Through the Valley of Shadows (212)

[GateWorld]

STAR TREK: DISCOVERY - SEASON TWO
THROUGH THE VALLEY OF SHADOWS
EPISODE NUMBER - 212

Burnham and Spock investigate a Section 31 vessel that may have been infiltrated by Control, only to find a single surviving member of its crew. Pike must confront his own future when he visits the monastery on the Klingon planet Boreth.

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[DigiFluid]

Oh Pike...my heartstrings

[P-90_177]

Yeah that was tough to watch. But it was so Pike to just get up and do his duty anyway. I can’t help but feel if that was Kirk he would have still taken the crystal but would have been all “there’s no such thing as a no win scenario” and swaggered off all self righteous like. Whereas Pike fully understands that what he saw is unavoidable... I like that. Seriously I think he is now my second favourite captain. Also I loved how the uniform he wears in that flash forward is basically the same uniform that Pike is wearing when he dies in Into Darkness. Or at least certainly the shoulder rank is very similar.

I found it interesting that Burnham was questioning what use the red signals were throughout this episode, because the fact that Saru let her go on her mission in the first place confirms to me the notion that his new more aggressive mentality is paramount to the success of the mission at this point. At the end of the episode it seems a fight is coming. I have no doubt he will be integral to that.

I rolled my eyes at the idea of Burnham just happening to run into one of her old shipmates at first. I thought the show had done another “amazing coincidence” again like I was complaining about a couple of times with the last few episodes, but I was pleasantly surprised to find out it was a trap. The nanobot swarm at the end of the fight with Gant is a bit... questionable. But I keep reminding myself that these nanobots are still pretty big. Like they are on a macro scale that we can see so they are likely not all that complex beyond taking orders from Control.

Saying Time Crystal so much in this episode kinda made it lose its meaning but I have been thinking about the amount of tech that they probably were contained in over the course of Star Trek history... it’s quite a lot when I started to think on it. Also I found it a fun little call back to Voyager’s finale Endgame in which Admiral Janeway gets her time machine from a Klingon scientist.

[Platschu]

Great episode again. The whole season is nicely built that the main story still goes on and every episode connects to each other. So much emotion in this one! I love the scenes between Tyler and Burnham, Tyler and L'Rell and then both of them with Pike. It was really touching. I also liked their honesty about their son, so at least they were not misleading Pike or Michael.

Talking about Pike... He is the Man. It is always good to see that such extraordinary men exist who are not cowards and they accept their own fate to save someone else. You know this show was blamed to break the classic "masculine" roles then they make such a character decision. Well done. Sadly his storyline makes this full circle.

The only weak point of this episode was the Klingon cave / church. Why did they used a real church as a background? The gothic style celing was a really inappropriate choice. So if they could make a really awesome CGI bridge (and not to mention Klingon building design in the first season), then why have they made such a mistake?

The AI story is also good and really scarry. Star Trek Terminators.

And we still don't know where the events are aheading, but this whole show makes movie quality episodes. Well done, I can just repeat myself.

[P-90_177]

Great episode again. The whole season is nicely built that the main story still goes on and every episode connects to each other. So much emotion in this one! I love the scenes between Tyler and Burnham, Tyler and L'Rell and then both of them with Pike. It was really touching. I also liked their honesty about their son, so at least they were not misleading Pike or Michael.

Talking about Pike... He is the Man. It is always good to see that such extraordinary men exist who are not cowards and they accept their own fate to save someone else. You know this show was blamed to break the classic "masculine" roles then they make such a character decision. Well done. Sadly his storyline makes this full circle.

The only weak point of this episode was the Klingon cave / church. Why did they used a real church as a background? The gothic style celing was a really inappropriate choice. So if they could make a really awesome CGI bridge (and not to mention Klingon building design in the first season), then why have they made such a mistake?

The AI story is also good and really scarry. Star Trek Terminators.

And we still don't know where the events are aheading, but this whole show makes movie quality episodes. Well done, I can just repeat myself.

Yeah I thought that too about the monestary. By all rights it should have looked more like the archetecture of the Sarcophagus ship. Though I get they must have done it for cost effectiveness. Plus the klingon sets must have been taken down to make room for the Section 31 ship set... But they did such a great job with the environments for Qo’Nos so I don’t see why they couldn’t have done that again. Unless they filmed the Qo’Nos scenes before they completely took down the klingon set pieces.

I also realised that there is not a single moment with Tilly in this episode which really sucks. It’s like they kind of forgot about her after the Jahsepp stuff. Which is fine, I guess given that there’s so much still to cover with Burnham, Pike, Spock, Stamets, Culber and so on. But it was like the conversation that Reno had with both Culber and Stamets I was thinking that it would have usually been Tilly who would try to get them together again. And as awesome as Reno’s talk with Culber was (that was a great scene) I think it undercuts what Stamets said to Tilly at the beginning of the season about her being a great captain some day because she does everything out of love. It makes me hope that maybe the one upside to Anson Mount leaving is that we will return to a focus on the rest of the cast, since so much of the first season was about just Burnham and Tyler and while the first half of this season was full of Disco crew moments it has been very Pike and Burnham centric since the Talos episode.

[BruTak]

Oh, my word, but that was a corker of an episode.

Pike's glimpse of his own future - heartbreaking.
We know what's going to happen to him at some point in the next eight or nine years, but for him to see it?

I've always thought that the events that led to Pike's crippling/disfigurement was something that had happened only a short time before the events of "The Menagerie".

Other standouts for me were the scene in the mess hall with Owo, Detmer and co bantering away with each other. It makes the characters more rounded, more human if you like, you can relate to them better.

It reminded me of working for Amazon. I'd be working with the same bunch of guys - there was myself, Stevie, Davie, Hughie, and big Alec - we went on our breaks at the same time, we sat together in the canteen, and we'd be taking the wossname out of each other and having a laugh and a joke about things.

Plus of course this episode saw the return of Jet Reno. A character so laid back, she has difficulty seeing over her belt buckle.

[DigiFluid]

Other standouts for me were the scene in the mess hall with Owo, Detmer and co bantering away with each other. It makes the characters more rounded, more human if you like, you can relate to them better.

It reminded me of working for Amazon. I'd be working with the same bunch of guys - there was myself, Stevie, Davie, Hughie, and big Alec - we went on our breaks at the same time, we sat together in the canteen, and we'd be taking the wossname out of each other and having a laugh and a joke about things.

Oh I loooooved that scene! It's so nice to see them socializing like that, laughing, taking the piss out of each other. It just felt so organic and natural.

[Platschu]

I also loved that scene in the cantine.

I am not sure what to think about Pike's future. You know they have just told us that the future is not written in stone, we can change the current events now in the last episode when Spock has sit down to play with his sister. Then it seems a bit odd that they have introduced the opposite, where the destiny and fate of Pike is definately written in stone (in chrystal ) and it can not be avoided. So one of these philosophical ways must be wrong or both of them will be self-fulfilling.

[Chaka-Z0]

Couple thoughts on that episode, had missed the original air date (DVR acting funny again).

1- About you guys comments on Pike: I don't think it's a strenght of character or anything like that. The man is religious and in some ways realizing that his future is predetermined and that everybody plays a small part in a bigger plan comes as a confirmation of his beliefs, which might be a sort of satisfaction for him. He simply accepted his fate, as his beliefs tells him to.

2- I thought L'rell & Tyler's baby was supposed to be half-Klingon, but he looked to me like a pure Klingon, perhaps my mistake?

3- Klingons have been experimenting with Time Travel? Or did I mis-hear that?

4- Agreed on the Church setup, was odd a bit.

5- I was quite satisfied with the replicator-style Control, mb they took that idea from SG but again I wouldn't be surprised if that's the otehr way around.

[DigiFluid]

2- I thought L'rell & Tyler's baby was supposed to be half-Klingon, but he looked to me like a pure Klingon, perhaps my mistake?

He's the child of L'Rell and Voq...fullblooded Klingon

3- Klingons have been experimenting with Time Travel? Or did I mis-hear that?

They had been....it was mentioned a few episodes back, in the conversation when Leland was 'confessing' to Michael about her parents' true role in working for S31. This episode was just following up on that.

4- Agreed on the Church setup, was odd a bit.

No so much? The only settlement on the entire planet is a monastery, so a church vibe fits pretty well.

5- I was quite satisfied with the replicator-style Control, mb they took that idea from SG but again I wouldn't be surprised if that's the otehr way around.

Eh, it's a common enough trope. I honestly don't know who to credit with it at this point.

[DigiFluid]

I also loved that scene in the cantine.

I am not sure what to think about Pike's future. You know they have just told us that the future is not written in stone, we can change the current events now in the last episode when Spock has sit down to play with his sister. Then it seems a bit odd that they have introduced the opposite, where the destiny and fate of Pike is definately written in stone (in chrystal ) and it can not be avoided. So one of these philosophical ways must be wrong or both of them will be self-fulfilling.

That's interesting...I hadn't really considered how the two are a bit conflicting in interpretation. Good thought!

I guess as viewers though, we have the benefit of knowing that it all turns out okay in the end, so in a way the timeline kind of is set in stone. And we still know what happens to Pike from TOS, so...sadface.

[P-90_177]

I also loved that scene in the cantine.

I am not sure what to think about Pike's future. You know they have just told us that the future is not written in stone, we can change the current events now in the last episode when Spock has sit down to play with his sister. Then it seems a bit odd that they have introduced the opposite, where the destiny and fate of Pike is definately written in stone (in chrystal ) and it can not be avoided. So one of these philosophical ways must be wrong or both of them will be self-fulfilling.

I didn’t really get that from what Spock was saying. To me Spock was merely pointing out that they had no concrete proof that time was set in stone or not but that was no excuse not to try to change it either way.
Plus it seemed from what Pike was told that his destiny could be changed until he took the crystal, which to me is a solid indicator that they are implying again that everything in season 2 is part of a fixed time loop and thus by choosing in that moment to make an action that could complete that loop Pike would be put on course towards his final fate without another chance to stop it due to him not getting further insights into the future from that point on.

He's the child of L'Rell and Voq...fullblooded Klingon


They had been....it was mentioned a few episodes back, in the conversation when Leland was 'confessing' to Michael about her parents' true role in working for S31. This episode was just following up on that.


No so much? The only settlement on the entire planet is a monastery, so a church vibe fits pretty well.


Eh, it's a common enough trope. I honestly don't know who to credit with it at this point.

Yep the child is full Klingon as he was conceived before Voq became Tyler. And honestly even then i’m Not convinced Tyler wouldn’t still produce full Klingon children... depends how far his metamorphosis goes really.

Certainly it was stated that the Empire was experimenting with time travel. But it is worth noting that the monks of Boreth are stated to be apart from the Empire and independent from the High Council. The monks don’t use time travel. They merely protect the crystals. It seems likely that empire either convinced the monks to give them one at some point or they got one from elsewhere.

It wasn’t so much that the monestary looked like a church it was more that it had a clear Earth vibe than Klingon. After all we have seen inside what is effectively a Klingon temple before on the sarcophagus ship which is what it was designed to be. It would have been nice if it more followed that aesthetic. But I can see why they couldn’t do that for budget reasons.

[Chaka-Z0]

Thanks for the clarifications on the child everybody. I can also accept that given the uniqueness and age of this temple, a Church makes sense. Talk about nitpicking lol.

Plus it seemed from what Pike was told that his destiny could be changed until he took the crystal, which to me is a solid indicator that they are implying again that everything in season 2 is part of a fixed time loop and thus by choosing in that moment to make an action that could complete that loop Pike would be put on course towards his final fate without another chance to stop it due to him not getting further insights into the future from that point on

Well the fact Burnham's Mother said she's been watching over Burnham for a long time, seen her die God knows how many time during her loops, means that it's a loop that failed to be broken. Groundhog day basically. That'd explain the detached reaction when they first spoke face to face.

But I'm thinking maybe this is the final loop given the last events, Mom is out of the equation for now.