her or whatever.
    Spoiler:
    I have issue that she was the Red Angel and/or her mom and it had to come down to her and her mom saving the entire sentient race. That to me seems so unoriginal and sort of a cop out. I love it when the team has to really work together to solve problems and get out of the jam they are in. I mean they work together to get that suit together, but again it's all so that Michael can fly off and save the day.
    I'm with you also about the 1000 year jump. I kept saying during each episode, how are they going to never mention the spore drive or Spock's sister.....I mean I'm with you I'd rather see a mirrored universe or something like that. Finally, I loved Pike as captain and really enjoyed him and then Spock (once he cleaned up ...didn't like the beard). I was actually bummed at the end of the season when I realized I would not be seeing those characters each week. I grew to enjoy the Enterprise crew almost more than the Disco crew. I think again it was all about them not developing the Disco crew and/or it's always about Michael. I mean I like the character it's just I think they have devoted too much of the plot and screen time around her character IMO. Either way I will tune in when the new season begins. Any word on the new character played by David Ajala and how he will round out the crew? Let's hope he's not another science nerd and we can get some bad assery going on!! LOL


    As for the science-y stuff...yes I mean I found myself running it back and listening over and over (Jelgate would say it's because I'm a stupid teacher and can't keep up) but I say it's because some of the stuff they talk about is just too much and it's not necessary to be that techno babbly!

    One note on the CBS all Access user interface. Does anyone else hate it? It's almost unusable with vid glitches and I had to suffer through the three dots of "wait I'm streaming to catch up" that was ridiculous. I have Netflix and Prime and don't have half the issues with those services. Anyone else have those problems? Ok I'm done. LOL I really did like having some Trek to watch after I chewed through Picard. Which is another whole discussion elsewhere!! So don't get me wrong or try to convert me! I enjoyed the show, you all just stated the awesome things so much better than I could and I just had to chime in with the issues that I felt the show fell short on.
    Quote Originally Posted by jelgate View Post
    This brings much pain but SQ is right

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