Who were the god aliens in the 1994 film and Origins?

[Davey]

All the years and series have confused me. In the original 1994 film, who were the gods who ruled Abydos if they were goa'uld? Same goes for Origins? Who were these people? And of course did the 1994 film presume only two stargates, one on Earth and one on Abydos?

[NickEast]

All yes. In the 1994 film, Ra ruled Abydos, but at the time the film was made the concept of the Goa'uld didn't exist yet. When SG-1 was made, the writers created the Goa'uld and assigned Ra as the highest leader. Thus the series established Ra as a Goa'uld. Origins is a prequel to (officially) the series, despite certain elements connecting it to the film.

Originally in the context of the film, there were only two gates (though Emmerich and Devlin planned to have more gates on Earth, as depicted in the comics and books). In the context of the series, it was believed that only two gates existed, as Earth's gate presumably only connected to Abydos and vice versa. But of course we all know how that turned out.

[Davey]

I am still not clear - then WHO were the "gods" of Abydos and on Origins if there were no goa'ulds? Just some kind of ordinary unknown powerful aliens? And yet Ra seemed to be a super-alien and all powerful yet not a goa'uld....

[NickEast]

I don't think you understood. The "gods" of Abydos and in Origins are Goa'ulds. What I meant was that when the original movie was made in 1994, the concept of the Goa'uld didn't exist yet. It was created for the TV series when SG-1 was being written. The series then established that Ra was a Goa'uld. Origins merely established that a Goa'uld underlord under Ra ruled Abydos on his stead, until she was executed.

[Chaka-Z0]

Also Origins added the weird off-scene part that states Ra had an Asgard for a host at first.

[Elite Anubis Guard]

Where was that, Chaka? In one of the text-based accompaniments? IIRC it was also stated in the RPG that came out and I think it was a fan theory for quite a while.

Otherwise, as far as the film itself was concerned, only Ra was an alien. Anubis and Horus were humans. The Bill McCay books go into it further and the rest of the other gods were also humans. Ra was the only alien.

[NickEast]

Where was that, Chaka? In one of the text-based accompaniments? IIRC it was also stated in the RPG that came out and I think it was a fan theory for quite a while.

Otherwise, as far as the film itself was concerned, only Ra was an alien. Anubis and Horus were humans. The Bill McCay books go into it further and the rest of the other gods were also humans. Ra was the only alien.

Correct. Forgot to mention that Ra's personal guards ("Anubis" and "Horus") were human. The series also supposedly didn't retcon that, since Jack stated in "Children of the Gods" that "there were no creatures like that on Abydos" when talking about the dead Jaffa.

[Chaka-Z0]

Where was that, Chaka? In one of the text-based accompaniments? IIRC it was also stated in the RPG that came out and I think it was a fan theory for quite a while.

Otherwise, as far as the film itself was concerned, only Ra was an alien. Anubis and Horus were humans. The Bill McCay books go into it further and the rest of the other gods were also humans. Ra was the only alien.

It was in the text-based accompaniments, mission reports I think. I'll try to dig it out for you today!

[Elite Anubis Guard]

Thanks.

[Chaka-Z0]

Okay so in a nutshell, if I recall, in the original movie we see Ra in a host which looks strikingly similar to an Asgard, take over the body of a young man. Since we all know movie vs series had some differences, most people brushed this off as a fan-theory or non-canon material.

But, if we go with Origins mission files, they kind of confirm that he did. They also mention that Ra didn't trust Jaffas and had mostly humans as his personal guard. In the screenshots of Ra in SG:O, we can also clearly see that he seems much smaller than the others surrounding him, especially if you take his huge mask off he must be as tall as an Asgard, tops.

Now from the mission files...

Mission files - 10 (Credit: SG:C website)
Aset’s world was crumbling all around her, the temple walls serving as the perfect metaphor for her state of mind. Ra had returned sooner than Aset ever could have imagined. She was convinced that the advances of those little gray beings would have kept him tied up for many more years, so why had he returned now? A million thoughts rushed through Aset’s mind; if she was to die today, two things must continue to live after her: the child, and the plot for Ra’s downfall.

So here they talk about Ra being at war with the Asgards

Before long, Ra was upon her, his presence practically sucking the air from her lungs. Aset had spent so long wrapped up in her plans to end him, she had forgotten how Ra managed to somehow command submission as he entered a room, even in such a diminutive host.

[DigiFluid]

Mission files - 10 (Credit: SG:C website)
Aset’s world was crumbling all around her, the temple walls serving as the perfect metaphor for her state of mind. Ra had returned sooner than Aset ever could have imagined. She was convinced that the advances of those little gray beings would have kept him tied up for many more years, so why had he returned now? A million thoughts rushed through Aset’s mind; if she was to die today, two things must continue to live after her: the child, and the plot for Ra’s downfall.

So here they talk about Ra being at war with the Asgards

Before long, Ra was upon her, his presence practically sucking the air from her lungs. Aset had spent so long wrapped up in her plans to end him, she had forgotten how Ra managed to somehow command submission as he entered a room, even in such a diminutive host.

I think you're conflating two separate points with a simple misread.

The first paragraph, as you correctly point out, alludes to Ra as the Supreme System Lord, fighting with the Asgard. That's not especially unusual, and ties back into stuff we saw or were told in SG-1 (particularly, Season 3's "Fair Game.")

But the second paragraph just refers to a small-statured host body. Jaye Davidson, the actor who played Ra in the original 1994 film, is only 5'3" tall, and (as we saw from him parading around shirtless for most of the movie) is a scrawny little dude besides.



BTW - Thanks for finding and retyping that. I always found it a pain in the butt tracking down those Mission Reports, so it's like discovering something new all over again whenever I can read one

[Chaka-Z0]

I think you're conflating two separate points with a simple misread.

The first paragraph, as you correctly point out, alludes to Ra as the Supreme System Lord, fighting with the Asgard. That's not especially unusual, and ties back into stuff we saw or were told in SG-1 (particularly, Season 3's "Fair Game.")

But the second paragraph just refers to a small-statured host body. Jaye Davidson, the actor who played Ra in the original 1994 film, is only 5'3" tall, and (as we saw from him parading around shirtless for most of the movie) is a scrawny little dude besides.



BTW - Thanks for finding and retyping that. I always found it a pain in the butt tracking down those Mission Reports, so it's like discovering something new all over again whenever I can read one

Oh man it was a PAIN to find that. SG:C website is the most non-user friendly platform I've ever had the displeasure to browse.

Digi, do you remember in the original movie, the scene of the Asgard dying? The body couldn't handle the symbiote and you just see this Asgard slowly deflating and dying. I'm having a really hard time to find the scene, I only found this (start watching around 1min.20 secs of the video)

Remember Digi, before Ra went to Earth they did not have Humans available as host. They only had Unas. It is also mentioned in the movie that Ra's race is becoming ''extinct''. As to the excerpts from Stargate Origins, I'm really sure I've read some other text at some point that mentioned this in a more definite form, but I'm giving up it's too hard to look for stuff on there.

One could argue that in 1994 there was no such thing as Goa'uld and Asgard, but the series still pretty much copied the Grey Alien we saw and slapped the Asgard name on it.

[DigiFluid]

Yes indeed, I know exactly what you’re talking about. I think it’s really just as simple as...well, simplicity. The “greys” alien trope is immediately identifiable to most of the moviegoing public, so it was an easy way for the filmmakers to depict Ra as an alien species before he took control of a human body.

It’s pretty clear that the show just threw out the similarity entirely — just as they threw out the weirdly non-corporeal possession of a human body shown in the movie, in favour of it being a parasitic snake.

I think the show kind of tried to pay the ‘grey alien’ a little bit of lip service when they did “Thor’s Hammer” by making the James Earl Jones Unas kind of look like a big greyscale-toned alien. And then when they decided to do the Asgard the next year, they either looked back and said “eh, good enough,” or else simply didn’t care, since they’d already moved on from the movie so much.

Oh man it was a PAIN to find that. SG:C website is the most non-user friendly platform I've ever had the displeasure to browse.

Amen to that. Terrible, awful site/platform.

[Chaka-Z0]

The only part that interested me in that whole theory is that taking over an Asgard host, even briefly, would mean that Ra assimilated some of their knowledge, helping him rise to power as Supreme System Lord.

But, this is fan theory, and as you said was more or less dismissed in the series. I still think it'd be cool to see an Asgard with glowy eyes.

Also in the movie, it is said that Ra is a powerful alien which has the power to ''take over hosts'' to survive. That became the Goa'ulds as we know them.

[NickEast]

But, if we go with Origins mission files, they kind of confirm that he did. They also mention that Ra didn't trust Jaffas and had mostly humans as his personal guard. In the screenshots of Ra in SG:O, we can also clearly see that he seems much smaller than the others surrounding him, especially if you take his huge mask off he must be as tall as an Asgard, tops.

This sounds weird. Did the mission files actually mention that he didn't trust Jaffa? Because that could be a continuity error, since the Jaffa were created as the Goa'uld didn't trust humans anymore, following the rebellion on Earth in 2,995 BC. What is known is that Ra took capable humans as his personal guard (at least, before Origins established that the hand-device can also brainwash humans, which is a different plot hole).

And in Origins, in 1939, Ra already had a human host.

I can't know for sure, since I don't have access to the mission files.