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  1. #21
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    I like that, but I'm not sure the chronology quite works. We know that the SGU gates predate the Milky Way gates, so there's a time lapse of some length between gate version generations, and the Antarctic gate's age is estimated at 50 million years in "Frozen," while we know from "Rising" and various episodes of Atlantis that the city left this galaxy (due to the plague) somewhere between 3-5 million years ago. So it being one sleeper agent doesn't quite work, IMO.

    Well just a short nap of 3-5 million years is... super mega sleeper agent? Hibernating agent? Stasis Agent? Maybe he pulled a Doyle Brunson (Poker reference, he's known to use the ''Mega Sleeper'' tactic). Okay it doesn't work

    What about a lineage? Something like the Sith (Star Wars) "Rule of Two"? I have no idea whether it would make a satisfying story, but it's an interesting thought.
    Ascended Ori that takes human form pherhaps? But yea I agree it's not really in the league of SG.

    For my part, I really enjoyed the Ori storyline, and wish it had been allowed to spool out for longer. I wish the 'cold war' of the Prior invasion had gone on for longer than just one season/that the Crusader army story had been put off a bit longer (in a perfect world, where we have guaranteed as many seasons as we like).
    I mean after so many seasons, I am of the opinion that it was time for the franchise to renew itself. SG1 I think lasted too long, SGA needed 1-2 more seasons. SGU was just a heartbreak for me, my favorite all-time sci-fi show.

    I've never been able to take Browder and Claudia seriously, I just can't dig for any of those characters in a SG show and frankly they're not my favorites anywhere else on the small screen. I love humor, but not so much in sci-fi, I'd rather have tiny well-placed jokes than a constant humorous vibe. Every interactions with other NPC's seem like a comedy. Not to mention that Vala completely corrupted Daniel's character to the point where he wasn't recognizable anymore. I get the whole love hate relationship, trust me I've lived it myself. ...might just be internal Chaka talking here.
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  2. #22
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    I mean after so many seasons, I am of the opinion that it was time for the franchise to renew itself. SG1 I think lasted too long, SGA needed 1-2 more seasons. SGU was just a heartbreak for me, my favorite all-time sci-fi show.

    I've never been able to take Browder and Claudia seriously, I just can't dig for any of those characters in a SG show and frankly they're not my favorites anywhere else on the small screen. I love humor, but not so much in sci-fi, I'd rather have tiny well-placed jokes than a constant humorous vibe. Every interactions with other NPC's seem like a comedy. Not to mention that Vala completely corrupted Daniel's character to the point where he wasn't recognizable anymore. I get the whole love hate relationship, trust me I've lived it myself. ...might just be internal Chaka talking here.
    They wanted to rename the show, so SG-1 season 9 and 10 should be considered as the season 1 and 2 of Stargate : Command. Just SyFy wanted to reach the longest running scifi cable show title, so they have kept the name of SG-1.
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    I think I need a refresher. How could the Ancients guarantee that the Dakara device would destroy all humanity in the Milky Way? What about possible remnants that would survive the plague of the Ori? And how exactly did the Dakara device enable human populations in the Pegasus Galaxy? And how again was it that some earthlings acquired the original Ancient DNA to be able to activate the chair etc.? In any case, since there were non-humans who had advanced civilizations such as Salish, Retu, etc. etc. how did they acquire humanoid physical and/or intellectual characteristics without contact with the original human Ancients? Even the Asgard had one time been humanoid. Then there were others such as Reole, Nox, etc.?

  4. #24
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Please re-read the thread, this has been discussed at length.
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  5. #25
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    If I have one real beef with the Ori storyline, it's that the Arthurian angle was introduced as something completely new and something that they had never experienced before. Really? 20+ SG teams have been exploring the galaxy for eight years and there's not one mention of someone having encountered Ancient/Arthurian mythology out there in all that time? Rationally I understand that it was down to creativity -- they needed a new hook for a new era of the show -- but thought about in context of the whole series's storytelling, it's a little jarring to switch from one type of mythology to another so abruptly and without having laid any groundwork.
    To be fair, there were, what, two planets with people related to Arthurian history? And I don't think either were addresses from the Ancient database, which is an effective explanation for why Sg-1 never encountered them before. The address to Camelot was found in Merlin's mantle. It wasn't said that it was a new address to them as far as I'm aware, but we do know the planet they began the quest for the Sangraal on was not on the Ancient Stargate list because they had to combine three known addresses to find it.

    The planets that the obelisks cycled through were also cut off from the rest of the gate network, so it seems Merlin/Morgan took some number of gates from existing worlds and set them up on new worlds to keep them hidden.

    Quote Originally Posted by Davey View Post
    I think I need a refresher. How could the Ancients guarantee that the Dakara device would destroy all humanity in the Milky Way? What about possible remnants that would survive the plague of the Ori?
    As Digifluid noted, this is something that was discussed in the thread.

    And how exactly did the Dakara device enable human populations in the Pegasus Galaxy?
    We have no idea if it did or not. It's possible that, after Atlantis established itself in Pegasus a group of Ancients gated to Dakara and used the device to seed human life in the Pegasus galaxy, but it's also possible that the Ancients simply "test tubed" humans and seeded them on planets in their current form, without triggering their evolution from the native animal population. The specifics have never been addressed in the show.

    And how again was it that some earthlings acquired the original Ancient DNA to be able to activate the chair etc.?
    10,000 years ago the Ancients evacuated the Pegasus gate via Atlantis and returned to Earth. They thought they would find the technology necessary to maintain their civilization. When they instead discovered that they would have to rebuild practically from scratch they abandoned that plan and broke up into three fractions. Some headed back through the Stargate (we don't know what happened to any of them save Janus who rebuilt his time traveling jumper and used it elsewhere in the Milky Way), some devoted their lives on Earth to working toward ascension, and some helped humans develop the building blocks of civilization. That third group interbred with humans, which is why the ATA gene exists in some percentage of Earth's (and presumably the larger Milky Way's) human population today.

    In any case, since there were non-humans who had advanced civilizations such as Salish, Retu, etc. etc. how did they acquire humanoid physical and/or intellectual characteristics without contact with the original human Ancients? Even the Asgard had one time been humanoid. Then there were others such as Reole, Nox, etc.?
    It's probably best to just look at the humanoid aliens for what they are: stand-ins for truly alien looking species. For budget reasons, people are sometimes put in make-up and said to be aliens because it's easier and less expensive than CGI-ing them. Writers can pull a Star Trek and try to create a canonical reason for this or they can ignore it and hope viewers suspend disbelief. Stargate avoids most of this by using humanoid aliens sparingly, preferring instead to create explanations for why actual humans exist on other planets. This is overall a very smart and effective workaround for the limitations of TV, but it starts to get convoluted when applied to the Ancients. Trying to similarly create explanations for the existence of every humanoid species (like the Nox) would be just make things worse.

  6. #26
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    The pine trees could be explained that gymnosperm plants were more important for the Ancient to change the athmosphere of hostile worlds. Just it would have been nice to hear some stories how they placed the first stargates, which worlds were included or left out, how the first domes looked like. The area around of a stargate is nothing in comparsion to the surface of a planet, so I am guessing they brought animals and plants from Earth. That is the reason I was brainstorming that the next Stargate could talk more about biology related subjects (evolution, adaption, climate change, protection of environment) while they could still write stories about it if one of the main characters would be a biology or geology expert. It could be a nice move from history to biology. Even the main bad guys could be some form of bioterrorist, who turned against the gate system users....


    It would be still hard to explain why we could not see any other non-Earth based ecosystems. Some concept arts of Stargate : Worlds has shown some, so I know budget wise they could not afford such things in a tv show. We can also not expect that every week we will see an Avatar type of new worlds with new plants and animals. That is the reason it would have been nice to occasionally something else then pine trees. Have the Ancients merged the local plants? Or have they used just Earth based ones? Could we see such animals which became extinct on Earth? etc.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnosperm

    * * *
    Underwater aliens... Well... There could be even different races with different motives. Or different folks of the same race. You know once like dark closed worlds under the ice, while others like the tropical sea planets, the third one which likes wondering to the mainlands, the fourth one maybe like the swamps with rotten leafs etc. There would be so much fun to introduce a proper water race. One of them could still activaley interfere other worlds (tsunamis, floods), while other would just simply freeze everyone. Or they could go for daily mission in "water suits" and that is how the heroes would contact them. Or even the weather changing devices could influence their culture etc. Or they could sit on giants sea horses like a classis Ariel type mermaid. I always wanted to see manta rays type aliens flying through the stargate without water into the SGC. If they could film them in a tank, maybe they could be added digitally easily. (By the way once I asked Joe Mallozzi why could they not make a scene with a camel is going through the gate, but he said it needs lots of authorization of using animals on the show. Probably the PETA / Green Peace would watch them nonstoply.)

    Not to mention there are such real life sea animals which could be digitally scanned to have an "alien" on the show. Here are some examples that even our nature can create such races which looks like aliens:

    Like these sea dragons:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_seadragon
    https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.1340...x800,070,f.jpg
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...eniolatus1.jpg
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...yllopteryx.jpg

    Blue dragon:
    https://steemit.com/animals/@rocking...ien-from-earth
    https://hybridtechcar.com//wp-conten...original38.jpg

    Not to mention these guys :
    http://www.storytrender.com/12102/st...es-look-world/
    http://www.clearlifestyles.com/wow-2...ike-pokemon/5/
    https://hybridtechcar.com/sea-creatu...liens-planets/

    Or if they could visit exotic alien worlds there are so many crystals, marples, mushrooms which could be inspiration to odd looking alien worlds. JM also said that it is not a lack of imagination that they can not find out new aliens with weird looking for the Stargate : Universe show... It is rather a budget question.
    Have you ever heard from the Naica cave in Mexico?
    http://www.luvthat.com/wp-content/up...hua_Mexico.jpg

    Or the Wave in Arizona, USA?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wave,_Arizona

    Or the Glowworm cave in New Zealand?
    http://www.rumblerum.com/glowworm-cave-new-zealand/

    Or Hang Son Doong cave in Vietnam?
    http://www.atchuup.com/son-doong/

    or the Dallol Vulcano in Ethiopia?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallol_(volcano)
    https://steemit.com/photography/@car...rt-in-ethiopia

    or the Danxia Mountains in Zhangye, China?
    http://www.awakeningstate.com/nature...hangye-danxia/

    So such places are the inspirations for me to imagine "wild" alien planets. Okay, they can never afford to shoot some scenes there (Naica would be too hot anyway), but maybe they could use them as digital backgrounds. You know I would be happy with a stargate on the savannah with some real / digital baobabs or acacia trees or dragon trees. There are such rare plants on Socotra as well which could be used as inspiration or digital background in the future. Just they should forget the pine trees!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adansonia_digitata
    http://www.viralforest.com/alien-looking-place-earth/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracaena_cinnabari
    http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-...ears-old-00866
    https://forum.gateworld.net/threads/...galaxy-in-2020
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

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  7. #27
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    There have been a few references to both the Goa'uld and Ancients terraforming planets. Here's the Goa'uld one:

    DANIEL
    For a planet with a U.V. radiation as high as this one's supposed to have, the plant life seems to be doing very well.

    CARTER
    Apparently, Abydos was the exception, not the rule, as far as trees are concerned.

    DANIEL
    Well, that makes sense. I mean, in order for a planet to support human life, there must be some form of carbon-based vegetation, right?

    [Carter nods.]

    TEAL'C
    It is no accident. Many Stargate worlds were terra-formed by the Goa'uld centuries ago.
    Of course, that's from the sixth episode of the series when the Goa'uld were considered to be the creators of the Stargates, so Teal'c's belief may be another example of the Goa'uld taking credit for something they never actually did. They certainly transported animals and plants from Earth even if they didn't engage in full scale planetary terraforming projects, though.
    Last edited by Xaeden; January 30th, 2019 at 12:12 AM.

  8. #28
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    So was it conceivable that ordinary homo sapiens as we are could emerge without any connection to the Ancients at all? Could it be that Ancients were only one portion of humans that emerged in one or another galaxy and that other humans existed simultaneously and independently of the Ancients?

  9. #29
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davey View Post
    So was it conceivable that ordinary homo sapiens as we are could emerge without any connection to the Ancients at all? Could it be that Ancients were only one portion of humans that emerged in one or another galaxy and that other humans existed simultaneously and independently of the Ancients?
    Based on what we know, no. Ancients seeded human life in the milky way, left and then seeded more human life in Pegasus.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    So where did the Sakaras come from, who themselves seeded planets? Not to mention other humanoids as those we have seen on SG1??

  11. #31

    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    The current theory of life formed after the Big Bang
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    Jelgate is right

  12. #32
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Davey View Post
    So was it conceivable that ordinary homo sapiens as we are could emerge without any connection to the Ancients at all? Could it be that Ancients were only one portion of humans that emerged in one or another galaxy and that other humans existed simultaneously and independently of the Ancients?
    I'd say no. They did exist simultaneously since it is mentioned that some of them stayed on Earth with the ''primitives'' and others left the Galaxy.

    Also, if I may add (for our own history, not SG), Homo Sapiens (the modern man), co-existed with many different ''kind'' of humans, contrary to the old theory that somehow Sapiens wiped out the previous humans on Earth and took over. Paleolithic humans have spread out all over the globe pretty much, you had the classic caveman with the big noses in the North (Europe) and other settlements in Asia as well.

    It is theorized that humans had been living in Asian for 75k-100k years prior to the arrival of Sapiens. All this we know due to gene analysis of some isolated tribes in Africa and Asia. Basically, we are a mixture of genes of different strains of humans since Sapiens spread all over the globe.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  13. #33
    Airman Franksixer's Avatar
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    Stargate Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    Based on what we know, no. Ancients seeded human life in the milky way, left and then seeded more human life in Pegasus.
    I agree with this, and even if this wasn't the case the Dakara weapon, was indeed capable of destroying and creating life... From what I can remember off the cuff... Which as we know was built by the ancients... I'd go as far as to say they might have seeded life beyond the Pegasus Galaxy... We just never got around to seeing it... Maybe because the Destiny...(from SGU) was out for several million years or so.. so many of those off-world planets that were seeded with Gates could have had human (non ascended ancients, AKA our ancestors) life at one point or another... how do we know that the ancients themselves didn't inhabit some of those worlds that were seeded before they ascended?...

    By the way, this post is not meant to discredit anyone else's post... I'm just stating my own opinion, mixed with some facts

    Also back to the original OP's question about non-human life on other planets... I think so.. think about the Ursini that were found on the seed ship that was ahead of the Destiny.. that's not to say they are the only ones, but I think that's a pretty good example... Based on the fact they could read and operate ancient systems efficiently... I've always wondered do they have the ancient gene?? They would have to wouldn't they?? And I know they might have been self-taught, because they showed signs of being psychic.. and also kind of having a hive mind. But you need the gene right?..also yes I am very aware that it's possible for an ancient system to be initiated, and then the gene does not have to be used afterward..but doctor Rush clearly states that the seed ships were unmanned! And with the universe being as big as it is and with the ancients being the ACTUAL gate builders and finding that "meaning of life/universe" for lack of a better term, transmission/signal at the end of destiny's course/end of the universe, it's hard to believe that in all of their wisdom, they wouldn't have seeded, or even experimented (which we've seen them do with Fringe scientists on Atlantis) with other species.

    Just a thought! let me know what you think of mine!!

    Cheers,
    -Frank
    Last edited by Franksixer; March 11th, 2019 at 12:12 AM.
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  14. #34
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Franksixer View Post
    I think so.. think about the Ursini that were found on the seed ship that was ahead of the Destiny.. that's not to say they are the only ones, but I think that's a pretty good example... Based on the fact they could read and operate ancient systems efficiently... I've always wondered do they have the ancient gene?? They would have to wouldn't they??
    Destiny era technology pre-dates gene locked technology, so gaining full control of the seed ship would have simply been a matter of password cracking.

    And with the universe being as big as it is and with the ancients being the ACTUAL gate builders and finding that "meaning of life/universe" for lack of a better term, transmission/signal at the end of destiny's course/end of the universe, it's hard to believe that in all of their wisdom, they wouldn't have seeded, or even experimented (which we've seen them do with Fringe scientists on Atlantis) with other species.
    Sure, there's nothing to suggest that the Ancients only created humans, but the Ursini were natives to that area of space who discovered the seed ship and boarded in during their people's war with the drones. Unless you're suggesting they were actually created by the seed ship, it's not really plausible for the Ancients to have made them since they were from a faraway galaxy that the Destiny only just arrived in after traveling for untold millions of years.

  15. #35
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    The Ancients have never even been out there. They never boarded the Destiny once it left. Or at the very least it is mostly believed that the Ancients never bothered to board after it left the known cluster of galaxies because they became more concerned with ascension (after which it is quite reasonable to assume, I think, that they would have learned what the CMBR was anyway). And as far as I know about the seed ships, they were only capable of manufacturing and planting stargates.

  16. #36
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by NickEast View Post
    The Ancients have never even been out there. They never boarded the Destiny once it left. Or at the very least it is mostly believed that the Ancients never bothered to board after it left the known cluster of galaxies because they became more concerned with ascension (after which it is quite reasonable to assume, I think, that they would have learned what the CMBR was anyway). And as far as I know about the seed ships, they were only capable of manufacturing and planting stargates.
    *Believed to

    Speculation as far as I'm concerned
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  17. #37
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Sure, but even if they did go at some point, it seems physically impossible that they could have got to a ship billions of light years away, and then somehow got themselves far enough ahead of it to create life that could evolve for several million years into the forms that the Destiny expedition meets during SGU.
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  18. #38
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    Sure, but even if they did go at some point, it seems physically impossible that they could have got to a ship billions of light years away, and then somehow got themselves far enough ahead of it to create life that could evolve for several million years into the forms that the Destiny expedition meets during SGU.
    This part I agree, one could also assume the seeding tech wasn't around in the Destiny era. Also makes no sense whatsoever that the Ursini would've been created by the Ancients and evolved to a high-tech society by the time the seed ship went through this galaxy.

    As for the Ancients visiting Destiny, I like to think some did and merged their minds permanently with the computer, which would explain the sort of ''AI'' that Destiny has (referring to the part where Destiny is seemingly aware of which supplies are needed for the ship / people on board). But here I go derailing a thread again, sorry.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  19. #39
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Don't get me wrong, I also believe in a way that some Ancients visited Destiny at some point, perhaps as part of the mass exodus together with Atlantis leaving, the time loop machine, and the Dakara device. I felt that they perhaps upgraded some parts of the Destiny to make it more durable or something.

    In any case, I thought it was mentioned in SGU that the Ancients never boarded Destiny?

  20. #40
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did Ancients create non-human aliens?

    Quote Originally Posted by NickEast View Post
    In any case, I thought it was mentioned in SGU that the Ancients never boarded Destiny?
    It's been a year or two since I've watched it so I could be dead wrong, but that was my recollection as well.
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

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