Point of Light (203)

[GateWorld]

STAR TREK: DISCOVERY - SEASON TWO
POINT OF LIGHT
EPISODE NUMBER - 203

Tyler struggles with his position as Torchbearer, as L'Rell fights to maintain control over the Klingon High Council. A visitor brings new intel about Spock to Discovery, and Tilly's imaginary friend causes problems.

VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >>

[Gollumpus]

Imo this was a let down after last week's episode.

regards,
G.

[P-90_177]

Things get better and better.

The get a few things that I find a bit 'meh' out of the way.
First, I do feel L'Rell should have been more pissed off that Starfleet got themselves involved. I realise their bomb was how she gained power in the first place but you'd think having Georgiou actively intervene and basically give her orders over what to do would have given her more of that klingon "murder, kill, death" look in her eyes. Though I grant she had almost died a few seconds ago so...
Second, I feel like Tilly's spore issue was resolved a bit too quickly. I mean I know they still have that entity and that they need to learn more about it but still...Though I have to admit that Mae was starting to get annoying. Which isn't really a bad thing cos it put us in Tilly's shoes. It may have been more interesting to have Mae's influence help Tilly get ahead before she realised she was something nefarious. But she's a Starfleet officer, so not taking the advice of hallucinations is definitely the smart thing to do.
Finally, I'm not sure how I feel about Spock having seen the angels in the past and it being that key a moment in his and Burnham's relationship. I mean tv shows are built on coincidence but that is pushing it a little. But that being said it is more or less what I expected and I do really like how that incident and Michael apparently doing something horrible to push him away does make for a good reason why Spock is so... emotionally damaged in TOS when compared to other Vulcans.

Now for the stuff I loved.
Amanda is awesome. The actress portrays a wonderful balance of warmth and rationality but also a kind of serene introvertedness. Very human but obviously the kind of woman who would be enamoured with the Vulcan way of life. The kind of person who has enough empathy to see through the veil of logic. And I love how she, Burnham and Pike all refuse to believe that Spock is a killer. I mean they would, but that's my point. It's very in character.

Burnham solving Tilly's problem was awesome because it was a very logical deduction of the problem based purely on what Tilly very briefly and emotionally described. The "I know, I'm a xeno-anthropologist..." line made me lol. As well as "You don't need a doctor. You need Stamets." That was just a cool line. Massive props to Mary Wiseman too cos Tilly in that scene looks like crap. Like she looks and acts exactly like someone whose life is crumbling and there's something just wearing her down to the bone.

Saru once again proves what an awesome officer he is. He completely understands Tilly's mindset and reassures her and he reacts instantly when the parasite is pulled out of her. All in all the whole Discovery crew acts competently in this episode, which is great because that is so rare in a lot of Star Trek, yet it's such basic things like warning an approaching ship that they'll take defensive measures if they don't identify themselves or instantly activating a containment field and pulling out a phaser when an unknown alien parasite is revealed.

As for the Klingon stuff... Honestly this is likely the most accurate depiction of Klingon politics since Redemption in TNG. The idea that the D7 was a ship created as a warship for a united empire makes perfect sense, and the way the Klingons act in regards to honour but simultaneously ignore it for the sake of political gain is exactly what we've seen before in TNG and DS9. Also they just look so much better with hair!

The idea that L'Rell and Voq had a child is something I hope they'll return to along the line. There are some questions raised about klingon gestation and aging but hell it's hardly the first time.

The hand to hand combat was very cool.

Not much to say about Georgiou except to say that it is interesting that she embraces her new position as an S31 Operative. That stealth ship also looks damn awesome. If we do get an S31 spinoff I hope that is the design they go for cos it just works.

Bugs me a little bit that apparently everyone knows what Section 31 is but I suppose theoretically they spent a lot of time burying themselves over the next century.

[Chaka-Z0]

Is it just me or the Klingon L'rell looks very much different than season 1?

[P-90_177]

Is it just me or the Klingon L'rell looks very much different than season 1?

Quite a bit actually.



It's not a bad thing. I'm sure the actress much prefers it and it does make the Klingons look much more like their old selves. I did like how they didn't completely backtrack though. Some of the Klingons still appeared completely bald or close to it while others were properly growing back their hair and beards. It made for some variety which I think was one of the biggest issues people had with the Season 1 look cos you almost couldn't tell one klingon from another.

My only real issue with L'Rell is that I felt she should still be wearing some form of armour. BUT, having said that she did know her position as Chancillor was tenuous and I suppose from a Klingon stand point a Chancillor that doesn't wear armour is a pretty gutsy move.

[Chaka-Z0]

Quite a bit actually.



It's not a bad thing. I'm sure the actress much prefers it and it does make the Klingons look much more like their old selves. I did like how they didn't completely backtrack though. Some of the Klingons still appeared completely bald or close to it while others were properly growing back their hair and beards. It made for some variety which I think was one of the biggest issues people had with the Season 1 look cos you almost couldn't tell one klingon from another.

My only real issue with L'Rell is that I felt she should still be wearing some form of armour. BUT, having said that she did know her position as Chancillor was tenuous and I suppose from a Klingon stand point a Chancillor that doesn't wear armour is a pretty gutsy move.

Nice pic! Thanks for that!

I have no issues with that really, I just found it odd that her skin color changed (or maybe it was the lighting on the ship giving her this hue, but if I recall on the Klingon ship she looked more blue-gray). I have no clue what a Klingon is supposed to look like, other than the weird foreheads I've seen in the few epi of ST I watched in my lifetime. I think they look cool, a little bit like orcs from LOTR.

Their world sure look like a Game of Thrones environment. Medieval era in a futuristic society is weird but pretty cool.

Got a question for Lt. Tyler though, so if I got this right the Klingon operated on him, ripped him apart and swapped some organs for those of Vok, so he's somewhere in between Klingon ''organic memories'' and his own? I'm still unclear as to his personality swap? If I recall, L'Rell was forced to perform some procedure on him last season but I can't remember what she did exactly, Tyler seems like his former self again.

[P-90_177]

Nice pic! Thanks for that!

I have no issues with that really, I just found it odd that her skin color changed (or maybe it was the lighting on the ship giving her this hue, but if I recall on the Klingon ship she looked more blue-gray). I have no clue what a Klingon is supposed to look like, other than the weird foreheads I've seen in the few epi of ST I watched in my lifetime. I think they look cool, a little bit like orcs from LOTR.

Their world sure look like a Game of Thrones environment. Medieval era in a futuristic society is weird but pretty cool.

Got a question for Lt. Tyler though, so if I got this right the Klingon operated on him, ripped him apart and swapped some organs for those of Vok, so he's somewhere in between Klingon ''organic memories'' and his own? I'm still unclear as to his personality swap? If I recall, L'Rell was forced to perform some procedure on him last season but I can't remember what she did exactly, Tyler seems like his former self again.

It's best not to think too much on the actual procedure in creating Voq into Tyler. We kind of have to assume there was a real Tyler at some point cos otherwise Starfleet would have instantly been like "he ain't one of ours" as soon as he came aboard Disco. My own assumption is that they basically probed the real Tyler's mind, grafted those memories and personality onto Voq and then killed the real Tyler. When Voq's personality was released at the end of season 1, it created such a break within his mind that it was effectively killing him, so L'Rell erased Voq's personality, but his memories are still intact within the re-created Tyler personality.

As Voq/Tyler is at the moment he has all the memories of Voq and all the memories of Tyler. But chooses to be Tyler because that's the personality that is left. But if we are all the sum of our memories then those memories he has of being Voq affect him too which is why he sometimes has a bit more of a Klingon side about him like when he was playing that gambling game at the end of season one or when how he dedicated himself to L'Rell who is by all accounts, Voq's mate.

[Chaka-Z0]

As Voq/Tyler is at the moment he has all the memories of Voq and all the memories of Tyler. But chooses to be Tyler because that's the personality that is left. But if we are all the sum of our memories then those memories he has of being Voq affect him too which is why he sometimes has a bit more of a Klingon side about him like when he was playing that gambling game at the end of season one or when how he dedicated himself to L'Rell who is by all accounts, Voq's mate.

Me? Not overcomplicating stuff such as this? Pfff not going to happen.

If I recall, shortly before the Doc got his neck snapped, he seemed amazed when he scanned Tyler and mentioned a theory that if you put enough genetic material (organs) into another person's body, that person assimilates some of the ''organic knowledge'' of the previous host. I think Tyler is still the very same Tyler. He just went through a Pimp my Klingon without his consent. The personality thing, I don't know, there must've been some ''catchphrase'' or code word embedded in him somehow, possibly with conditioning since that can be done in real life, (we saw him react instantly when L'rell was a prisoner on-board Discovery and she seemed surprised he wasn't 100% overtaken by Voq's personnality).

It makes sense though, this theory is somewhat already been proven true. Some folks that underwent heart transplant said they had some muscle memories of the previous donor. I remember reading an article on one special case, the man was given a new heart and a couple weeks later he realized he was able to play the violin almost perfectly, when he had never touched a musical instrument in his life. (The donor was a musician).

[P-90_177]

Me? Not overcomplicating stuff such as this? Pfff not going to happen.

If I recall, shortly before the Doc got his neck snapped, he seemed amazed when he scanned Tyler and mentioned a theory that if you put enough genetic material (organs) into another person's body, that person assimilates some of the ''organic knowledge'' of the previous host. I think Tyler is still the very same Tyler. He just went through a Pimp my Klingon without his consent. The personality thing, I don't know, there must've been some ''catchphrase'' or code word embedded in him somehow, possibly with conditioning since that can be done in real life, (we saw him react instantly when L'rell was a prisoner on-board Discovery and she seemed surprised he wasn't 100% overtaken by Voq's personnality).

It makes sense though, this theory is somewhat already been proven true. Some folks that underwent heart transplant said they had some muscle memories of the previous donor. I remember reading an article on one special case, the man was given a new heart and a couple weeks later he realized he was able to play the violin almost perfectly, when he had never touched a musical instrument in his life. (The donor was a musician).

No Culber doesn't say anything like that. He mentions bone crushing then confirms to Tyler that when they initially tested him on his arrival they found no evidence of hidden memory engrams (that would be implied to be evidence of brainwashing or such), but suggests that some have theorised the possibility of memory and personality engrams being implanted on top of an existing personality, thereby overwriting the original, which is what happened to Voq. He doesn't mention anything about genetic material or his organs.

[Platschu]

I knew it will be an other amazing episode as soon as they started the episode "Previously on Star Trek Discovery" sentence in klingon.

All 3 stories were great and the main plot has moved forward too. Tilly was great and the actress has played the emotions really well.

I also loved the klingon storyline : the dresses, the little references (what I couldn't understand), the story twists, so it was simply great.

The episode also felt like a "backdoor pilot" for the Section 31 spinoff. I can't wait to see more Star Trek in this quality.

[P-90_177]

Yeah I got that sort of backdoor pilot vibe too. Interesting thing I read is that the series for S31 is going to have to do with how they went from being a more open black ops arm of starfleet to a full on hidden shadow organisation in the 24th Century... which is cool cos that's exactly what I was hoping for.

[Platschu]

I was a bit confused about the loyality of Voq/Ash. He still has feeling towards Michael, while he can also remember Voq's romance with L'Rell. And as soon as he learned that he became a father, he turned to L'Rell. It has felt a bit rushed.

I was worried what if Section 31 has replaced L'Rell as well. It would fit to Captain / Emperor Georgiou that she would turn into the leader of klingons. But at least they have simply fooled everyone and the baby and the Ash survived. Honestly I can't wait to see how the writers are planning to use Georgiou and Ash as part of S31 in season 2. On the other hand, I am a bit sad that they have revealed that she could be the main character of the S31 show as it feels she became a "protected character". So whatever happens in ST: D season 2, she will survive it.

I also like how everyone is honest with each other this season. Tilly revealed her problemsm while Burnham and her mother also told the truth to Captain Pike. I like such things as it feels the main characters began to trust each other.

We have seen most of the scenes now from the season trailer, so I can't wait for the next episodes.

[P-90_177]

I was a bit confused about the loyality of Voq/Ash. He still has feeling towards Michael, while he can also remember Voq's romance with L'Rell. And as soon as he learned that he became a father, he turned to L'Rell. It has felt a bit rushed.

I was worried what if Section 31 has replaced L'Rell as well. It would fit to Captain / Emperor Georgiou that she would turn into the leader of klingons. But at least they have simply fooled everyone and the baby and the Ash survived. Honestly I can't wait to see how the writers are planning to use Georgiou and Ash as part of S31 in season 2. On the other hand, I am a bit sad that they have revealed that she could be the main character of the S31 show as it feels she became a "protected character". So whatever happens in ST: D season 2, she will survive it.

I also like how everyone is honest with each other this season. Tilly revealed her problemsm while Burnham and her mother also told the truth to Captain Pike. I like such things as it feels the main characters began to trust each other.

We have seen most of the scenes now from the season trailer, so I can't wait for the next episodes.

I don't think it was rushed. At the end of the day Tyler has the memories of both, and despite what he said about feeling violated when L'Rell touches him he still clearly has more conflicted feelings for her. He'd already committed himself to her side, it's just when he found out about a child he realised that he needed to try harder to foster a relationship with L'Rell for the sake of being a good father to his child. That feels like a fairly natural, if somewhat traditional reaction.

I seriously doubt L'Rell has been replaced. It's easier for a klingon to blend in with Klingons, and as far as S31 is concerned she is easily manipulated.

Georgiou I think was always a protected character. Michelle Yeoh is just too good an actress to dispose of. Her death at the start of season 1 was the first thing that clued me in to the idea that the Mirror universe would play a major role because she had to be brought back.

[Platschu]

I agree. Michelel Yeoh is so talented! I loved her face expression when Ash was holding his son on the board of the S31 ship.

By the way, can it happen that their child will have descendants and maybe he will be connected to any future klingon character? Before they have introduced him, I was even thinking if a human male Ash could father a child for a klingon lady after season 1, because it could have explained how the look of klingon is changing rapidly. Then I was thinking on this idea that it wouldn't affect the whole klingon population even if their common descendant could have plenty of children, so their change could be explained by a genetic illness or something. Then they have simply explained that grow back hair and beards after war times. Tricky and easy soluton. to calm the old ST fans

Talking about Section 31. What was this new ship? Somehow I expected that the Discovery will be the main headoffice of the S31 as even their ship number is similar. That was the reason I couldn't understand how they want to introduce the S31 spinoff, if the Discovery must be given to them, so essentially they could start that spinoff when the Discovery is cancelled. Then it was a complete surprise how the story evolved and how Georgiou was involved in 2x03.

[DigiFluid]

Speaking of overcomplicating things....are we ready for a little bit of a canon deep-cut?


The planet where they drop off L'Rell and Voq's child is named as Boreth. The more astute among you (or if you're like me, a sponge for useless trivia) will recognize that name: Boreth previously appeared in the Season 6 TNG episode "Rightful Heir."

In that episode, the only location on the planet (so far as we are shown) is the monastery; the monastery is run by the Followers of Kahless, who came to Boreth many centuries earlier, following one of the legends of Kahless. In the 'Story of the Promise,' Kahless is said to have consoled other Klingons lamenting his departure by saying "you are Klingons. You need no one but yourselves. I will go now to Sto-vo-kor. But I promise one day I will return," and then pointing up at a star in the night sky and saying "look for me there, on that point of light."

The title of this episode is "Point of Light."

But we can dive even deeper and make two further (conflicting) suppositions!

Both options hinge on one important (canon!) predicate: Klingons live a really damn long time! The Klingons Kang, Kor, and Koloth all featured in TOS, which is set ten years after Discovery. All three of those Klingons were alive and well a century later, when they appeared in the DS9 episode "Blood Oath," so it is entirely reasonable to believe that the child of L'Rell and Voq was also alive and well in the TNG/DS9 era.

Option A
Eventually, the monks of Boreth had their patience 'rewarded' when Kahless did return, albeit in the form of a clone that they had created. I posit that it is entirely possible that the child grows up to become one of the monks we see in "Rightful Heir", fulfilling at long last the dreams of his parents--followers of T'Kuvma, who preached a return to the purest values of Kahless.

Option B
Full disclosure: I hadn't even thought of this one till someone I was chatting with on Twitter suggested it, so I can't take credit. But I thought it was an intriguing enough possibility that it deserves to be heard.

What if the child grows up to become the Albino, from DS9's "Blood Oath"? The species of the Albino is never actually identified in that episode, and we know from Season 1 of Discovery that the child has at least one parent with albino skin characteristics in Voq. The child certainly looked very pale in this episode.

All we know about the Albino from that DS9 is that he seems to despise Klingons--particularly members of the Klingon societal elite. Suppose the child, at some point, learns of his heritage and how he was 'abandoned' by his parents on this distant world, far from civilization, because he was a weakness to his parents that the elite of Klingon society could exploit? That's certainly motivation to hate Klingons!