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  1. #1
    Second Lieutenant Guest750's Avatar
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    Default Magic in Stargate

    So I've been pondering how magic could be integrated into the Stargate setting, and I think I've come up with something.
    We already know that beings can access powers reminiscent of the Ascended, and we already know the Ascended gain power from worship.

    Now "worship" can be a bit vague, so let's tweak it slightly to belief.

    Now you've those that can use powers with their minds being considered wizards/hok'tor's/whatever. Across the galaxy magic and superstition is widely believed in (thank's Goa'uld for keeping everything primitive!).

    So it's possible that there could be magic users a la Harry Potter, who normally would only have minor powers, but because they consider themselves magical, they're also drawing power from everyone else who believes in magic.

    Thoughts?
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Charles
    "And the 'replicator' has just entered Sir Killalot's corner and Killalot is...urm...wait a minute... Sir Killalot has just been eaten by the 'replicator' and now there's two of them..."

  2. #2
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic in Stargate

    I think....Stargate has been explicit ever since the first movie that there's no such thing as magic, just technology that appears to be magic to primitives. So trying to introduce it into the Stargate universe would betray one of the bedrock philosophies upon which the entire fictional universe is built.
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

  3. #3
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic in Stargate

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    I think....Stargate has been explicit ever since the first movie that there's no such thing as magic, just technology that appears to be magic to primitives. So trying to introduce it into the Stargate universe would betray one of the bedrock philosophies upon which the entire fictional universe is built.
    Indeed. I think at best you'd have to present it like the Rivers of London book series (if you haven't read them I highly recommend them. Especially to you Digi. I think you'd dig them) where magic is presented as something ethereal but as the main characters work out they do still follow physical laws like the conservation of energy and such. So for that reason when a person uses "magic" they are literally eating up their own body with it.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  4. #4
    Second Lieutenant Guest750's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic in Stargate

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    I think....Stargate has been explicit ever since the first movie that there's no such thing as magic, just technology that appears to be magic to primitives. So trying to introduce it into the Stargate universe would betray one of the bedrock philosophies upon which the entire fictional universe is built.
    My point was that Stargate's also made it explicit there are magic-like abilities, and the ability to draw power from belief. I don't see why combining the two to explain things that would otherwise look like magic betrays anything?
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Charles
    "And the 'replicator' has just entered Sir Killalot's corner and Killalot is...urm...wait a minute... Sir Killalot has just been eaten by the 'replicator' and now there's two of them..."

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Magic in Stargate

    Not sure about actual "Magic" in Stargate but we have races and individuals with what could be interpreted as magical powers. The NOX for example had the ability to control their surroundings, nature and bring back the dead which some would see as magic.

    My personal belief is that it is very plausible that somewhere out there could be a third group of Ancients who traveled to the Milky Way with the other Alterans but after some time began to have conflicting beliefs in what was right, perhaps believing in the beliefs of both Alterans and of the Ori and met somewhere in the middle. This group of Ancients broke away from the Alterans to follow their new formed beliefs, settled on a world somewhere and began acting out those beliefs.

    This third group could have shun ascension and remained flesh and blood "humans" but somehow found a way to access the abilities of an ascended being and the powers that come with them. Because they're still human and very much alive the ascended Ancients couldn't interfere or stop them as that would be breaking their own rules so they've been left to their own devices.

    Now that the Ori are dead and the ancients are powerless to interfere they can leave their hidden world and venture out in to the galaxy, popping up on various worlds and have the inhabitants believe their powers are actually "Magic".

  6. #6
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic in Stargate

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    I think....Stargate has been explicit ever since the first movie that there's no such thing as magic, just technology that appears to be magic to primitives. So trying to introduce it into the Stargate universe would betray one of the bedrock philosophies upon which the entire fictional universe is built.
    While this is true, there's also stuff like telekinesis, ascension and whatever the hell the Nox did, the Smoke aliens did, etc.

    So true magic may not exist, but there are many things that are basically like magic.

  7. #7
    Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic in Stargate

    If I were to write a story involving "magic" in Stargate, I would couch it more in the sense of Psionics. Every supernatural thing in SG involves mental energy far more than structured words like spells.
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
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  8. #8
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic in Stargate

    The "magic" that currently exists in Stargate is simply the real-world definition of it, rather than the "supernatural" form of magic that exists in fantasy stories. It's either an illusion, highly advanced technology, or highly evolved life. And frankly, it should stay that way. Stargate is a science fiction franchise, not fantasy or science fantasy. It's not Star Wars, or Lord of the Rings.

    Nothing in Stargate is supernatural. It's all perfectly natural, just beyond our level of understanding, just like most of the technology itself. Telekinesis, ascended powers, Ori will-sucking devotion, the Nox, and the Omeyocan; that's not magic. It's either technology or evolution that's beyond our understanding.

    All examples given are "magic" in the sense of Clarke's Third Law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". That's the whole basis for the Stargate mythology, how the Goa'uld, the Asgard, the Ancients, and the Ori became revered as gods. If the franchise suddenly start including fantasy magic, that mythology will collapse because the whole foundation that Stargate was built on no longer works.

  9. #9
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic in Stargate

    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  10. #10
    Second Lieutenant Guest750's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic in Stargate

    Quote Originally Posted by NickEast View Post
    Nothing in Stargate is supernatural.
    Except for everything relating to ascension, where your spirit sheds it's corporeal form.
    Because that's totally not supernatural.
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Charles
    "And the 'replicator' has just entered Sir Killalot's corner and Killalot is...urm...wait a minute... Sir Killalot has just been eaten by the 'replicator' and now there's two of them..."

  11. #11
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic in Stargate

    Quote Originally Posted by Guest750 View Post
    Except for everything relating to ascension, where your spirit sheds it's corporeal form.
    Because that's totally not supernatural.
    It's not supernatural in the Stargate universe, where it's perfectly natural (but rare). The "supernatural" is something that is "outside" nature, but as has been seen throughout the franchise, ascension is a state of evolution. And evolution is a part of nature. Ascension also has nothing to do with "spirit". It's a person's consciousness that evolves to the point that it sheds its physical appearance and ascends to a higher plane of existence. Not magic, but evolution.

    That "ascension" is pure nonsense to us in the real world does not change the fact that it's a perfectly natural thing in the Stargate universe.

  12. #12
    Second Lieutenant Guest750's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic in Stargate

    Quote Originally Posted by NickEast View Post
    It's not supernatural in the Stargate universe, where it's perfectly natural (but rare). The "supernatural" is something that is "outside" nature, but as has been seen throughout the franchise, ascension is a state of evolution. And evolution is a part of nature. Ascension also has nothing to do with "spirit". It's a person's consciousness that evolves to the point that it sheds its physical appearance and ascends to a higher plane of existence. Not magic, but evolution.

    That "ascension" is pure nonsense to us in the real world does not change the fact that it's a perfectly natural thing in the Stargate universe.
    No. Just no.
    You don't get to claim that one thing isn't supernatural merely because it's already been inserted with a sci-fi veneer, and then say something else equally supernatural wouldn't work because it's supernatural.
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Charles
    "And the 'replicator' has just entered Sir Killalot's corner and Killalot is...urm...wait a minute... Sir Killalot has just been eaten by the 'replicator' and now there's two of them..."

  13. #13
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic in Stargate

    Quote Originally Posted by Guest750 View Post
    No. Just no.
    You don't get to claim that one thing isn't supernatural merely because it's already been inserted with a sci-fi veneer, and then say something else equally supernatural wouldn't work because it's supernatural.
    Eh?

  14. #14
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic in Stargate

    Quote Originally Posted by NickEast View Post
    Eh?
    Magic is a thing in the Harry Potter universe. That doesn't mean that it's not supernatural, or well, magic.

    Same with Stargate: it already has a bunch of supernatural elements. Ascension is one of them. Telekinesis another. You can't say "it's not supernatural cause it's in the show". It's supernatural still.

  15. #15
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic in Stargate

    Now you're just putting words in my mouth. I never said "because it's in the show". It has nothing to do with the show itself. In the Stargate universe, all of those things are perfectly natural and rationally explained by science. Ascension and telekinesis are part of evolution, there is no mysterious "supernatural" force tied to it.

    In Harry Potter and Star Wars, magic/the Force cannot be rationally explained by science. It's a supernatural force that has no basis in nature. The only thing that can be explained by science is that HP magic is passed down through genetics, and Force sensitivity is determined by midichlorians. But what that magic is or what the Force is cannot be explained at all.

    Stargate already has magic. It's mysterious, we think it's supernatural, until the scientists figure out a perfectly rational explanation for what it really is. It's like Scooby Doo. Everyone thinks the monsters are real, until the characters literally unmask them and discover it's just an ordinary person in disguise.

  16. #16
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic in Stargate

    If the show says its scientifically explainable, and ascension is the next step in human evolution, then it isn't supernatural, it is natural. If the show also says a rock is edible, it is. This is a fictional world, you need to accept its rules as is.

    Not once have we seen anything related to magic, perhaps a couple Jaffas that thought their God were wizards, but that's just ignorance. There's nothing to argue here.

    Maybe you guys need to look up the definition of supernatural. Nick is right.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  17. #17
    Second Lieutenant Guest750's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic in Stargate

    Quote Originally Posted by NickEast View Post
    Now you're just putting words in my mouth. I never said "because it's in the show". It has nothing to do with the show itself. In the Stargate universe, all of those things are perfectly natural and rationally explained by science. Ascension and telekinesis are part of evolution, there is no mysterious "supernatural" force tied to it.

    In Harry Potter and Star Wars, magic/the Force cannot be rationally explained by science. It's a supernatural force that has no basis in nature. The only thing that can be explained by science is that HP magic is passed down through genetics, and Force sensitivity is determined by midichlorians. But what that magic is or what the Force is cannot be explained at all.

    Stargate already has magic. It's mysterious, we think it's supernatural, until the scientists figure out a perfectly rational explanation for what it really is. It's like Scooby Doo. Everyone thinks the monsters are real, until the characters literally unmask them and discover it's just an ordinary person in disguise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    If the show says its scientifically explainable, and ascension is the next step in human evolution, then it isn't supernatural, it is natural. If the show also says a rock is edible, it is. This is a fictional world, you need to accept its rules as is.

    Not once have we seen anything related to magic, perhaps a couple Jaffas that thought their God were wizards, but that's just ignorance. There's nothing to argue here.

    Maybe you guys need to look up the definition of supernatural. Nick is right.
    Both of you are missing the point. It doesn't matter how it's justified in show, it's distinctly supernatural outside of it.
    So you can't argue that an element can't be introduced because it's supernatural outside of the show, because that's already happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Charles
    "And the 'replicator' has just entered Sir Killalot's corner and Killalot is...urm...wait a minute... Sir Killalot has just been eaten by the 'replicator' and now there's two of them..."

  18. #18
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic in Stargate

    So, uhm, what's your point then? Stargate already has magic, it's just science we can't understand. It doesn't matter that it's supernatural "outside of it", we're not talking about the real world here, we're talking about magic in the Stargate universe, right? Or, no?

    In any case, it doesn't matter anyway. MGM does whatever it wants to do. If they want to turn it into Star Wars, so be it. And it seems everyone has a different "opinion" on what science fiction, fantasy and "magic" actually mean.
    Last edited by NickEast; March 22nd, 2019 at 01:06 PM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Magic in Stargate

    This was a fun read, but Nick is right. Within the show's universe there is no magic displayed on screen. Also, a few examples here of "scifi magic" like "Star Wars" are quite arguable... midichlorians and all that.

  20. #20
    Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: Magic in Stargate

    Quote Originally Posted by Guest750 View Post
    Both of you are missing the point. It doesn't matter how it's justified in show, it's distinctly supernatural outside of it.
    So you can't argue that an element can't be introduced because it's supernatural outside of the show, because that's already happened.
    ALL that matters is that it is justified.
    Is Spock a wizard?
    He can read minds and connect with them.
    Is he using magic?

    Is Spock Jesus?
    He came back from the dead.
    Is he using Religious powers?

    No, it's acceptable within the framework of the universe of star trek as being natural, as is ascension in stargate.
    You play by the rules of the universe you have created, not the external rules of our own universe, Chaka and Nick are ABSOLUTELY correct.
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
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    The truth isn't the truth

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