I'm not saying it's aliens, but...
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Did Ancients create non-human aliens?
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Why would the Ancient create other races? Maybe their stargate network influenced the evolution of some lifeforms, but no direct genetic changes were made. I wouldn't mind if the next SG spinoff could focus on environment, biological hazards, adaption and extension. They could tell us so many stories how life was created by the Dakara device, what went wrong, what was working in the past, who it has effected the galactic status quo, why are pine trees everywhere etc. Stargate is a unique plot telling device, but if we try to imagine it realistically on an evolutionary timeline, we have to admit, that it can lead to clash of evolution systems too soon as the gate connect such worlds, who would normally never ever meet until they haven't reached the space technological level. There were some stories what could happen if a technological upgrade was not followed by cultural development, when tech ended up in wrong hands. But I talked a lot about such things in the past here on the GW, if you have read my comments about future spinoffs.
https://forum.gateworld.net/threads/...1#post14639300"I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."
"Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."
"Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."
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Originally posted by DigiFluid View PostThat's not the case, at least not in canon. The only discussion of the original use of the Dakara device was Anubis (as the fat dude in the diner in "Threads") telling Daniel that it was originally created to create life after the plague; even labelling that as ironic since he was planning to use it to destroy all life.
It's a bit of an oversight, though; the one planet that you think is safe to seed humans on also happens to be the one planet where a plague infected Ancient is preserved on.
Originally posted by nivao View PostThe fact that Nerus achieved it, dioes not mean the Ancients didn't. If Earth was the only planet to be seeded, then why wasn't the device on Earth? It is implied that the device reorganizes matter, to destroy or create as it were. Anubis said "create life in the Milky Way galaxy", not "create life on Earth". And according to all sources regarding the plague, it would have wiped out life in the galaxy. So if there is no life, how can it evolve?
Of course, life could evolve naturally. But the plague spread everywhere where the Ancients went, according to their own accounts. It is implied that the Ancients used the device to destroy all life in order to destroy the plague and then reseeded the galaxy with new life.
2) What the Ancients intended for the device and what it was used for are not necessarily the same thing. The device appears to have been one of several projects that a particular group of plague infected Ancients worked on in an effort to preserve their species in their dying "breaths." For all we know they died before using the device on very many planets, but actually intended to make widespread use of it. So perhaps all they had time for was Earth or perhaps they seeded the building blocks of human life on several worlds and we just haven't encountered those other worlds yet (that could be because humans didn't make it on those worlds, so there are currently no living humans in the galaxy that haven't come from Earth). We also might have seen another world like that and just don't know it. That would, for example, be one way to explain the 11,000 year old human civilization form "Tin Man" without a retcon.
3) It's possible they thought it best to only use the device on a single planet. They wouldn't have been able to know for sure what the consequences were of doing otherwise as they only had their one planet evolution model to work with. Allowing humans to evolve a second time on multiple planets at once, while risky in the sense that something could happen to them before they developed an advanced civilization, could also easily mean you're dooming humans to interstellar war as these different planets wouldn't have had a shared experience to unify under.
Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View PostI really thought it was said at some point that the Ori created the plague. It's not confirmed, so I stand corrected on that point, yet to me they remain ''Ancient Most Wanted'' since we've seen them create similar, seemingly incurable, invisible illnesses, in late SG seasons.Last edited by Xaeden; 29 January 2019, 12:07 AM.
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Originally posted by Xaeden View PostWhile certainly suspicious, another possible explanation for the similarity could simply be that the Ori used their ascended abilities to learn what killed the Ancients and decided that it would be worthwhile to create a version of it for use against humans. So, yeah, we don't know for sure that they used the plague to kill the Ancients, but I will say that it would been a better reveal for future stories than the one I'm presenting now. This is a dead end, storywise. If it was revealed that they simply copied the plague in season 11, you have a rather anti-climatic few second reveal and then you move on. If, on the other hand, we were presented with evidence that the Ori infected the Ancients, that's a jumping off point to delve into both Ancient and Ori history. I can therefore more easily see that being the intention of the writers as it has greater storytelling potential, but writers do sometimes drop intended story threads with anti-climatic reveals for a variety of reasons.
How about this: a rogue Ancient converts to the Ori religion, in secrecy, and uses his advanced scientific knowledge to manufacture the plague. He could've worked undercover, an Ori sleeper agent of sort, using live Ancient test subjects. A little bit in the fashion of The Destroyer of Worlds (Linea? not sure name).
It might not be the best reveal as you say, yet I would think that anything else than Ori would be hard to swallow to me. And on a personal note, I found the whole Ori arc forced and I always had the impression that this late arc was more of a ''patch'' to extend the series further at popular demand. It was just too much Goa'uld 2.0 in my opinion.Spoiler:I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.
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Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View PostI really do like the theory that they used their ascended abilities to artificially evolve their tech, as I've argued countless times when someone said the Ori were not as advanced as the Ancients at the Exodus moment.
Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View PostHow about this: a rogue Ancient converts to the Ori religion, in secrecy, and uses his advanced scientific knowledge to manufacture the plague. He could've worked undercover, an Ori sleeper agent of sort, using live Ancient test subjects. A little bit in the fashion of The Destroyer of Worlds (Linea? not sure name).
What about a lineage? Something like the Sith (Star Wars) "Rule of Two"? I have no idea whether it would make a satisfying story, but it's an interesting thought.
Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View PostAnd on a personal note, I found the whole Ori arc forced and I always had the impression that this late arc was more of a ''patch'' to extend the series further at popular demand. It was just too much Goa'uld 2.0 in my opinion.
If I have one real beef with the Ori storyline, it's that the Arthurian angle was introduced as something completely new and something that they had never experienced before. Really? 20+ SG teams have been exploring the galaxy for eight years and there's not one mention of someone having encountered Ancient/Arthurian mythology out there in all that time? Rationally I understand that it was down to creativity -- they needed a new hook for a new era of the show -- but thought about in context of the whole series's storytelling, it's a little jarring to switch from one type of mythology to another so abruptly and without having laid any groundwork.
As a sidenote, I often wonder what it would've been like if they'd been allowed to relaunch the series as "Stargate Command" as originally intended. Maybe make a few more cast adjustments and make a new series out of it entirely."A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life
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Originally posted by DigiFluid View PostI like that, but I'm not sure the chronology quite works. We know that the SGU gates predate the Milky Way gates, so there's a time lapse of some length between gate version generations, and the Antarctic gate's age is estimated at 50 million years in "Frozen," while we know from "Rising" and various episodes of Atlantis that the city left this galaxy (due to the plague) somewhere between 3-5 million years ago. So it being one sleeper agent doesn't quite work, IMO.
Well just a short nap of 3-5 million years is... super mega sleeper agent? Hibernating agent? Stasis Agent? Maybe he pulled a Doyle Brunson (Poker reference, he's known to use the ''Mega Sleeper'' tactic). Okay it doesn't work
What about a lineage? Something like the Sith (Star Wars) "Rule of Two"? I have no idea whether it would make a satisfying story, but it's an interesting thought.
For my part, I really enjoyed the Ori storyline, and wish it had been allowed to spool out for longer. I wish the 'cold war' of the Prior invasion had gone on for longer than just one season/that the Crusader army story had been put off a bit longer (in a perfect world, where we have guaranteed as many seasons as we like).
I've never been able to take Browder and Claudia seriously, I just can't dig for any of those characters in a SG show and frankly they're not my favorites anywhere else on the small screen. I love humor, but not so much in sci-fi, I'd rather have tiny well-placed jokes than a constant humorous vibe. Every interactions with other NPC's seem like a comedy. Not to mention that Vala completely corrupted Daniel's character to the point where he wasn't recognizable anymore. I get the whole love hate relationship, trust me I've lived it myself. ...might just be internal Chaka talking here.Spoiler:I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.
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Originally posted by Chaka-Z0 View PostI mean after so many seasons, I am of the opinion that it was time for the franchise to renew itself. SG1 I think lasted too long, SGA needed 1-2 more seasons. SGU was just a heartbreak for me, my favorite all-time sci-fi show.
I've never been able to take Browder and Claudia seriously, I just can't dig for any of those characters in a SG show and frankly they're not my favorites anywhere else on the small screen. I love humor, but not so much in sci-fi, I'd rather have tiny well-placed jokes than a constant humorous vibe. Every interactions with other NPC's seem like a comedy. Not to mention that Vala completely corrupted Daniel's character to the point where he wasn't recognizable anymore. I get the whole love hate relationship, trust me I've lived it myself. ...might just be internal Chaka talking here."I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."
"Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."
"Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."
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I think I need a refresher. How could the Ancients guarantee that the Dakara device would destroy all humanity in the Milky Way? What about possible remnants that would survive the plague of the Ori? And how exactly did the Dakara device enable human populations in the Pegasus Galaxy? And how again was it that some earthlings acquired the original Ancient DNA to be able to activate the chair etc.? In any case, since there were non-humans who had advanced civilizations such as Salish, Retu, etc. etc. how did they acquire humanoid physical and/or intellectual characteristics without contact with the original human Ancients? Even the Asgard had one time been humanoid. Then there were others such as Reole, Nox, etc.?
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Originally posted by DigiFluid View PostIf I have one real beef with the Ori storyline, it's that the Arthurian angle was introduced as something completely new and something that they had never experienced before. Really? 20+ SG teams have been exploring the galaxy for eight years and there's not one mention of someone having encountered Ancient/Arthurian mythology out there in all that time? Rationally I understand that it was down to creativity -- they needed a new hook for a new era of the show -- but thought about in context of the whole series's storytelling, it's a little jarring to switch from one type of mythology to another so abruptly and without having laid any groundwork.
The planets that the obelisks cycled through were also cut off from the rest of the gate network, so it seems Merlin/Morgan took some number of gates from existing worlds and set them up on new worlds to keep them hidden.
Originally posted by Davey View PostI think I need a refresher. How could the Ancients guarantee that the Dakara device would destroy all humanity in the Milky Way? What about possible remnants that would survive the plague of the Ori?
And how exactly did the Dakara device enable human populations in the Pegasus Galaxy?
And how again was it that some earthlings acquired the original Ancient DNA to be able to activate the chair etc.?
In any case, since there were non-humans who had advanced civilizations such as Salish, Retu, etc. etc. how did they acquire humanoid physical and/or intellectual characteristics without contact with the original human Ancients? Even the Asgard had one time been humanoid. Then there were others such as Reole, Nox, etc.?
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The pine trees could be explained that gymnosperm plants were more important for the Ancient to change the athmosphere of hostile worlds. Just it would have been nice to hear some stories how they placed the first stargates, which worlds were included or left out, how the first domes looked like. The area around of a stargate is nothing in comparsion to the surface of a planet, so I am guessing they brought animals and plants from Earth. That is the reason I was brainstorming that the next Stargate could talk more about biology related subjects (evolution, adaption, climate change, protection of environment) while they could still write stories about it if one of the main characters would be a biology or geology expert. It could be a nice move from history to biology. Even the main bad guys could be some form of bioterrorist, who turned against the gate system users....
It would be still hard to explain why we could not see any other non-Earth based ecosystems. Some concept arts of Stargate : Worlds has shown some, so I know budget wise they could not afford such things in a tv show. We can also not expect that every week we will see an Avatar type of new worlds with new plants and animals. That is the reason it would have been nice to occasionally something else then pine trees. Have the Ancients merged the local plants? Or have they used just Earth based ones? Could we see such animals which became extinct on Earth? etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnosperm
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Underwater aliens... Well... There could be even different races with different motives. Or different folks of the same race. You know once like dark closed worlds under the ice, while others like the tropical sea planets, the third one which likes wondering to the mainlands, the fourth one maybe like the swamps with rotten leafs etc. There would be so much fun to introduce a proper water race. One of them could still activaley interfere other worlds (tsunamis, floods), while other would just simply freeze everyone. Or they could go for daily mission in "water suits" and that is how the heroes would contact them. Or even the weather changing devices could influence their culture etc. Or they could sit on giants sea horses like a classis Ariel type mermaid. I always wanted to see manta rays type aliens flying through the stargate without water into the SGC. If they could film them in a tank, maybe they could be added digitally easily. (By the way once I asked Joe Mallozzi why could they not make a scene with a camel is going through the gate, but he said it needs lots of authorization of using animals on the show. Probably the PETA / Green Peace would watch them nonstoply.)
Not to mention there are such real life sea animals which could be digitally scanned to have an "alien" on the show. Here are some examples that even our nature can create such races which looks like aliens:
Like these sea dragons:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_seadragon
https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1340...x800,070,f.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...eniolatus1.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...yllopteryx.jpg
Blue dragon:
https://steemit.com/animals/@rocking...ien-from-earth
https://hybridtechcar.com//wp-conten...original38.jpg
Not to mention these guys :
http://www.storytrender.com/12102/st...es-look-world/
http://www.clearlifestyles.com/wow-2...ike-pokemon/5/
https://hybridtechcar.com/sea-creatu...liens-planets/
Or if they could visit exotic alien worlds there are so many crystals, marples, mushrooms which could be inspiration to odd looking alien worlds. JM also said that it is not a lack of imagination that they can not find out new aliens with weird looking for the Stargate : Universe show... It is rather a budget question.
Have you ever heard from the Naica cave in Mexico?
http://www.luvthat.com/wp-content/up...hua_Mexico.jpg
Or the Wave in Arizona, USA?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wave,_Arizona
Or the Glowworm cave in New Zealand?
http://www.rumblerum.com/glowworm-cave-new-zealand/
Or Hang Son Doong cave in Vietnam?
http://www.atchuup.com/son-doong/
or the Dallol Vulcano in Ethiopia?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallol_(volcano)
https://steemit.com/photography/@car...rt-in-ethiopia
or the Danxia Mountains in Zhangye, China?
http://www.awakeningstate.com/nature...hangye-danxia/
So such places are the inspirations for me to imagine "wild" alien planets. Okay, they can never afford to shoot some scenes there (Naica would be too hot anyway), but maybe they could use them as digital backgrounds. You know I would be happy with a stargate on the savannah with some real / digital baobabs or acacia trees or dragon trees. There are such rare plants on Socotra as well which could be used as inspiration or digital background in the future. Just they should forget the pine trees!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adansonia_digitata
http://www.viralforest.com/alien-looking-place-earth/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracaena_cinnabari
http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-...ears-old-00866"I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."
"Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."
"Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."
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There have been a few references to both the Goa'uld and Ancients terraforming planets. Here's the Goa'uld one:
DANIEL
For a planet with a U.V. radiation as high as this one's supposed to have, the plant life seems to be doing very well.
CARTER
Apparently, Abydos was the exception, not the rule, as far as trees are concerned.
DANIEL
Well, that makes sense. I mean, in order for a planet to support human life, there must be some form of carbon-based vegetation, right?
[Carter nods.]
TEAL'C
It is no accident. Many Stargate worlds were terra-formed by the Goa'uld centuries ago.Last edited by Xaeden; 30 January 2019, 12:12 AM.
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So was it conceivable that ordinary homo sapiens as we are could emerge without any connection to the Ancients at all? Could it be that Ancients were only one portion of humans that emerged in one or another galaxy and that other humans existed simultaneously and independently of the Ancients?
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Originally posted by Davey View PostSo was it conceivable that ordinary homo sapiens as we are could emerge without any connection to the Ancients at all? Could it be that Ancients were only one portion of humans that emerged in one or another galaxy and that other humans existed simultaneously and independently of the Ancients?Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.
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