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  1. #1
    First Lieutenant StargateMillennium's Avatar
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    Default I want to see how people answer this philosophical question

    I just want to see what people have to say.

    If every villain is the hero of their own story, then how do you know that you're not a villain?


    Stargate spin off series: Stargate Millennium
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  2. #2
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to see how people answer this philosophical question

    A good writer gives some good and bad skills for their heroes and villains, so nobody should be only clearly good and clearly bad, because then the audience won't believe in these comic type cathegories. Then the fate of a character is decided where this little scale tilt. A really annyoing or strange character can be still a hero, if he or she can make occasionally selfless decisions for the greater good and the his or her local community. While a villain is a villain when most of his or her acts are bad or evil without considering any consequences. Ocassionally they can still do good things.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

  3. #3
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to see how people answer this philosophical question

    You either die a Hero, or live long enough to see yourself become a villain.

  4. #4
    General Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to see how people answer this philosophical question

    A villain never sees themselves as the villain, and the hero only sees the villain as a villain because they do all the wrong things for the villain's right reasons which are obviously not so according to the hero.

    Heroes and villains are an invention of human kind to see the difference between good and evil, but what is good and evil. What I think is good, might be evil for you and vice versa.
    The Tale of Heightmeyer's Lemming by Falcon Horus

    icon & signature by Falcon Horus || The Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson's Research || Pharaoh Hamenthotep @ Patreon
    Proper Stargate Rewatch still happening right now -- season 6 of SG-1

  5. #5
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to see how people answer this philosophical question

    Sometimes I have felt the SG-1 turned into a parody with such slogens "another day to save the galaxy". Okay, we can't cry nonstoply in a scifi show and it needs light and funny moment just I have felt sometimes they have broken their own serious image as they were so ultra successfull heroes in SG-1 and Atlantis. If we could make a red shirt quiz, you could notice how many people died because of them, but our super heroes forgot these losses way too easily. Universe is the opposite, where everybody is a bit too dark and they cry about everything as the whole season 1 is so overdramatic and depressive, so they really have to find the right balance between humor and serious moments, character development and discovery etc. Audience likes such "bad" guys who we can love to hate. Baal, Michael,Todd or Rush are the perfect examples that even a negative figure can be accepted by the audience. Or if you remember House MD or Locke (from LOST), they were also perfect characters because they had good and bad skills and habits.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

  6. #6
    Captain WraithRichard's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to see how people answer this philosophical question

    You're not a good buy just because you fight bad guys. You're a good guy because you do good things.
    Price for Pain What do you mean violence isn't the answer?

    Burn It All Away Blood moves the heavens. Fire purifies the land. Legends change worlds. Destiny burns.

    Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Fiat justitia et pereat mundus. Fiat justitia ruat caelum.



    All are PG-13, each with a single act of rated R violence. Adults situations and other, tamer violence.

    Ficta voluptatis causa sint proxima veris


    I'm creating a fan comic and I want input from as many fans as possible. Please PM me if you want the discord link. You can also chat, show off your own creations, and rp.

  7. #7
    Probie Ohmy Desalad's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to see how people answer this philosophical question

    Real life is complex I think we all inadvertently but sometimes deliberately take on the role of hero, and simultaneously (hopefully unintentionally) the role of villain in the lives of those we interact with. If you literally would describe yourself as a hero, rather then say a person trying to do their best to do good in the world, that might not be a good sign, seeing as the hero or heroes in fiction are usually the protagonist. If you believe yourself to be the main character of reality, then you might be a narcissist.

    In fiction generally the heroes exhibit characteristics that are considered admirable and beneficial to civilization, according to the culture of the creator and the consumers of that particular work of fiction. Imagine how very different Stargate would be like if it was written by Goa'ulds for Goa'ulds. What the Tollans did Klorel is a biased injustice committed by a bunch of hypocritical cattle that could only get away with it because they had the protection of their dammed ion canons.

  8. #8
    Staff Sergeant Bad Wolf the Artist's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to see how people answer this philosophical question

    I have pondered this question. What if I am the villain of the story? I guess the way I take it is that real life there is not really villains and heroes. I would say you are the main character of your story not the hero. I prefer the terms protagonist and antagonist to heroes and villains. In real life is pure good or pure bad.

  9. #9
    General Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to see how people answer this philosophical question

    I think the villain has a lot more fun though. They have less rules to follow than the hero.
    The Tale of Heightmeyer's Lemming by Falcon Horus

    icon & signature by Falcon Horus || The Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson's Research || Pharaoh Hamenthotep @ Patreon
    Proper Stargate Rewatch still happening right now -- season 6 of SG-1

  10. #10
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    Default Re: I want to see how people answer this philosophical question

    Not necessarily. Sometimes the villain is the one who insists on following all rules precisely as written, even when the rule has become outdated (or even impossible to follow).

    Seaboe
    If you're going to allow yourself to be offended by a cat, you might as well just pack it in -- Steven Brust

  11. #11
    General Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to see how people answer this philosophical question

    Quote Originally Posted by Seaboe Muffinchucker View Post
    Not necessarily. Sometimes the villain is the one who insists on following all rules precisely as written, even when the rule has become outdated (or even impossible to follow).
    Darn, forgot about the Code of Honor.
    The Tale of Heightmeyer's Lemming by Falcon Horus

    icon & signature by Falcon Horus || The Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson's Research || Pharaoh Hamenthotep @ Patreon
    Proper Stargate Rewatch still happening right now -- season 6 of SG-1

  12. #12
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to see how people answer this philosophical question

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    A villain never sees themselves as the villain, and the hero only sees the villain as a villain because they do all the wrong things for the villain's right reasons which are obviously not so according to the hero.
    This has become a bit of a cliche in its own right. It serves as a helpful reminder to create less one dimensional villains because many do, in fact, have justifications for their actions and do think of themselves as the good guys. In trying to get people to recognize that, however, we seem to have created this idea that nobody is capable of seeing their actions as bad. That is not only untrue, but showing a bad guy who struggles with the morality of his/her actions or exploring how someone accepts doing things that he/she perceives as wrong makes for some of the most interesting character studies.

    There have been mobsters, for example, who have relayed that they knew they were "going to hell" while engaging in illegal behavior. Some were born to farmers in absolute poverty and found a way to go through with activities that they felt they had to in order to uplift themselves and provide for their families, but although they can de-compartmentalize to a degree, they're very much aware that their behavior is not in line with what society and religion considers good behavior and that weighs on them to varying degrees.

    That translates to a large range of criminal behavior. People will find a way to do self-serving things, while being aware that they're wrong. The idea that they may be able to seek absolution down the road is one thing that may work for them. An alternative is that they may feel they've already done so much harm that it doesn't matter and they might as well continue.

    If you've ever taken a writing class one thing you're bound do hear is the phrase "show don't tell." It's a simple rule of thumb that is aimed at trying to get beginning writers to convey information through things like actions and thoughts rather than exposition. Sometimes instructors will explain that this is a rule of thumb aimed at helping beginning writers get away from over explaining things and that as they become adept in the form, they will be able to determine when it's a good idea to break the rule. Other times it's left for people to figure this out on their own, so there ends up being people who go around treating this as an absolutism and criticizing any instance where information is told.

    "People don't see themselves as evil" is the same thing. It's a talking point aimed at getting beginning writers to move away from the mustache twirling archetypes who revels in their own evilness, but if treated as an absolutism it prevents people from exploring the full range of the human condition. So although it's a helpful guide, at some point it needs to be disregarded and replaced with a careful read through of psychology journals on the subject and digging into interviews with real criminals.

  13. #13
    General Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to see how people answer this philosophical question

    I prefer a complex villain, for the record.
    The Tale of Heightmeyer's Lemming by Falcon Horus

    icon & signature by Falcon Horus || The Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson's Research || Pharaoh Hamenthotep @ Patreon
    Proper Stargate Rewatch still happening right now -- season 6 of SG-1

  14. #14
    Lieutenant Colonel Az'ryel's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to see how people answer this philosophical question

    Quote Originally Posted by StargateMillennium View Post
    I just want to see what people have to say.

    If every villain is the hero of their own story, then how do you know that you're not a villain?
    You cannot.

    It all depends on the point of view. As an example, a man who steals food from a merchant is a bad guy to the merchant but a good guy to his family he saves with that action from starving.
    Things must be put into relations with the reason they are done for and even then you can always argue if the reason was a good one or not

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