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  1. #21
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    Sending astronauts to Mars would be stupid, astronaut says

    Although I disagree with the headline; you're not going to get widespread public support without manned missions, the guy goes on to make a very good point.

    "Nasa couldn't get to the Moon today. They're so ossified... Nasa has turned into a jobs programme... many of the centres are mainly interested in keeping busy and you don't see the public support other than they get the workers their pay and their congressmen get re-elected."

    Anders is also critical of the decision to focus on near-Earth orbit exploration after the completion of the Apollo programme in the 1970s. "I think the space shuttle was a serious error. It hardly did anything except have an exciting launch, but it never lived up to its promise," he said.

    "The space station is only there because you had a shuttle, and vice-versa. Nasa really mismanaged the manned programme since the late lunar landings."
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  2. #22
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    Sending astronauts to Mars would be stupid, astronaut says

    Although I disagree with the headline; you're not going to get widespread public support without manned missions, the guy goes on to make a very good point.
    I'll stick with the headline only but he's right. There's nothing worth while sending an astronaut to Mars. Rovers can do everything a human can do basically for 1/4 the cost. Sending men into space is hard, you need life support systems that takes a lot of room on a craft.

    Yes that's stupid, but probably needed for public opinion and as for the next step to (the real idiots here) the upcoming Mars colony. They will die, plain and simple.

  3. #23
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    I'll stick with the headline only but he's right. There's nothing worth while sending an astronaut to Mars. Rovers can do everything a human can do basically for 1/4 the cost. Sending men into space is hard, you need life support systems that takes a lot of room on a craft.

    Yes that's stupid, but probably needed for public opinion and as for the next step to (the real idiots here) the upcoming Mars colony. They will die, plain and simple.
    A man on mars with a few labs could do years worth of rover experiments in mere days. There's considerable benefit to having a permanent presence on mars. Rovers are slow, have little power and have only a few highly specialized instruments.

    It won't be easy, and timing it is going to be tricky. Wait too long, and public enthusiasm fades. Too early, and tech isn't ready. It requires goodwill and vision and a dedication that indeed i doubt current NASA could bring.

    There's also this interesting factiod:
    https://www.businessinsider.nl/nasa-...onal=true&r=US

    Still, less than two-fifths of the US-based respondents guessed within 1 percentage point of the correct portion. In reality, the agency’s fiscal year 2018 budget was 0.5% of all annual federal spending. That translates to about $20.736 billion of some $4.173 trillion total.

    The average respondent, however, thinks NASA gets about 6.4% of all federal dollars. If that were true for 2018, NASA would have $267 billion to work with – about 13 times as much as it actually gets.

    When asked how much NASA should get, respondents suggested an even larger share: 7.5% of the federal budget, on average. That’s about $313 billion, or more than 15 times the current level.

    That preferred funding level is far more than NASA got during the peak of the Apollo moon-landing program. During that time (when the agency had its biggest budget share ever) NASA got nearly 4.5% of the federal budget.
    So there's definitely public support for NASA to do crazy things.

  4. #24
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    A man on mars with a few labs could do years worth of rover experiments in mere days. There's considerable benefit to having a permanent presence on mars.
    I am not denying the advantages of having boots on the ground, but we are a LONG way from what you're describing. As of right now, even with many ''airdrops'' of supplies and equipment, a human colony on Mars would not survive. Manned mission could take place, but the astronauts would need to be able to go back to Earth. And that right there is the biggest issue.

    How do you take off Mars? How do you escape its gravity? NASA is working on a prototype named the MAV (Mars Ascent Vehicle) which is designed to take off the surface of the Red Planet. Problem is the fuel requirements for this machine is so much for us to even launch it from Earth and land safely on Mars.

    Therefore the MAV would need to be shipped years in advance of the astronauts, and the fuel would need to be harvested by squeezing Mars atmosphere and transforming it into usable fuel.

    Rovers are slow, have little power and have only a few highly specialized instruments.
    They are indeed, but again much more in terms of quantities of experiments can be accomplished in the short term with our current tech with rovers than astronauts, for 1/4 the bill. Keep in mind most Americans disagree with what they consider a ''waste of money'' and NASA's funding is half of what it was in the 70s. NASA can't waste their entire funding on one single manned mission which won't bring much in the long run by itself.

    It won't be easy, and timing it is going to be tricky. Wait too long, and public enthusiasm fades. Too early, and tech isn't ready. It requires goodwill and vision and a dedication that indeed i doubt current NASA could bring.
    As of right now, our tech, in my opinion, doesn't permit a long-term colony settlement on Mars. It's too early and there's much to be done in terms of infrastructures on the ground before attempting such an adventure.

    There's also this interesting factiod:
    https://www.businessinsider.nl/nasa-...onal=true&r=US



    So there's definitely public support for NASA to do crazy things.
    Count me one of them

  5. #25
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    I am not denying the advantages of having boots on the ground, but we are a LONG way from what you're describing. As of right now, even with many ''airdrops'' of supplies and equipment, a human colony on Mars would not survive. Manned mission could take place, but the astronauts would need to be able to go back to Earth. And that right there is the biggest issue.

    How do you take off Mars? How do you escape its gravity? NASA is working on a prototype named the MAV (Mars Ascent Vehicle) which is designed to take off the surface of the Red Planet. Problem is the fuel requirements for this machine is so much for us to even launch it from Earth and land safely on Mars.

    Therefore the MAV would need to be shipped years in advance of the astronauts, and the fuel would need to be harvested by squeezing Mars atmosphere and transforming it into usable fuel.



    They are indeed, but again much more in terms of quantities of experiments can be accomplished in the short term with our current tech with rovers than astronauts, for 1/4 the bill. Keep in mind most Americans disagree with what they consider a ''waste of money'' and NASA's funding is half of what it was in the 70s. NASA can't waste their entire funding on one single manned mission which won't bring much in the long run by itself.



    As of right now, our tech, in my opinion, doesn't permit a long-term colony settlement on Mars. It's too early and there's much to be done in terms of infrastructures on the ground before attempting such an adventure.



    Count me one of them
    Why not a dual approach? "boots on the ground" to drum up public (taxpayer) support for Mars exploration, but also do unmanned missions at the same time?
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    I am not denying the advantages of having boots on the ground, but we are a LONG way from what you're describing. As of right now, even with many ''airdrops'' of supplies and equipment, a human colony on Mars would not survive. Manned mission could take place, but the astronauts would need to be able to go back to Earth. And that right there is the biggest issue.
    . . .



    As of right now, our tech, in my opinion, doesn't permit a long-term colony settlement on Mars. It's too early and there's much to be done in terms of infrastructures on the ground before attempting such an adventure.
    I absolutely agree with this first colony set-up being a wild dream. Besides adequate shelter and food supplies ---- *water* is desperately needed to sustain healthy and CLEAN living conditions. Our current plastic world is destroying earth's water supplies... in the pipes and what resides within the ground and recycled water systems.

    My own pessimistic side has been wondering...
    What about medical? Has anyone thought that once people get to Mars and stay there, if someone falls and injures their body, who is qualified to pick up in place of that one downed person? Won't last long, if recovery requires weeks, if not months to spring back. Too many "what if" scenarios of things going wrong, than working 100% that could happen, that might not be factored into the first few colonizations onto Mars.

    I still see Mars as a dead planet... no trees, no useful building materials, nor oxygen air producers, no drinkable/usuable water, and dirt/rocks everywhere, with those annual dust storms that last about 3 weeks at a time. Sun is more distant to Mars than it is to earth, which means colder air temps too. brrrrrrrrrrrr.

  7. #27
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    Quote Originally Posted by SGalisa View Post
    I absolutely agree with this first colony set-up being a wild dream. Besides adequate shelter and food supplies ---- *water* is desperately needed to sustain healthy and CLEAN living conditions.
    Even with all this, safety is not guaranteed. Water shouldn't be a problem really, since high quantities of ice can be found in Mars subterranean environment, but more importantly, we have the tech to harvest H20 of Mars atmosphere. The atmosphere is ''squeezed'' to produce both oxygen and water. Now will this be sufficient, that is the question that nobody can truly answer.

    My own pessimistic side has been wondering...
    What about medical?
    Well the folks that would embark on such a mission would be highly qualified in their own respective fields. Doctors, scientists, maybe military men, kind of like a SG team. I'm pretty sure 90% of the astronauts are doctors already so I don't think that's an issue.


    I still see Mars as a dead planet...
    That's what it looks like, we can now say for sure that Mars used to have many rivers and water channels. Perhaps even many lakes. Maybe its not so dead on the inside, we'll need to wait a couple years for Mars2020 for that.

    The objective is no to thrive on this planet, in the short term at least. The objective is to have humanity spread out on more than one planet so if one of your biblical Apocalypse vision comes true, we won't be all wiped out.

  8. #28
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    Long time without updates... not much going on but I'll try to keep up!

    2019-01-24 OPPORTUNITY UPDATE

    Sadly still no contact with the craft since last June.

    Spoiler:
    "Fifteen years on the surface of Mars is testament not only to a magnificent machine of exploration but the dedicated and talented team behind it that has allowed us to expand our discovery space of the Red Planet," said John Callas, project manager for Opportunity at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California. "However, this anniversary cannot help but be a little bittersweet as at present we don't know the rover's status. We are doing everything in our power to communicate with Opportunity, but as time goes on, the probability of a successful contact with the rover continues to diminish."


    2019-01-18 OPPORTUNITYInSIGHT ROVER LATEST ENTRY

    After a few tries, I’ve successfully stowed my grapple, by grabbing a small restraint mounted on my arm. Sort of a Martian twist on the classic cup-and-ball game.
    Last edited by Chaka-Z0; January 25th, 2019 at 10:25 AM.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  9. #29
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    2019-02-05 INSIGHT UPDATE

    Over the weekend, InSight successfully installed a little dome over the seismometer (SM). This should reduce ''noise'' to a minimal quantity, in order to get accurate data of Mars' heartbeat. Here's a bit from a NASA article explaining the construction of the instrument, which is quite interesting. The SM is made of extremely sensible parts which are affected by Mars shifting temperatures, ranging from extreme cold to extreme heat. The parts were built so some expand or contract, to nullify the effects of temperatures on the equipment.

    8407_PIA22959.jpg

    Why is it taking so long?

    Keep in mind the rover needs to recharge its battery every time an operation is done, and that takes a couple days, depending on the amount of sunlight absorbed by the solar panels. Every single move is calculated, planned and analyzed to ensure efficiency. Once the adjustments are made, NASA will get its preliminary readings and perhaps will reveal some very intriguing data.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  10. #30
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    2019-02-21 INSIGHT UPDATE

    Phew! ?? What a thorough arm workout. I’ve released my heat flow probe on #Mars, and now I can check “instrument placement” off my to-do list. Lots of insightful science ahead.?

    Seems like NASA is having fun with this whole ordeal, see below for a comic ''A mole will land on Mars''

    https://theoatmeal.com/comics/insight
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  11. #31
    First Lieutenant imzadi35's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/techn...id=mailsignout

    This article about a 'superhubble' is interesting!
    Turas maith, slán abhaile
    (Safe Journey, Safe Home)

    John 3:16
    Sidney Freedman from M*A*S*H: "Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice."

  12. #32
    First Lieutenant imzadi35's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    https://ktla.com/2019/03/01/nasas-in...gging-on-mars/

    NASA’s InSight Lander Hits a Few Snags as It Starts Digging on Mars
    Turas maith, slán abhaile
    (Safe Journey, Safe Home)

    John 3:16
    Sidney Freedman from M*A*S*H: "Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice."

  13. #33
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    This could be interesting to the folks that infest this place.....

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/11/healt...lts/index.html
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  14. #34
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    Interesting thing to find on the surface of Mars.

    Mysterious 'Star Trek logo' spotted on Mars by NASA

    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  15. #35
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    Interesting thing to find on the surface of Mars.

    Mysterious 'Star Trek logo' spotted on Mars by NASA

    The lizards are at it again!

    I'd say more than likely a coincidence, otherwise if NASA suspected it was extraterrestrials this shot would not have been published for 20-30 years. Thanks for sharing Annoyed!
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  16. #36
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    LightSail 2 Spacecraft Success!

    "We're thrilled to announce mission success for LightSail 2," said LightSail program manager and Planetary Society chief scientist Bruce Betts. "Our criteria was to demonstrate controlled solar sailing in a CubeSat by changing the spacecraft’s orbit using only the light pressure of the Sun, something that’s never been done before. I'm enormously proud of this team. It's been a long road and we did it."

    A couple years ago I read a little about those experiments and they had a ton of issues regarding folding the sail and successful deployment into space.

    This is a revolutionary propulsion method, zero energy requirement, it's powered by the sun! Also it opens up the opportunity for lower-budget missions, which is great. Obviously the science behind how it works exactly is way beyond me but I thought this is a very interesting news.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  17. #37
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    LightSail 2 Spacecraft Success!




    A couple years ago I read a little about those experiments and they had a ton of issues regarding folding the sail and successful deployment into space.

    This is a revolutionary propulsion method, zero energy requirement, it's powered by the sun! Also it opens up the opportunity for lower-budget missions, which is great. Obviously the science behind how it works exactly is way beyond me but I thought this is a very interesting news.
    As I understand it, the science is basic. Light (photons), while not having mass, does have momentum and can exert pressure on an object, allowing solar sails to work.

    However, the bigger concern is the effect on the environment. Since the enviros knee jerk reaction to any source of energy is opposition, I would expect them to start bellyaching about it and before long there will be new laws banning the use of this form of energy.
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  18. #38
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    As I understand it, the science is basic. Light (photons), while not having mass, does have momentum and can exert pressure on an object, allowing solar sails to work.
    The biggest issue with propulsion in space is the limitations of thrusters. An action causes an opposite reaction and ultimately the fuel runs out, both aspects severely limiting achievable top speeds.

    This experiment had one goal: to demonstrate it is possible to use solar wind sails and also, probably the toughest part, steer the craft. The different pictures in the article show just how complex it is.

    A spacecraft can't rely on solar wind alone though since even in our solar system a few areas around Jupiter (most ppl don't realize how big this planet is) for instance blocks most of the wind therefore would leave this craft dead in the water (and further into deep space obviously).

    The conclusions will be used and applied to the upcoming, new generation crafts from NASA which is... Laser propulsed Sails. The potential is incredible, with a working prototype of a laser propulsed sail it would reduce the travel time from Earth to Mars to 3-4 days instead of 5 months. Crazy eh?

    EDIT: 3-4 days being the estimation to send a robot, not humans, that'd be too heavy.
    Last edited by Chaka-Z0; August 1st, 2019 at 09:42 AM.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  19. #39
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    The biggest issue with propulsion in space is the limitations of thrusters. An action causes an opposite reaction and ultimately the fuel runs out, both aspects severely limiting achievable top speeds.

    This experiment had one goal: to demonstrate it is possible to use solar wind sails and also, probably the toughest part, steer the craft. The different pictures in the article show just how complex it is.

    A spacecraft can't rely on solar wind alone though since even in our solar system a few areas around Jupiter (most ppl don't realize how big this planet is) for instance blocks most of the wind therefore would leave this craft dead in the water (and further into deep space obviously).

    The conclusions will be used and applied to the upcoming, new generation crafts from NASA which is... Laser propulsed Sails. The potential is incredible, with a working prototype of a laser propulsed sail it would reduce the travel time from Earth to Mars to 3-4 days instead of 5 months. Crazy eh?

    EDIT: 3-4 days being the estimation to send a robot, not humans, that'd be too heavy.
    The biggest problem faced by ANY mode of transportation is energy storage or generation. We don't have the needed tech in that arena yet.

    That said, your transit of Jupiter scenario isn't quite accurate. In space, an object will continue on it's course as long as nothing influences it. So as long as they have the thing on the proper trajectory when we lose LOS with it, we can regain control when it emerges from the shadow.

    And as always, never forget the enviros. They will find an excuse to oppose this, or any energy generation or usage technology.
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
    - Starship Voyager's Holographic Doctor
    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
    - Former Borg Seven of Nine

  20. #40
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Space Exploration News - NASA / Others

    A laser can be powered by a mere few solar panels. This type of craft doesn't need ANY major equipment for power generation or conservation or distribution. Take a car, remove the engine and slap a big sail on it.

    The craft has some sort of rotationary engine that enables the folding of the sail thus steering it where needed.

    That's for the unmanned missions.
    Last edited by Chaka-Z0; August 1st, 2019 at 01:18 PM.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

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