Such Sweet Sorrow (213)

[GateWorld]

STAR TREK: DISCOVERY - SEASON TWO
SUCH SWEET SORROW
EPISODE NUMBER - 213

After failing to destroy Discovery the crew decide upon a final plan to keep the sphere data out of the hands of Control, putting Michael in a position where she may never see her loved ones again.

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[Gollumpus]

Just sec, I think the janitor down on Deck 12 needs to have an emotional send off...

regards,
D.

[DigiFluid]

Another FANTASTIC episode.

I don't wnat any of this cast killed off, I want to keep them all.

Oh my god, the Enterprise. So much Enterprise, and still not enough

[P-90_177]

The Enterprise was GORGEOUS! I mean... I like the Abrams movies but that is what their Bridge SHOULD have looked like. So perfect.

That cliffhanger was so annoying but loved the episode in general. Can’t wait for next week but at the same time I don’t want it to be over again.

I loved all the little character moments. It kinda feels almost like they wrote this season with the thought that it might be the show’s last. Which would explain a lot. Either that or it’s an indicator that they really are going to reset the timeline which I really hope they don’t . I really don’t want them to bow from the pressure of the haters.

It was cool to see Po again. I wasn’t expecting that, but... I do think there could have been another technobabble way to solve the issue and thus give more time to characters we care about. I mean why not change the Po scenes to scenes where Burnham, Tilly and Stamets are working together?

In an opposite fashion though I kinda feel like we should have had more Reno over the course of the season if they were building up to her making this apparent sacrifice... plus wouldn’t Stamets have made more sense? He’s the one that can make sense of temporal anomalies so surely any issues with seeing time flashes or whatever he’d be able to navigate through.

But in the end I won’t judge the Po and Reno stuff too harshly until we have the finale. Po might be more important than we realise and if Reno is still aboard for another season we may get some more of Her and see the aftermath of what she’s doing. Plus this does kind of make clear now that Burnham is going to set up the red bursts to find things that will ultimately assist Disco in the mission and the first burst did lead them to Reno so...

The only thing that irked me is that apparent photon torpedo that will get lodged in the Enterprise... I mean it’s huge... I mean yeah you can explain it away in a few ways but still, that isn’t a torpedo.

I’ve been racking my brain this season what Discovery felt like. I mean it feels like Star Trek at it’s core which is great but there’s something about the style, presentation and pacing that’s been feeling familiar to me for a while now and I suddenly realised what it is. It’s Doctor Who. It’s that wild, ocassionally non-sensical but still awesome lead up to a finale that I’m used to seeing during Steven Moffat’s tenure as show runner... just an observation I thought i’d Share.

[DigiFluid]

The Enterprise was GORGEOUS! I mean... I like the Abrams movies but that is what their Bridge SHOULD have looked like. So perfect.

A-flippin'-men. Everybody loves to talk about having nerdgasms over things, but oh my god I was drinking that beauty in like nobody's business. Amazing, top to bottom, back to front. Loved, loved, loved it.

It was cool to see Po again. I wasn’t expecting that, but... I do think there could have been another technobabble way to solve the issue and thus give more time to characters we care about. I mean why not change the Po scenes to scenes where Burnham, Tilly and Stamets are working together?

Technobabble or not, I'm pretty thrilled that they chose to tie at least this Short Trek into the season of the 'main' series. I had expected the Short Treks to be kind of their own entity, in the way that companion webisode series are often completely ignored by their parent series and may as well not even exist. To tie it in like this and actually acknowledge that they exist and matter is pretty awesome. Have we worked out where "Runaway" actually fits into the chronology yet? It needs to be sometime during the Season 2 timeframe, because in it Tilly says she's an ensign and the Starfleet medal is in her quarters (both the promotion and the medal happen in the closing moments of the Season 1 finale), but there aren't a lot of gaps in the episode-to-episode chronology of Season 2.

On a related note: I am also seriously wondering whether the Short Trek episode "Calypso" has already told us how this season is going to end. This episode had the program taking over Discovery's computer and doing things with a mind of its own, and there's this whole plot about using the time crystal to take it to the future. Way back last year when "Calypso" came out, we were treated to an abandoned Discovery a thousand years in the future, with the ship's computer fully sentient.

Is Star Trek: Discovery going to lose Discovery when this season ends? (Are we finally going to get a ship that isn't turd-ugly??)

In an opposite fashion though I kinda feel like we should have had more Reno over the course of the season if they were building up to her making this apparent sacrifice... plus wouldn’t Stamets have made more sense? He’s the one that can make sense of temporal anomalies so surely any issues with seeing time flashes or whatever he’d be able to navigate through.

I am so hoping she doesn't die. They've kind of been telegraphing that Stamets might leave this season, and while I really hope that doesn't happen, I'd be happy with her as his replacement in Season 3.

The only thing that irked me is that apparent photon torpedo that will get lodged in the Enterprise... I mean it’s huge... I mean yeah you can explain it away in a few ways but still, that isn’t a torpedo.

I didn't think it was a torpedo, personally. I thought it was something much bigger, like one of the bazillion little shuttle/fighter/support craft that we saw zipping around as the cliffhanger loomed. Or maybe like the future enhanced probe we saw a few episodes back. In any case, I really had the impression that it was some object that wasn't a torpedo. Just my take, though.

[Cmdr Sean Coll]

Loving the Enterprise!!
But the whole send Discovery into the future plan is just so dumb!! Just take her to the nearest star and by the use of demolition charges destroy her warp drive, shield emitters and docking thrusters and have the Enterprise tractor her into the star. Hell to make doubly sure have every photon warhead spaced out all over the ship rigged to go off on a time delay to make sure the ship is destroyed and the star destroys what's left.

[DigiFluid]

^ I’m not sure they have the resources. Aren’t they still considered fugitives from Starfleet? So the only resources they’d have are whatever they happened to have aboard Discovery and the Enterprise. And even then, there’s nothing to say that the semisentient Discovery computer wouldn’t find a way to prevent it.

[P-90_177]

^ I’m not sure they have the resources. Aren’t they still considered fugitives from Starfleet? So the only resources they’d have are whatever they happened to have aboard Discovery and the Enterprise. And even then, there’s nothing to say that the semisentient Discovery computer wouldn’t find a way to prevent it.

I don’t think they’re fugitives now, but they do seem to be cut off from Starfleet. Burnham mentions that they were out of reach of a sub space relay. That being said I don’t think it’s resources that are the problem so much as now they can be fairly sure the sphere data won’t allow itself to be destroyed and they potentially risk it basically handing itself over to Control or otherwise harming the crew if they tried. I’m sure as a last ditch contingency plan though they’ll just send someone into the warp reactor with a phaser and shoot the thing until it breaches but they might as well save that as a last case scenario.

[P-90_177]

A-flippin'-men. Everybody loves to talk about having nerdgasms over things, but oh my god I was drinking that beauty in like nobody's business. Amazing, top to bottom, back to front. Loved, loved, loved it.

I keep looking at it and find more things to love too. Like how the science station has the boxy viewer thing and how Helm has it’s extendable periscope...

Technobabble or not, I'm pretty thrilled that they chose to tie at least this Short Trek into the season of the 'main' series. I had expected the Short Treks to be kind of their own entity, in the way that companion webisode series are often completely ignored by their parent series and may as well not even exist. To tie it in like this and actually acknowledge that they exist and matter is pretty awesome. Have we worked out where "Runaway" actually fits into the chronology yet? It needs to be sometime during the Season 2 timeframe, because in it Tilly says she's an ensign and the Starfleet medal is in her quarters (both the promotion and the medal happen in the closing moments of the Season 1 finale), but there aren't a lot of gaps in the episode-to-episode chronology of Season 2.

My current theory is that it’s actually set either before “Brother” or during it. I’m of the belief that although the pacing of the show doesn’t make it obvious that the warp jumps take a lot longer than they seem, possibly even with breaks in between for whatever reason. If it’s during “Brother” then it is when Disco is on its way to the first red burst. If it’s before it, then I think it was either while Disco was on its way to Vulcan OR, my preferred theory is that at the end of the last season Disco had a brief shakedown cruise before it made its way to Vulcan, as we can tell in the show the ship has undergone a refit (hence why engineering has a side door that wasn’t there before.)

On a related note: I am also seriously wondering whether the Short Trek episode "Calypso" has already told us how this season is going to end. This episode had the program taking over Discovery's computer and doing things with a mind of its own, and there's this whole plot about using the time crystal to take it to the future. Way back last year when "Calypso" came out, we were treated to an abandoned Discovery a thousand years in the future, with the ship's computer fully sentient.

This occurred to me as well. I actually had a thought that maybe how the season will end is the Disco crew safe and sound and somehow made it back to their time but the ship was lost in the future with Burnham on a quest to find her in the suit. Either way I think it’s a logical assumption to assume that Calypso was a demonstration of base computer memory + sphere data + time = sentience, which is what Control is counting on.

Is Star Trek: Discovery going to lose Discovery when this season ends? (Are we finally going to get a ship that isn't turd-ugly??)

While I wouldn’t be averse to having a show where the hero ship is destroyed and they get the Discovery-A I think it’s too soon in the series for that.... Otherwise, WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT, HEATHEN! She’s a beautiful ship.

I am so hoping she doesn't die. They've kind of been telegraphing that Stamets might leave this season, and while I really hope that doesn't happen, I'd be happy with her as his replacement in Season 3.

I’m not sure. I hope that both of them are still around. I certainly don’t want to lose Stamets. I suspect him and Culber will get it together though next week and they’ll both stick around. I reckon Reno will probably survive... but maybe will be a bit crazier.

I didn't think it was a torpedo, personally. I thought it was something much bigger, like one of the bazillion little shuttle/fighter/support craft that we saw zipping around as the cliffhanger loomed. Or maybe like the future enhanced probe we saw a few episodes back. In any case, I really had the impression that it was some object that wasn't a torpedo. Just my take, though.

In the flash forward that Burnham sees, Detmer does specify that it was a torpedo. Can’t remember if she specifies Photon. I’m rewatching it shortly with the other half so i’ll be able to confirm. If she doesn’t say photon then potentially it is a similar casing to the world kille torpedos we see in spock’s vision.

[P-90_177]

Confirmed. They definitely say it was a photon torpedo. Though it was Owo that says it, not Detmer. That’s my bad.

I get the feeling that the torpedo will the be the last thing that happens before they’re able to take Disco into the future... Maybe with it exploding and destroying the Enterprise entirely.

[DigiFluid]

Confirmed. They definitely say it was a photon torpedo.

Ah. Hm, that's very odd indeed then.

[BruTak]

*Is speechless*

Wow! What an absolute corker of an episode.

The Enterprise was gorgeous. This is the way it should always have looked, but they didn't have the tech or the budget in the 60s.

I'm told that the production were in close contact with James Cawley of the Star Trek ToS Set Tour experience for copies of the "jewel" buttons for the various bridge consoles.

[DigiFluid]

I'm told that the production were in close contact with James Cawley of the Star Trek ToS Set Tour experience for copies of the "jewel" buttons for the various bridge consoles.

Isn't that the guy who was Kirk in the New Voyages fan series?

[P-90_177]

*Is speechless*

Wow! What an absolute corker of an episode.

The Enterprise was gorgeous. This is the way it should always have looked, but they didn't have the tech or the budget in the 60s.

I'm told that the production were in close contact with James Cawley of the Star Trek ToS Set Tour experience for copies of the "jewel" buttons for the various bridge consoles.

That makes sense. Their set is pretty much exact down to every bolt to how the original one was.

Isn't that the guy who was Kirk in the New Voyages fan series?

That’s him. Not as good a Kirk as Vic Mignogna in The Continues web series though... I swear he plays Kirk better than Shatner.

[BruTak]

Isn't that the guy who was Kirk in the New Voyages fan series?

That's him, yeah.