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  1. #1
    Staff Sergeant SeaShephard's Avatar
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    Default ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    Sooo the episode Epiphany... The ancients inhabiting the time dilation field working on ascension.... All of them ascended at the end (rather cheesy, face down their manifested fears kill the big monster instantly ascend) and THEN.... gave the stern warning that Mckay was not to try and harvest the ZPM powering the place so that others may try to ascended.

    Here is my question... who else in the galaxy was going to come TRY?!?!?! These people were all descendants of an earlier group that knew of the place and entered with the INTENT of accession. Not to many groups of ancients left hanging around... OTHERWISE the damn place was a trap for anyone who didn't read ancient. AND its pretty much a waste of a perfectly good ZPM.

    Am I off here?

    S.S.

  2. #2
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    Stargate syndrome: Any powerful tech is yanked away at the first occasion.
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  3. #3
    Staff Sergeant SeaShephard's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Stargate syndrome: Any powerful tech is yanked away at the first occasion.
    I guess I am identifying with the Expedition members desperate situation needing all the power they could get their hands on.

    S.S.

  4. #4
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    We have never got the answer why the Ancients have built libraries about their own knowledge. For who? Are they waiting someone? Asgard? Nox? Or an unknown race? It could be interesting to investigate this storyline as well.

    On the other hand. We have got the complete knowledge of the Asgard which could have affected season 4 and 5. So why could they not make ZPM type of energy resources? I doubt that the Asgard hasn't got energy problems, so all what they have to do is digging into the database on the Odussey.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

  5. #5
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    We have never got the answer why the Ancients have built libraries about their own knowledge. For who? Are they waiting someone? Asgard? Nox? Or an unknown race? It could be interesting to investigate this storyline as well.
    Or a cheat of sorts for a descended Ancient? It would quickly allow one of them to get back up to speed if the others did their mind wipe thing, so it might be that they were all made by Merlin (who had a modified version of the same device in his lair) or a contemporary. Same could be true of the transport obelisks and the personal cloaks from "Babylon," which suspiciously came with instructions on how to build more. That's atypical of the Ancients at large, but I could see Merlin doing that.

    In any case, I wholeheartedly agree that there's a mystery here that would have made for some interesting stories.

  6. #6
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    Yeah, I also would like to use those transport obelisk in the next SG spinoff. That is the reason I was thinking on such new stargate system models...

    Little fan fiction / brainstorming summary:

    I had a little vision about an Asgard related spinoff, where we would find out more secrets about them and their allies and enemies. The beaming technology could be developed as the rematerilaztion in the wormhole caused some serious DNA damage to the Asgard. That was an unexpected sideaffect of the gate travels, so the Asgard could worn strong exoskeletons to guard their biological body. They would also use their drones what we could briefly seen in the Stargate : Worlds. The Vanirs would return from the Pegasus galaxy to finish off the Ragnarok event, while an Earth based team would also travel to the Othala galaxy following by some clues in the Asgard database as it looks like they have visited the Destiny a long time ago... That would explain why the exoskeleton / scafander items were on the board. Maybe we would find out that the Asgard couldn't stop the ship, but they have hold it back for centuries as it was locked up in a time bubble. And we would also learn that they started the conflict with the Nakai race...

    Anywway we would learn that not only exoskeletons, but new type of gateships or even bigger buildings (later a complete planet) could be "beamed" through the stargate, so essentially it would be used as a "stargate drive". While "wormhole drive" was used by Atlantis, this type of technology could be only used with stargates. The main story could travel a base, which would has a stargate in one of the hangar, then basically it would rebuild itself around stargates. But our enemies would also need this technology, because it could help to start a mass invasion in any gate system, Imagine Ha'tak ships as they would materliaze around floating spacegates... This way we could show something new to the audience, while it could also true for the canon. I know this stargate drive sounds a bit like "spore drive" from Star Trek : Discovery, but it would strengthen the use of stargates. Or this technology could introduced reversed as our enermies would start to beam in more ships to the Milky Way, so Earth must come up with a rescue plan how to stop them. It would always be funny to see new stargate network and since some of them could be upgraded or ruled by hostile forces, maybe they could cause some surprise in other galaxies too.

    But this is just the beginning of the conflict. If you are interested, just read my Milky Way in 2020 thread in the fan fiction section...
    Last edited by Platschu; February 11th, 2019 at 10:37 AM.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

  7. #7
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    Or a cheat of sorts for a descended Ancient?
    I like that theory a lot. It does seem odd that this gate address only had the one little room and the hidden device within it.
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  8. #8
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    I think the implication in the series is pretty obvious that all of the libraries of knowledge and other stuff the Ancients left around were for future humans to use since they are the descendants of the Ancients and were meant to follow in their footsteps.

    As for the planet in the op. We do have an example of another planet that was solely meant for others to go to for the purposes of ascension. Kheb. Granted, that was Oma assisting people to ascend which she wasn't supposed to do, but the principal is the same.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  9. #9
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    I think the implication in the series is pretty obvious that all of the libraries of knowledge and other stuff the Ancients left around were for future humans to use since they are the descendants of the Ancients and were meant to follow in their footsteps.
    One interesting thing about the devices is that it's never been resolved whether they only active for those with the ATA gene. Aside from Merlin's modified version, we've only seen one of them work on Jack. In the first instance, they thought that the reason Teal'c couldn't use it was because of his symbiote, but this was before the idea of ATA gene locked technology was known and before it was established that the Ancients and the Goa'uld didn't overlap (for the most part).

  10. #10
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    One interesting thing about the devices is that it's never been resolved whether they only active for those with the ATA gene. Aside from Merlin's modified version, we've only seen one of them work on Jack. In the first instance, they thought that the reason Teal'c couldn't use it was because of his symbiote, but this was before the idea of ATA gene locked technology was known and before it was established that the Ancients and the Goa'uld didn't overlap (for the most part).
    Indeed. It could be either. Though the assumption is that it does require the ATA gene. I mean the Ancients would have wanted to make sure there was a human evolved enough to actually handle the knowledge in the library and the ATA gene was an indication of being further along the evolutionary track. Though they probably didn't think it through as much as they should since we also gotta assume the recipient wasn't meant to die from it.

  11. #11
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    A human with a strong ATA gene is further along on the evolutionary track because they have an Ancient ancestor. Humans don't develop the ATA gene as they evolve.

  12. #12
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    How would you explain the Asgard tapping into the repository then? They created their own gene therapy or ''hacked'' their way in? Their morphology sure is much different than humans, even at the beginning of their times it was said they were similar yet not humans.
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  13. #13
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    Since they were part of their Alliance, maybe the Ancients trusted them completly that they won't share / sell out their tech to younger races.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

  14. #14
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    Since they were part of their Alliance, maybe the Ancients trusted them completly that they won't share / sell out their tech to younger races.
    From the 5th race transcript...

    Spoiler:
    ASGARD #2
    You looked into the archive that stores all the Ancients' knowledge.
    O'NEILL
    Apparently.
    ASGARD #2
    It was not meant for you.

    O'NEILL
    What? This was all an accident?
    ASGARD #1
    Human physiology has not advanced to the point where your brain could handle that technology.
    O'NEILL
    Oh. So where am I?
    ASGARD #1
    This is the Asgard planet, Othala, in the galaxy of Ida.
    O'NEILL
    Why did I come here?
    ASGARD #2
    The Ancients moved on from our region of space long ago, but your sub-conscious mind used their knowledge to find us here, where you could get help.

    ASGARD #1
    Very impressive.
    O'NEILL
    Well, you know…
    ASGARD #1
    We did not think your brains had advanced even that far


    So it does seem like this repository wasn't meant for the ''second evolution'' of their kind. Most likely predates this by a long time, perhaps even before the Ancients envisioned having a second evolution of their kind. That leaves us with...

    1- It was for the Ancients themselves
    2- It was to share their knowledge in the Alliance of the 5 races

    (new information for me): The Asgards states that the Ancients used to live in their galaxy prior to their arrival in the Milky Way... hmm... interesting.

    Considering the second portion that I bolded (O'Neill knew the Asgards could help him), I'd say that logically means it was intended for others, such as the Asgards. Although it does not exclude the possibility of a heritage for younger races.
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  15. #15
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    Thanks for the transcript. I am guesing there were other advanced races who could been considered as a future 5th race (like the Oannes (Omoroca and Nem) or the Reole or the Gadmeer), but then Goa'uld wiped them out. Maybe we will know more about such things in a future SG spinoff or movie.

    The system is very simple anyway. Be advanced enough or die. Lovely Ancient programming. And these people ruled Atlantis...
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

  16. #16
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    (new information for me): The Asgards states that the Ancients used to live in their galaxy prior to their arrival in the Milky Way... hmm... interesting.
    It depends on what he meant by "region." The Asgard may, for example, consider the Milky Way part of their region since it, along with several other galaxies, fall under their sphere of influence.

    Same applies to the Asgard saying it wasn't meant for "you." From context it appears like the Asgard are not using it to refer to the human race, but specifically to Jack because the next line goes on to say that humans have the potential to hold all that knowledge in their heads.

    As to your question about the Asgard's history with the repository, Thor said the Asgard extracted parts of it, which implies they hacked what they could from it:

    THOR
    You cannot even begin to comprehend the extent of what was unfolding in O'Neill's mind. Our scientists, long ago, extracted parts of the Ancient Library of Knowledge, and learned much from it. But we have been studying it for as long as I can remember and we have barely scratched the surface.


    -New Order, Part II

  17. #17
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    Nice find. I was not aware this information. Well done!

    I believe the Asgards could be still used in a next spinoff:

    - they could use them as hologram while they are studying their library
    - some Vanirs could fly to the Milky Way and start to act like "Asgard" on the Protected Planets
    - other reality could visit us where the Asgard are still alive
    - time travel to avoid their "Ragnarok"
    - we could find out that they have dialed a 9 chevron address to Valhalla in "Unending", so their planet has exploded not because of the mass suicide, rather they dialed a higher plane to move there (outcome is similar to Ascension)
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

  18. #18
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    It depends on what he meant by "region." The Asgard may, for example, consider the Milky Way part of their region since it, along with several other galaxies, fall under their sphere of influence.
    Good catch, re-read the whole thing and I think you're right.
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  19. #19
    Staff Sergeant SeaShephard's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    With the Atlantis expedition opening the ancient data base, would that information not have been shared with the Asgard since the Asgard were then openly serving on Earth Ships in Pegasus?

    S.S.

  20. #20
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: ZPM hogs or.... Who the hell else was going to try and ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaShephard View Post
    With the Atlantis expedition opening the ancient data base, would that information not have been shared with the Asgard since the Asgard were then openly serving on Earth Ships in Pegasus?

    S.S.
    I don't think it mattered really, well not at that moment for them. They were losing the war against the replicators. And I would venture a guess that the Asgards knew already much more than the Tau'ri about the matter.

    That'd be like a 3rd grader schooling an University teacher
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

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