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  1. #41
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    It's been a year or two since I've watched it so I could be dead wrong, but that was my recollection as well.
    I’m pretty sure they did, but that could have been an assumption on their part. Not that they’re canon but the comics seem to take the notion of it being an assumption given that they find Ancients in stasis aboard ship in the continuation series.
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  2. #42
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by NickEast View Post
    In any case, I thought it was mentioned in SGU that the Ancients never boarded Destiny?
    Again like Rush quote that the ship is hundreds of thousands of years old, it's an estimate, speculation. Dug a bit for clues to support the theory that the Ancients have boarded Destiny before...

    AIR Pt 2
    JOHANSEN: Everyone's heart rates are elevated; people are reporting headaches. It has to be.

    SCOTT: What?

    BRODY: The used-up residue of whatever magic compound the Ancients used to scrub CO2 from the air.
    That means someone put it there, either at launch or during the trip. I'd say if it was put there at launch, it would've long faded away since the ship is million(s) of years old.

    As for the part Nick mentions, from Air as well:

    RUSH: Of course I do - but I'm also trying to learn as much as I can, as quickly as I can. That is, in addition to running nine separate searches of the database in the hope of solving our life support issues.

    (He swivels back to the console.)

    WALLACE (a little guiltily): Right. Found anything?

    RUSH: Destiny.

    (Nearby, Brody and Park look at him in confusion.)

    WALLACE: As in ours?

    RUSH: The name of the ship, translated from Ancient.

    (Eli stands and walks over to the console.)

    RUSH: I've also discovered that they were never here.

    WALLACE: I thought this was an Ancient ship.

    RUSH: It is, but they sent it out unmanned, planning to use the Gate to get here when it was far enough out into the universe. But they probably learned to ascend before that time.
    So again, Rush being Rush, categorically assumes the Ancients never boarded Destiny, and that conclusion was made after he browsed the minor console in the secondary control room. I don't believe this can be taken as actual fact, just like his estimation of Destiny's age is dead wrong.

    We've speculated in an other thread in some lengths about this, I believe with Xaeden. In a nutshell, my theory is that Destiny was a secret project and that if anybody actually boarded the ship during its course, he would most likely have wiped the data from the computers. Mainly because the 9th chevron mention in the Ancient database is so vague, why not put a little caption ''If you gate here you're on a ship on the other side of the freaking Universe''. There was no mention of the ship nor of its mission anywhere. The best way to hide something is in plain sight wouldn't you agree?

    Edit: We also know for a fact that Ascended-form Ancients cannot travel at ''warp speed'' since we've seen them use the gate on many occasions. They can't just ''Float in space'' wherever they want, so being ascended is irrelevant to them boarding the Destiny, unless they used the gate to do so, which would also leave no trace.
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  3. #43
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Again like Rush quote that the ship is hundreds of thousands of years old, it's an estimate, speculation. Dug a bit for clues to support the theory that the Ancients have boarded Destiny before...

    AIR Pt 2


    That means someone put it there, either at launch or during the trip. I'd say if it was put there at launch, it would've long faded away since the ship is million(s) of years old.

    As for the part Nick mentions, from Air as well:



    So again, Rush being Rush, categorically assumes the Ancients never boarded Destiny, and that conclusion was made after he browsed the minor console in the secondary control room. I don't believe this can be taken as actual fact, just like his estimation of Destiny's age is dead wrong.

    We've speculated in an other thread in some lengths about this, I believe with Xaeden. In a nutshell, my theory is that Destiny was a secret project and that if anybody actually boarded the ship during its course, he would most likely have wiped the data from the computers. Mainly because the 9th chevron mention in the Ancient database is so vague, why not put a little caption ''If you gate here you're on a ship on the other side of the freaking Universe''. There was no mention of the ship nor of its mission anywhere. The best way to hide something is in plain sight wouldn't you agree?
    That... Actually makes a lot of sense...
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  4. #44
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Interesting theory about Destiny being a "secret project". Now that Chaka mentioned it, I do find it awkward that only Atlantis vaguely mentions the nine-chevron address without any other information. This actually somewhat fits with my "fanon" (even if it won't matter).

    But okay, yeah, Rush's vagueness is not proof. However, the "hundreds of thousands of years" remark was stated to be a writer's error, not a deliberate faulty statement.

  5. #45
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by NickEast View Post
    Interesting theory about Destiny being a "secret project". Now that Chaka mentioned it, I do find it awkward that only Atlantis vaguely mentions the nine-chevron address without any other information. This actually somewhat fits with my "fanon" (even if it won't matter).

    But okay, yeah, Rush's vagueness is not proof. However, the "hundreds of thousands of years" remark was stated to be a writer's error, not a deliberate faulty statement.
    Not even that, it was a deleted scene, so technically it's not even canon.
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  6. #46
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    I still believe that there must be other 9 chevron addresses or why would they have put a 9th chevron on every stargate? Maybe Rush and Eli's dialing method was wrong, because if such function is built in then there must be an easier way to dial those address or addresses. Maybe they should have put some kind of energy resource on the DHD or on the gate (similar what Teal'c used in Continuum).

    SG:U could be still continued direct or indirect ways... What if the Vanir Asgards have been there? What were the Nakai ("blueberrys") doing there? Has ever any ascended Ancient visited the place? The past of the Destiny was not really examined in the show. But anyway it doesn't matter at the moment.
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  7. #47
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    I still believe that there must be other 9 chevron addresses or why would they have put a 9th chevron on every stargate?
    Right? It doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. It's like if every phone ever made from Alexander Graham Bell till today included a button for pi, but only one phone ever built used that as a number. It just doesn't make sense.
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  8. #48
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Well keep in mind that the address to Destiny was unique. It was only the point of origin that had to be Earth’s (Which raises its own issues since all gates are supposed to have a unique point of origin)

    Now given that the 9th Chevron address is seemingly used to get to a ship in transit with no fixed address like a 7 or 8 chevron address, then there is a strong possibility that at one point the Ancients had other ships that had gates on them. This might make sense if we consider the idea that the Ancient’s early hyperdrives are far slower than the ones that they would later have. Given how long it seems to take Destiny to traverse just one galaxy it would seem to be slower than even Goa’uld Hyperdrives.

    Now at this point all of those ships would have their own unique 9 chevron address, which as a security precaution, would be a code as Eli described it and as an additional measure, had to be dialed with the Earth PoO. And at one point no doubt all those ships would have been in the Ancient database, except for that over time as their engines got faster and it was easier for Ancient ships to just go from one side of the galaxy to the other in a matter of days rather than weeks or months either the ships themselves were decommisioned or their stargates were removed and thus their gate addresses were removed from the database, because, hey, what’s the point of keeping those records if they don’t exist any more. Until you are lieft with just one ship which still had a gate on it. And because they never bothered to go to Destiny (or at least go back to Destiny, depending on what you reckon) they just never thought to remove that last address.

    In fact here’s a really interesting notion. Since we know all stargates automatically use their correlative update program to update the rest of the network on their position in space to compensate for stellar drift, all stargates that we have ever seen aboard a ship, like Apophis’ flagship or when Ba’al was stealing gates, or so on, will have automatically updated the network of a new 9th chevron address, until the point in which they are destroyed or returned to a planet. And that there was once some Ancient computer which is no longer active in the milky way that records and keeps track of all actions carried out by the correlative update and would have thus known abut those gates in motion.
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  9. #49
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    The 9-chevron address was not an address, but a combination code that pointed specifically to Destiny, regardless of where it would be. The point of origin is part of that combination. It is implied in "Air" that, at least as long as the DHD has Earth's symbol on it, which only happens when the PoO is one of the other constellations (Icarus used "Orion"), then you'd be able to dial the address.

    It is my theory, based on how the point of origin mechanic should work as explained throughout the shows, that they "hacked" the DHD using Icarus's dialing computer to accept Earth as a point of origin or something. And that they were lucky that Icarus used one of the constellations as the point of origin, so that Earth's symbol existed on the DHD. Had it not, then they would've been stuck. So, essentially, they let the DHD believe that it was on Earth in order to accept the 9-chevron combination.

  10. #50
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by NickEast View Post
    The 9-chevron address was not an address, but a combination code that pointed specifically to Destiny, regardless of where it would be. The point of origin is part of that combination. It is implied in "Air" that, at least as long as the DHD has Earth's symbol on it, which only happens when the PoO is one of the other constellations (Icarus used "Orion"), then you'd be able to dial the address.

    It is my theory, based on how the point of origin mechanic should work as explained throughout the shows, that they "hacked" the DHD using Icarus's dialing computer to accept Earth as a point of origin or something. And that they were lucky that Icarus used one of the constellations as the point of origin, so that Earth's symbol existed on the DHD. Had it not, then they would've been stuck. So, essentially, they let the DHD believe that it was on Earth in order to accept the 9-chevron combination.
    Yes it was a combination but my point is that the code could be dialed anywhere like any other Stargate. It’s just whereas you’d normally dial that gate’s point of origin you instead dialed Earth’s.

    I think you otherwise need to accept from that point on that the show retconned itself and that at least some gates share their symbol set.

    It’s worth noting that as we find out in Lost City, the gate symbols have corrisponding sounds to them in Ancient. That’s how the World’s names were derived by the Ancients at least at first. This could mean that the 9 Chevron addresses, if my theory about there being at one point many ships with transiting gates and therefore many 9 chevron addresses, also spell out the names of the ships in Ancient. Or if not their names the equivalent of what we’d call a ship’s registry number or code.
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  11. #51
    Colonel Elite Anubis Guard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    Well keep in mind that the address to Destiny was unique. It was only the point of origin that had to be Earth’s (Which raises its own issues since all gates are supposed to have a unique point of origin)
    Don't even get me started on that. The inconsistencies with the PoO being unique and the backwards CGI 'Gates are some of my biggest annoyances with the show. xD

    Stargate Destiny - Coming Again Soon

  12. #52
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    I am sure I have said a few times before. Why would the Ancients build such a network, where the planet exploedes as soon as somebody could dial Destiny. Something still must have been wrong as it is not logical that they sacrificed a planet every time they wanted to contact the ship to send supplies or new expedition members... This is one of the biggest plot hole of SG:U. Brad Wright can still fix these gate tech related questions. Just let us help him and we can extend the playground.
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  13. #53
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    I am sure I have said a few times before. Why would the Ancients build such a network, where the planet exploedes as soon as somebody could dial Destiny. Something still must have been wrong as it is not logical that they sacrificed a planet every time they wanted to contact the ship to send supplies or new expedition members... This is one of the biggest plot hole of SG:U. Brad Wright can still fix these gate tech related questions. Just let us help him and we can extend the playground.
    They didn't....the power requirement is as high as it is only because Destiny has had 50+ million years to fly further and further away. Presumably, the intent was to dial it up when it was still much closer, and so there would haven't been any need to use a planet's core as a power source.

    Also, the Ancients had way better power sources than we do, so Brad Wright & co. probably could've dreamed up some technobabble to explain away that they had a 'ZPM on steroids'
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  14. #54
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    I am sure I have said a few times before. Why would the Ancients build such a network, where the planet exploedes as soon as somebody could dial Destiny. Something still must have been wrong as it is not logical that they sacrificed a planet every time they wanted to contact the ship to send supplies or new expedition members... This is one of the biggest plot hole of SG:U. Brad Wright can still fix these gate tech related questions. Just let us help him and we can extend the playground.
    What about exploding tumors, weird entities sucking electricity out of the city, a city that they would've left in a deathtrap state (Drowning whoever comes aboard unless the time-travelling Ancient didn't change things), a device left wide open which destroys solar systems, etc. I could go on for days stating their carelessness. The Ancients left many dangerous things behind ready to blow up at any moment, isn't that basically the premise of the whole franchise more or less?

    Not sure why that surprises you P!
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  15. #55
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    They didn't....the power requirement is as high as it is only because Destiny has had 50+ million years to fly further and further away. Presumably, the intent was to dial it up when it was still much closer, and so there would haven't been any need to use a planet's core as a power source.

    Also, the Ancients had way better power sources than we do, so Brad Wright & co. probably could've dreamed up some technobabble to explain away that they had a 'ZPM on steroids'
    Perhaps Project Arcturus was an attempt to reach Destiny, at that point the ship would've been wayyy out there, wouldn't it? This has been argued on many occasions, but I've always been convinced that one ZPM wouldn't be enough. At that point I also believe the Ancients were knee deep into the wraith war and probably didn't have any ZPM to spare.

    But yea I don't want to go down the ''energy science and maths of Gateworld'' which I find absurd, to try and calculate fictional numbers using real-life mathematics.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Also as far as we are aware naquadria core planets did not exist in the Ancient's day. That's something the Goa'uld created, which then became a potential means for Earth to use to dial Destiny with in the absence of renewable Ancient power sources.

    ZPM power is likely perfectly capable of dialing the Destiny, Earth just doesn't have ZPM power to spare since they can't make more of them when they run out.

  17. #57
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    Also as far as we are aware naquadria core planets did not exist in the Ancient's day. That's something the Goa'uld created, which then became a potential means for Earth to use to dial Destiny with in the absence of renewable Ancient power sources.
    ^ I didn't think of that, but that's a good point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    ZPM power is likely perfectly capable of dialing the Destiny, Earth just doesn't have ZPM power to spare since they can't make more of them when they run out.
    I will split hairs a little bit here though - we don't actually know that ZPM power would have been sufficient. Maybe it would've been doable with one, maybe it would've taken a thousand of them wired together, we just don't know.
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  18. #58
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    I will split hairs a little bit here though - we don't actually know that ZPM power would have been sufficient. Maybe it would've been doable with one, maybe it would've taken a thousand of them wired together, we just don't know.
    You did not...

    This thread has 6 pages of discussions about this, and that must've been the 50th thread about this particular matter

    A small excerpt:
    Spoiler:

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Here we go again
    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    It's likely that a ZPM would be able to power the connection. I just don't see why the SGC would be willing to use up one of the most important strategic assets they have just for a science project with no obvious gains, or to rescue a few dozen people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    The whole premise of the show is that *we don't leave our people behind* so yes if they could I say they would.

    Likely to power the connection, yes I agree. But for how long?

    Lots of Gateworlders argued that ZPM > Naquadriah. That much is true, a ZPM is more powerful imo, although I cannot believe that the total quantity of Naquadriah contained in a whole planet would produce less energy than a half-full ZPM.

    Also I hardly doubt the writers would go with that ZPM dialing solution... let's see...

    New script for SGU:
    Season 1

    Col. Young: SGC this is Young, we are stuck on a derelict ship in the middle of nowhere millions of light years away.
    SGC: No worries, we got a ZPM we'll establish a connection and get you out of there.
    Col. Young: Thanks bro


    Walter: Chevron 9 locked.

    *SGU ends*
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  19. #59
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Yeah I don't really tune in for technical speculative ridiculousness.

    Guessing at character and plot stuff can be fun sometimes, because at least with that it's openly speculative and driven by reasoning and understanding of characters, motivations, past events, etc. With the technical speculation, it's just a lot of nonsensical 'well we saw X this one time, so there for Y and ONLY Y can be true for now, in all circumstances, and for all of time!'
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  20. #60
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    I will split hairs a little bit here though - we don't actually know that ZPM power would have been sufficient. Maybe it would've been doable with one, maybe it would've taken a thousand of them wired together, we just don't know.
    In any case, the point is that the Ancients would have had the ability to dial Destiny. This is true even without ZPMs, as a fully functional Destiny appears to be able to dial Earth and cannot right now only because its power supply caps at 40%. Hence the plan to use the combined reserves of both Destiny and the smaller seed ship to secure a connection. So had ZPMs never been invented they still would have had a viable and repeatable way to gate to Destiny today.

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