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  1. #1
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    All the years and series have confused me. In the original 1994 film, who were the gods who ruled Abydos if they were goa'uld? Same goes for Origins? Who were these people? And of course did the 1994 film presume only two stargates, one on Earth and one on Abydos?

  2. #2
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    All yes. In the 1994 film, Ra ruled Abydos, but at the time the film was made the concept of the Goa'uld didn't exist yet. When SG-1 was made, the writers created the Goa'uld and assigned Ra as the highest leader. Thus the series established Ra as a Goa'uld. Origins is a prequel to (officially) the series, despite certain elements connecting it to the film.

    Originally in the context of the film, there were only two gates (though Emmerich and Devlin planned to have more gates on Earth, as depicted in the comics and books). In the context of the series, it was believed that only two gates existed, as Earth's gate presumably only connected to Abydos and vice versa. But of course we all know how that turned out.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    I am still not clear - then WHO were the "gods" of Abydos and on Origins if there were no goa'ulds? Just some kind of ordinary unknown powerful aliens? And yet Ra seemed to be a super-alien and all powerful yet not a goa'uld....

  4. #4
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    I don't think you understood. The "gods" of Abydos and in Origins are Goa'ulds. What I meant was that when the original movie was made in 1994, the concept of the Goa'uld didn't exist yet. It was created for the TV series when SG-1 was being written. The series then established that Ra was a Goa'uld. Origins merely established that a Goa'uld underlord under Ra ruled Abydos on his stead, until she was executed.

  5. #5
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    Also Origins added the weird off-scene part that states Ra had an Asgard for a host at first.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  6. #6
    Colonel Elite Anubis Guard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    Where was that, Chaka? In one of the text-based accompaniments? IIRC it was also stated in the RPG that came out and I think it was a fan theory for quite a while.

    Otherwise, as far as the film itself was concerned, only Ra was an alien. Anubis and Horus were humans. The Bill McCay books go into it further and the rest of the other gods were also humans. Ra was the only alien.

    Stargate Destiny - Coming Again Soon

  7. #7
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elite Anubis Guard View Post
    Where was that, Chaka? In one of the text-based accompaniments? IIRC it was also stated in the RPG that came out and I think it was a fan theory for quite a while.

    Otherwise, as far as the film itself was concerned, only Ra was an alien. Anubis and Horus were humans. The Bill McCay books go into it further and the rest of the other gods were also humans. Ra was the only alien.
    Correct. Forgot to mention that Ra's personal guards ("Anubis" and "Horus") were human. The series also supposedly didn't retcon that, since Jack stated in "Children of the Gods" that "there were no creatures like that on Abydos" when talking about the dead Jaffa.

  8. #8
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elite Anubis Guard View Post
    Where was that, Chaka? In one of the text-based accompaniments? IIRC it was also stated in the RPG that came out and I think it was a fan theory for quite a while.

    Otherwise, as far as the film itself was concerned, only Ra was an alien. Anubis and Horus were humans. The Bill McCay books go into it further and the rest of the other gods were also humans. Ra was the only alien.
    It was in the text-based accompaniments, mission reports I think. I'll try to dig it out for you today!
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  9. #9
    Colonel Elite Anubis Guard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    Thanks.

    Stargate Destiny - Coming Again Soon

  10. #10
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    Okay so in a nutshell, if I recall, in the original movie we see Ra in a host which looks strikingly similar to an Asgard, take over the body of a young man. Since we all know movie vs series had some differences, most people brushed this off as a fan-theory or non-canon material.

    But, if we go with Origins mission files, they kind of confirm that he did. They also mention that Ra didn't trust Jaffas and had mostly humans as his personal guard. In the screenshots of Ra in SG:O, we can also clearly see that he seems much smaller than the others surrounding him, especially if you take his huge mask off he must be as tall as an Asgard, tops.

    Now from the mission files...

    Mission files - 10 (Credit: SG:C website)
    Aset’s world was crumbling all around her, the temple walls serving as the perfect metaphor for her state of mind. Ra had returned sooner than Aset ever could have imagined. She was convinced that the advances of those little gray beings would have kept him tied up for many more years, so why had he returned now? A million thoughts rushed through Aset’s mind; if she was to die today, two things must continue to live after her: the child, and the plot for Ra’s downfall.

    So here they talk about Ra being at war with the Asgards

    Before long, Ra was upon her, his presence practically sucking the air from her lungs. Aset had spent so long wrapped up in her plans to end him, she had forgotten how Ra managed to somehow command submission as he entered a room, even in such a diminutive host.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  11. #11
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Mission files - 10 (Credit: SG:C website)
    Aset’s world was crumbling all around her, the temple walls serving as the perfect metaphor for her state of mind. Ra had returned sooner than Aset ever could have imagined. She was convinced that the advances of those little gray beings would have kept him tied up for many more years, so why had he returned now? A million thoughts rushed through Aset’s mind; if she was to die today, two things must continue to live after her: the child, and the plot for Ra’s downfall.

    So here they talk about Ra being at war with the Asgards

    Before long, Ra was upon her, his presence practically sucking the air from her lungs. Aset had spent so long wrapped up in her plans to end him, she had forgotten how Ra managed to somehow command submission as he entered a room, even in such a diminutive host.
    I think you're conflating two separate points with a simple misread.

    The first paragraph, as you correctly point out, alludes to Ra as the Supreme System Lord, fighting with the Asgard. That's not especially unusual, and ties back into stuff we saw or were told in SG-1 (particularly, Season 3's "Fair Game.")

    But the second paragraph just refers to a small-statured host body. Jaye Davidson, the actor who played Ra in the original 1994 film, is only 5'3" tall, and (as we saw from him parading around shirtless for most of the movie) is a scrawny little dude besides.



    BTW - Thanks for finding and retyping that. I always found it a pain in the butt tracking down those Mission Reports, so it's like discovering something new all over again whenever I can read one
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  12. #12
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    I think you're conflating two separate points with a simple misread.

    The first paragraph, as you correctly point out, alludes to Ra as the Supreme System Lord, fighting with the Asgard. That's not especially unusual, and ties back into stuff we saw or were told in SG-1 (particularly, Season 3's "Fair Game.")

    But the second paragraph just refers to a small-statured host body. Jaye Davidson, the actor who played Ra in the original 1994 film, is only 5'3" tall, and (as we saw from him parading around shirtless for most of the movie) is a scrawny little dude besides.



    BTW - Thanks for finding and retyping that. I always found it a pain in the butt tracking down those Mission Reports, so it's like discovering something new all over again whenever I can read one
    Oh man it was a PAIN to find that. SG:C website is the most non-user friendly platform I've ever had the displeasure to browse.

    Digi, do you remember in the original movie, the scene of the Asgard dying? The body couldn't handle the symbiote and you just see this Asgard slowly deflating and dying. I'm having a really hard time to find the scene, I only found this (start watching around 1min.20 secs of the video)

    Remember Digi, before Ra went to Earth they did not have Humans available as host. They only had Unas. It is also mentioned in the movie that Ra's race is becoming ''extinct''. As to the excerpts from Stargate Origins, I'm really sure I've read some other text at some point that mentioned this in a more definite form, but I'm giving up it's too hard to look for stuff on there.

    One could argue that in 1994 there was no such thing as Goa'uld and Asgard, but the series still pretty much copied the Grey Alien we saw and slapped the Asgard name on it.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  13. #13
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    Yes indeed, I know exactly what you’re talking about. I think it’s really just as simple as...well, simplicity. The “greys” alien trope is immediately identifiable to most of the moviegoing public, so it was an easy way for the filmmakers to depict Ra as an alien species before he took control of a human body.

    It’s pretty clear that the show just threw out the similarity entirely — just as they threw out the weirdly non-corporeal possession of a human body shown in the movie, in favour of it being a parasitic snake.

    I think the show kind of tried to pay the ‘grey alien’ a little bit of lip service when they did “Thor’s Hammer” by making the James Earl Jones Unas kind of look like a big greyscale-toned alien. And then when they decided to do the Asgard the next year, they either looked back and said “eh, good enough,” or else simply didn’t care, since they’d already moved on from the movie so much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Oh man it was a PAIN to find that. SG:C website is the most non-user friendly platform I've ever had the displeasure to browse.
    Amen to that. Terrible, awful site/platform.
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  14. #14
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    The only part that interested me in that whole theory is that taking over an Asgard host, even briefly, would mean that Ra assimilated some of their knowledge, helping him rise to power as Supreme System Lord.

    But, this is fan theory, and as you said was more or less dismissed in the series. I still think it'd be cool to see an Asgard with glowy eyes.

    Also in the movie, it is said that Ra is a powerful alien which has the power to ''take over hosts'' to survive. That became the Goa'ulds as we know them.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  15. #15
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    But, if we go with Origins mission files, they kind of confirm that he did. They also mention that Ra didn't trust Jaffas and had mostly humans as his personal guard. In the screenshots of Ra in SG:O, we can also clearly see that he seems much smaller than the others surrounding him, especially if you take his huge mask off he must be as tall as an Asgard, tops.
    This sounds weird. Did the mission files actually mention that he didn't trust Jaffa? Because that could be a continuity error, since the Jaffa were created as the Goa'uld didn't trust humans anymore, following the rebellion on Earth in 2,995 BC. What is known is that Ra took capable humans as his personal guard (at least, before Origins established that the hand-device can also brainwash humans, which is a different plot hole).

    And in Origins, in 1939, Ra already had a human host.

    I can't know for sure, since I don't have access to the mission files.

  16. #16
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    Quote Originally Posted by nivao View Post
    This sounds weird. Did the mission files actually mention that he didn't trust Jaffa? Because that could be a continuity error, since the Jaffa were created as the Goa'uld didn't trust humans anymore, following the rebellion on Earth in 2,995 BC. What is known is that Ra took capable humans as his personal guard (at least, before Origins established that the hand-device can also brainwash humans, which is a different plot hole).

    And in Origins, in 1939, Ra already had a human host.

    I can't know for sure, since I don't have access to the mission files.
    Also from Mission Files #10

    As he caught up with his Jaffa, Ra looked upon the rebels with interest. Though it was necessary, losing Aset was a blow that Ra could ill afford. The Supreme System Lord had found allies in short supply of late, and he had been forced to devise new ways to create loyal assets. Aset’s Kara’kesh modifications had helped him bend the minds of numerous beings, both friend and foe. Recently, Ra had been testing these techniques with the creation of a new form of honor guard, and these two specimens looked to be the perfect candidates to bolster their ranks. Regular Jaffa had proven too troublesome for a Goa’uld of Ra’s standing, but with a few refinements, his new Jackal and Horus guards could help him stamp his authority on the galaxy once more.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  17. #17
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    I am afraid everything has been combined in this thread. Essentially let me ask it this way: According to the canon of the 1994 film and Origins, where did the gods come from, where did they acquire all their power and ability to control humans if they were humans themselves?
    Second, in the TV canon, how could little snakes with such tiny heads contain so much knowledge and power?
    Third, does the 1994 canon absolutely exclude the possibility that the gods were either superhuman aliens or humans possessed by some enormous alien power?? Leaving aside the mystery of how little snake brains could be so intelligent and powerful...

  18. #18
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    The movie does not delve into the origins of Ra's underlings. There has simply been some things written about them after the fact, but they're just there as far as the movie itself is concerned.

    In the TV show, meanwhile, the Goa'uld are capable of sapience because the writers said so. You can take issue with the logic if you want, but you could do that with a lot of things. There's nothing really to be said here. I'm sure someone out there might try to present some sort of hypothetical argument (e.g. they have extra brain matter in their tails), but generally most will expect you to either accept the premise or not and leave it at that.

  19. #19
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    Have you (Davey, not you Xaeden) actually, you know, watched the series?
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  20. #20
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    Have you (Davey, not you Xaeden) actually, you know, watched the series?
    Ehhm. It is a bit harsh, but I am glad you said it as I had the same opinion a few weeks ago. At least he is enthusiastic. He has not even watched Atlantis, so I had to convince him to start it, so that is the reason he opened so many new threads.

    I believe Ra's host could be an Asgard as it was slightly hinted or they have reached Earth with Unas hosts. We don't know how many other races were used by the Goa'uld, so even new ones could be introduced in a future SG spinoff to extend the existing lore. Just let's move on the Goa'uld theme as they had their time to shine and I believe we need some new races and adventures.
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