Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    Chief Master Sergeant
    Member Since
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    196

    Default Raise the Shield! Close the Iris!

    Technically speaking, what happens to anyone or thing that proceeds into the wormhole and is stopped by the shield on the other end? Do their molecules just disintegrate? What happens when the stargate is reactivated? What happens to the remnants of the people or ships etc. that were stuck in the wormhole but stopped by the shield??
    And generally speaking, what protects the integrity of a person or thing proceeding through the gate to ensure that on the other side their legs aren't in their head or their eyes aren't in their stomach?

  2. #2
    Second Lieutenant
    Member Since
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    433

    Default Re: Raise the Shield! Close the Iris!

    First two questions: This was addressed in both SG-1 and Atlantis. If the Iris is not lifted and if a person attempts going trough the SGC's Stargate, they are instantly killed. The same thing applies to Stargate shield on Atlantis.

    It's basically why ALL SG teams (water by foot or a Puddle Jumper or some other type of gate-traveling space ship) carry a remote which allows them to send their own personal code trough the wormhole BEFORE entering it. Besides it being a base security measure, it is also a safety measure for those that are about to return home/to base - so they wouldn't end up killing themselves. It's a good way to prevent your enemies from taking control of your base/planet. The Iris concept has been present since the very beginning of SG-1. Hammond says it himself - it's a security measure.

    SGU, for some reason, DID NOT have an Iris-based device on Destiny's gate. Which was a BIG mistake.

    For 3,4,5: Watch the episode where Teal'c gets trapped in the Stargate.
    Last edited by Mnikolic; January 8th, 2019 at 07:21 AM.

  3. #3
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    18,246

    Default Re: Raise the Shield! Close the Iris!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mnikolic View Post
    SGU, for some reason, DID NOT have an Iris-based device on Destiny's gate. Which was a BIG mistake.
    They were on an Ancient ship, from a time predating all other sentient life (as far as we are aware). The Ancients wouldn't have had any reason to block the gate, and the Earth/LA expedition had no means of constructing one.
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  4. #4
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2018
    Location
    P3X-888
    Posts
    716

    Default Re: Raise the Shield! Close the Iris!

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    They were on an Ancient ship, from a time predating all other sentient life (as far as we are aware). The Ancients wouldn't have had any reason to block the gate, and the Earth/LA expedition had no means of constructing one.
    Wrong, they had encountered the Ori already.

    Edit: I base this assumption on the fact that Destiny left from the Milky Way, and since we know the Ancients parted way with the Ori and settled in the MW, it's safe to assume they clearly knew external threats were out there.
    Last edited by Chaka-Z0; January 8th, 2019 at 10:11 AM.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  5. #5
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    18,246

    Default Re: Raise the Shield! Close the Iris!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Wrong, they had encountered the Ori already.

    Edit: I base this assumption on the fact that Destiny left from the Milky Way, and since we know the Ancients parted way with the Ori and settled in the MW, it's safe to assume they clearly knew external threats were out there.
    Yes, they’d had the Ori as a physical threat in their original galaxy.

    But they’d left their original galaxy to the Ori luddite extremists. More to the point: the concept and earliest conceptual drawing of a Stargate—not even close to a working model—was done by one of the Alterans who fled their home galaxy. So there’s no reason to expect or even imagine that the Ori had any similar technology, and so no reason to build a safeguard against a scenario that was unlikely in the extreme.

    It’s not just the Destiny gate—the same philosophy pervades the entire Stargate design. Excepting ‘after-market’ barriers like the Earth-manufactured iris, we never saw or heard of a single barrier on any Milky Way gate. Same thing in Pegasus with the sole exception of Atlantis, where it makes perfect sense that they’d have installed in when they were warring with either the Asurans or the Wraith.

    But the Ori were not that threat when the gate networks were built.

    To ground it in Earthlike terms: if the guy threatening you on the street doesn’t own a computer (and you’re the only two people in the world), there’s no reason for you to install a firewall.
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  6. #6
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2018
    Location
    P3X-888
    Posts
    716

    Default Re: Raise the Shield! Close the Iris!

    I can understand your reasoning, but we have no clue at what stage of technology the Ori were when the Ancients left the Galaxy. That whole ''Ancient lore of the Ancients'' is very vague to say the least.

    Answer me this, would you leave your door unlocked while you're gone for millions of years, a door which opens up to a penthouse worth billions of dollars with incredible knowledge kept within? Destiny had secret codes that prevented the crew from accessing the bridge, why did they put this safeguard that can only be resolved using complex math yet left the door wide open? One could say it's because they expected us to gate in at some point, okay that's cool, just leave the DHD code in the database so nobody else but Lanteans can gate in.

    I've addressed this before in a SGU thread, and I always found it ludicrous that only a couple worlds had Iris installed on their gate. How hard would it be seriously, just carve a piece of wood and remove it when you want to dial out, it should work as long as the horizon is blocked no?

    IMO it was just a convenient plothole that made writing easier. It would become very tedious if everytime a SG team goes on a mission they need to ''hack'' the Iris or break it open somehow to gate in.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  7. #7
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,136

    Default Re: Raise the Shield! Close the Iris!

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    They were on an Ancient ship, from a time predating all other sentient life (as far as we are aware). The Ancients wouldn't have had any reason to block the gate, and the Earth/LA expedition had no means of constructing one.
    Also, there are a number of protections built in that make it unlikely that anyone but the Ancients or the inheritors of their civilization can get there:

    1) If using the 9th chevron to gate to the Destiny someone actually needs to know the address, and they need to know that it's only possible to dial from Earth (or to trick the gate into thinking they are dialing from Earth). The likelihood of someone figuring this out through random dialing is astronomical.

    2) If gating there locally, you need a portable DHD, which means you need to either be someone who came from Destiny or you need to have taken a portable DHD off a member of the crew... or you need to follow a crew member through a gate. Alternatively, it's possible something could be hacked together, but that would be challenging.

    First, if it's unclear if manual dialing is possible. Although the gates do spin, the Icarus base crew think being on a planet without a portable DHD means they'd be trapped, so it could be that the gates have a security measure that the Milky Way gates do not which makes it impossible to dial them without a recognized input device. This would make sense since the Milky Way gates were intended to exist within the Ancient's sphere of influence, whereas it would be problematic if native races in faraway galaxies started using seeded gates with impunity (see the Goa'uld who was able to do this because of the unexpected fall of the Ancient's civilization). If this is the case, it means it's impossible to put something together without having an Ancient portable DHD to reverse engineer, so an alien race couldn't figure out how to use the gate network prior the Ancient's planned arrival.

    Second, if it is possible to hack together a dialing program like Earth did, it's still challenging as they'd have nothing to go on. Earth had a partial address. Without that or without seeing the gates work (which they wouldn't have for all but the few months that the Destiny is around) how do you figure out what those symbols mean and how many of them you need to input?

    As a result, not having a shielded gate is only a problem for the imagined Ancients who would one day go there as being followed through the gate or losing a portable DHD is a real possibility, but considering they did not imagine going there until so long into the future, it's possible they may have assumed that their descendants would've brought technology with them to secure the gate.

  8. #8
    Second Lieutenant
    Member Since
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    433

    Default Re: Raise the Shield! Close the Iris!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    I can understand your reasoning, but we have no clue at what stage of technology the Ori were when the Ancients left the Galaxy. That whole ''Ancient lore of the Ancients'' is very vague to say the least.

    Answer me this, would you leave your door unlocked while you're gone for millions of years, a door which opens up to a penthouse worth billions of dollars with incredible knowledge kept within? Destiny had secret codes that prevented the crew from accessing the bridge, why did they put this safeguard that can only be resolved using complex math yet left the door wide open? One could say it's because they expected us to gate in at some point, okay that's cool, just leave the DHD code in the database so nobody else but Lanteans can gate in.

    I've addressed this before in a SGU thread, and I always found it ludicrous that only a couple worlds had Iris installed on their gate. How hard would it be seriously, just carve a piece of wood and remove it when you want to dial out, it should work as long as the horizon is blocked no?

    IMO it was just a convenient plothole that made writing easier. It would become very tedious if everytime a SG team goes on a mission they need to ''hack'' the Iris or break it open somehow to gate in.
    All SG teams had an ETA when they had to contact the base/come back. If an Iris/gate shield would not be put in place, the enemy could easily overcome the security protocols in the given base in a couple of ways:

    1. An SG team goes to a mission to a planet/a planet in another Galaxy. The team is overrun and overpowered by alien hostile forces. They are held at gunpoint. No Iris/gate shield on the Gate in the base. The alien hostile force wins with the power of manipulation as the SG team manages to get back with the said aliens who end up putting a spell on everyone.

    2. An SG team goes to a mission to a planet/a planet in another Galaxy. The team is overrun and overpowered by alien hostile forces. They are held at gunpoint and brainwashed so they are made to do what is against their will. No Iris/gate shield on the Gate in the base. The alien hostile force uses more advanced arsenal to conquer.

    3. A combination of #1 and #2.

    4. If a leader/member of an SG team feels like they are a security menace or if the leader of the base (SGC for example) or if a leader of the off-world team orders the SG team NOT to come true, then spreading an alien virus or even a disease is even easier than it is with Iris/gate shield on the gate. Especially since the General can say he will not have the Iris/gate shield lifted if they are a threat to the base's security. This keeps the home planet/home base safe, keeps the alien virus/disease contained and away from everyone unaffected by it and keeps the compromised SG team from making a faithful mistake. It also gives the medical team the chance to go trough the gate so they can at least offer medical assistance to the infected/wounded.

    5. To put it simply: an Iris/gate shield keeps the bad guys where they should be: OUT. Until an SG team doesn't come and kicks their buts.

    6. And yes, it's stupid that SGC didn't think of installing an Iris on the Stargates belonging at least to Earth's allies and friends. This goes for both SG-1 and Atlantis. But let's imagine SGC did accomplish that following the events in SGU's S1 finale.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    Also, there are a number of protections built in that make it unlikely that anyone but the Ancients or the inheritors of their civilization can get there:

    1) If using the 9th chevron to gate to the Destiny someone actually needs to know the address, and they need to know that it's only possible to dial from Earth (or to trick the gate into thinking they are dialing from Earth). The likelihood of someone figuring this out through random dialing is astronomical.

    2) If gating there locally, you need a portable DHD, which means you need to either be someone who came from Destiny or you need to have taken a portable DHD off a member of the crew... or you need to follow a crew member through a gate. Alternatively, it's possible something could be hacked together, but that would be challenging.

    First, if it's unclear if manual dialing is possible. Although the gates do spin, the Icarus base crew think being on a planet without a portable DHD means they'd be trapped, so it could be that the gates have a security measure that the Milky Way gates do not which makes it impossible to dial them without a recognized input device. This would make sense since the Milky Way gates were intended to exist within the Ancient's sphere of influence, whereas it would be problematic if native races in faraway galaxies started using seeded gates with impunity (see the Goa'uld who was able to do this because of the unexpected fall of the Ancient's civilization). If this is the case, it means it's impossible to put something together without having an Ancient portable DHD to reverse engineer, so an alien race couldn't figure out how to use the gate network prior the Ancient's planned arrival.

    Second, if it is possible to hack together a dialing program like Earth did, it's still challenging as they'd have nothing to go on. Earth had a partial address. Without that or without seeing the gates work (which they wouldn't have for all but the few months that the Destiny is around) how do you figure out what those symbols mean and how many of them you need to input?

    As a result, not having a shielded gate is only a problem for the imagined Ancients who would one day go there as being followed through the gate or losing a portable DHD is a real possibility, but considering they did not imagine going there until so long into the future, it's possible they may have assumed that their descendants would've brought technology with them to secure the gate.
    Which is they did not consider the possibility of the existence of something called the Lucian Alliance. Nice job, Ancients... not.
    Last edited by Mnikolic; January 8th, 2019 at 04:33 PM.

  9. #9
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,136

    Default Re: Raise the Shield! Close the Iris!

    It's more that they didn't consider the possibility of their civilization collapsing and a second evolution of their form (something that Ancients didn't create until much later) would come along and get trapped there. Rather than build things with a less primitive version of themselves in mind, they built the Destiny for their more advanced descendants.

  10. #10
    Probie iliescu's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Raise the Shield! Close the Iris!

    So does it disappear or does it stay open throughout the adventure. Forget which one is dominant in the show might find out later...

  11. #11
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    18,246

    Default Re: Raise the Shield! Close the Iris!

    Yeah that's one of the more absurd complaints I've seen....that the Ancients of 10-50 million years ago didn't foresee that their design would take off, be refined into the MW gates, spread across the entire galaxy, their race be all but wiped out by a plague, a second evolution of their form would come about, be spread across the galaxy by a parasitic snake as slave labour, that a group of that second evolution would become isolated for millennia and emerge later to overthrow the snakes, and that in the aftermath of that war, that criminal elements may hear about a ship from tens of millions of years ago and want to go have a look. How dare the Ancients be so shortsighted!
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  12. #12
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    18,246

    Default Re: Raise the Shield! Close the Iris!

    Actually one thing that always struck me as a little odd is why the SGC only ever closed the iris during a crisis. Yes I know that from a production perspective, it's a means to just ratchet up drama for your viewers, but in-universe you'd think they would just keep the iris shut at all times until they received a GDO signal. That's like having the most secret, secure military base in the world but leaving the front door propped open.
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  13. #13
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2018
    Location
    P3X-888
    Posts
    716

    Default Re: Raise the Shield! Close the Iris!

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    Yeah that's one of the more absurd complaints I've seen....that the Ancients of 10-50 million years ago didn't foresee that their design would take off, be refined into the MW gates, spread across the entire galaxy, their race be all but wiped out by a plague, a second evolution of their form would come about, be spread across the galaxy by a parasitic snake as slave labour, that a group of that second evolution would become isolated for millennia and emerge later to overthrow the snakes, and that in the aftermath of that war, that criminal elements may hear about a ship from tens of millions of years ago and want to go have a look. How dare the Ancients be so shortsighted!
    You don't get what I'm saying. That's not what this is about.

    They did not foresee the consequences of not having an Iris, and that is the absurd element in this whole saga. Maybe that's my human nature talking, but even if I were the apex predator in the Galaxy, I still wouldn't let me guard down and stay on alert for potential enemies, which the Ancients clearly knew there were. They probably did not expect to be overthrown, obviously since they were such pricks in that regards, but they weren't as dumb as not to create new weapons and defensive capabilities.

    They knew the second evolution of their kind was more than likely, hell they seeded the whole Galaxy, how can you say it makes sense they didn't foresee this? Maybe if that happened much later on in the timeline, just go back and update the ship with new features? Again, the fact they put a code to the bridge and other important systems on Destiny means they considered the possibility of hostile / foreign actors boarding the ship.

    They also were a scientific curious race, and should've expected their offspring to be the same. So yes, it doesn't make sense and I maintain my point that the sole reason why it wasn't so is because of storytelling and plot convenience.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  14. #14
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
    Member Since
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    18,246

    Default Re: Raise the Shield! Close the Iris!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    You don't get what I'm saying. That's not what this is about.
    Sorry, I didn't quote - my reply there was meant as a direct response to Mnikolic's post, not yours.
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  15. #15
    Chief Master Sergeant
    Member Since
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    196

    Default Re: Raise the Shield! Close the Iris!

    This is all very confusing. How many times have we seen someone say, "Dial the gate!" With no mention at all of the Identification code first. Just clicking the chevrons. What happened then??
    Beyond that, the point about other planets is very important. How many planets' populations could have been protected had SGC trained local people to know how to receive an incoming wormhole or offworld activation, which would require someone to be constantly near enough the gate to handle the situation with a shield or iris??
    It would have been totally unrealistic and unmanageable.
    Perhaps the production team should have allowed all gates to have a protective closing mechanism. Of course that would make it impossible to travel anywhere unless the traveler knew how to release the shield or closed iris.
    In any case, if someone/vehicle enters the wormhole that is closed on the other end, do their molecules simply disintegrate? Didn't we have a case where Teal'c was trapped in between and had to be extricated in a complicated way? So what happens to the incoming people/vehicles when the wormhole is open again?

  16. #16
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2018
    Location
    P3X-888
    Posts
    716

    Default Re: Raise the Shield! Close the Iris!

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    Sorry, I didn't quote - my reply there was meant as a direct response to Mnikolic's post, not yours.
    Oh I see, Chaka apologizes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Davey View Post
    This is all very confusing. How many times have we seen someone say, "Dial the gate!" With no mention at all of the Identification code first. Just clicking the chevrons. What happened then??
    To be fair, we often see either Carter or Daniel hit buttons on their remote, or it is assumed off screen, and also in the SGC they always mention it too when SG1 is coming back.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

Similar Threads

  1. Raise Shields (of today!) - Video of present-day shield powerups!
    By ssfblue in forum General Stargate Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: September 6th, 2012, 09:24 AM
  2. Replies: 952
    Last Post: April 21st, 2011, 07:23 PM
  3. Episodes where the Atlantis Stargate Iris/Shield was used....
    By gilmoregirlz in forum General Stargate Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: April 11th, 2008, 03:28 AM
  4. The house is under attack! Close the iris!
    By babaganoosh in forum Off-Topic Chatter
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: October 6th, 2005, 10:34 PM
  5. SG-1's Iris or Atlantis' Shield?
    By ApophisOfTheStargateRealm in forum General Stargate Discussion
    Replies: 64
    Last Post: May 21st, 2005, 08:15 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •