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  1. #61
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    We talked about the Pegasus anchestor thread about this. If every human had Ancients origin in the Pegasus galaxy as the second form the "normal" humans were never carried there, then technically everyone must have the ATA-gene. It also means if the Wraith has purely evolved from the Iratus bug then they won't have the ATA-genes, but I am guessing the Iratus evolution was accelerated when they managed to feed on an Ancient body. That would explain why they can drain or give back life force.

    https://forum.gateworld.net/threads/...raith-Heritage
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  2. #62
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    And what is the effect of giving back life force on a Wraith? Is it like fasting? It is akin to altruism beyond question. Is it theoretically possible that a Wraith could give back so much that the human reverts younger? And why is it that a Wraith cannot feed on a fellow wraith?

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    If every human had Ancients origin in the Pegasus galaxy as the second form the "normal" humans were never carried there, then technically everyone must have the ATA-gene.
    Could you expand on this? Every second evolution human was created by the Ancients to not have the ATA gene by design. Those who do have it are the product of Ancients later having children with humans. I have no clue why you think everyone should have the gene.

  4. #64
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Pegasus was separated from the Milky Way. Only the Ancients lived there as far as I know as the Goa'uld or the Asgard has never brought humans there. So maybe it was not clearly communicated, but I believe all "human looking" civilzations were descendants of Ancients in the Pegasus galaxy. Maybe there were some genetic degradation, but their ancesteros must have been Ancients.

    If you read the other thread, I wrote down a few genetic steps (and a little genetic related mini fan fiction how the Goa'uld turned evil or what is the case with the Harsiesis), but I will try to repeat in a shorter version. There is no such things in genetic as "random" skill. Something is inherited or not. It can be expressed by dominant allels or maybe supressed as the body carried the recessive allel. So if everyone was Ancient, then all of them must have had the ATA gene. Because why would they setup such genetic marker that Ancient No 1 can use it, but not Ancient persone No 2? So whoever was fighting against the Wraith or later ascended or returned to Earth, they all must have carried this gene. Since there was no humans, no second form in the Pegasus galaxy, the "original" Ancients must have degredated genetically. Imagine it like a genetic skill which is weakened and weakened or maybe there was a mutation there etc. That is the reason I believe that most of the Pegagus "humans" should have the ATA-genes.

    My theory was that the Wraith was evolved with the Iratus bug-Ancient combo. Maybe the hologram spoke about the insects, that they looked like a local animals in the Pegasus galaxy, but then somehow they managed to "capture" and to feed on Ancients. That could be a cool story why every Wraith Queen was played by the same actress.

    But it also means that the Wraith should be probably also ATA-gene carriers, but we don't know how the evolution happened. If the Iratus gained Ancient genetic materials etc.

    Back to the MW humans. It sounds a nonsense that the ATA-genes shows up randomly in the MW galaxy. I mean maybe some people still carried them, like 0,001% of the population. But it also means that if these carrier people could have children together then the chances would be much higher to have a child with ATA-genes.

    Then we return to the original problem. The Ancients settled down to create colonies in the Pegasus galaxy. And they were creating couples / families within each other, then all the future generations should carry this genetic material.

    By the way it can be still explained with a believeable scifi solution. Maybe the genes are activated only in specific environment or planet. Maybe the genes were removed by force by the Wraith or the Vanir, so they wanted to weaken them to not use Ancient technology against them etc.
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  5. #65
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    I think the Ancients seeded Pegasus with human life, much like what they did in the Milky Way after they left, instead of colonizing the entire galaxy themselves. And these settlements were eventually cut off during the war "until only Atlantis remained". I don't exactly know how much evidence there is to corroborate this, but I have a feeling it was mentioned or implied.

    In any case, I don't think everyone in Pegasus has the ATA gene. Even if all humans were direct descendants of the Ancients, it's also possible that the ATA gene degraded due to the Wraith cullings somehow, though I'm just winging it now. It was never really any concern in the show, considering enough of the expedition had the gene, either naturally or through gene therapy.

    I could believe that the Wraith did partially inherited traits from the Ancients, considering they understood their technology very well and adapted it for their own, and that they were using a language derived from Ancient. Maybe some Wraith abilities were inherited or adapted from the Ancients? Perhaps the whole feeding/healing ability was either adapted or partially inherited from the Ancients' healing abilities? Perhaps their ability to project illusions would be similarly based on certain Ancient abilities or traits? Again, I'm just winging it, but it's interesting...

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    Pegasus was separated from the Milky Way. Only the Ancients lived there as far as I know as the Goa'uld or the Asgard has never brought humans there. So maybe it was not clearly communicated, but I believe all "human looking" civilzations were descendants of Ancients in the Pegasus galaxy. Maybe there were some genetic degradation, but their ancesteros must have been Ancients.
    Why must they have been Ancients? It was never established how exactly the Ancients seeded human life in the Pegasus galaxy, so we don't know whether they test-tubed them into existence, instigated their evolution there as they did on Earth, or took them from Earth. I see no reason, however, to think that one of those things did not happen and instead the humans in the Pegasus galaxy are product of some Ancients "de-evolving," which seems rather far-fetched.

    Also, if the majority of the humans in the galaxy don't have the ATA gene anymore because the Wraith removed it from them (the Asgard, who have been operating in secret since day 1, wouldn't have had the resources to do that on a galaxy-wide level) why don't they use the same means to strip it from those who do have it? If what you think they have is a retrovirus that can target large population centers and spread from person-to-person, you'd think they would try to weaponize it against the Atlantis expedition. If it's something that prevents people from spreading the gene to their children then you'd similarly think they would use it on protected populations like the ones living in Atlantis' sister-ship from "The Tower." The Wraith may not believe it's worth it to try to take the planet by force, but they could get around its drones rather easily by crash landing a dispersal method or sending infected humans through the Stargate to spread it (depending on how it works), and then waiting a generation before moving in.

  7. #67
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    Why must they have been Ancients? It was never established how exactly the Ancients seeded human life in the Pegasus galaxy, so we don't know whether they test-tubed them into existence, instigated their evolution there as they did on Earth, or took them from Earth. I see no reason, however, to think that one of those things did not happen and instead the humans in the Pegasus galaxy are product of some Ancients "de-evolving," which seems rather far-fetched.
    The Ancients definitely did not take humans from Earth, since there were no humans on Earth since they left. And the second evolution of humans on Earth took several million years before they were human. Since they built the Dakara superweapon, the Ancients definitely had the knowledge and technology to develop organic (human) life even before they left, so seeding is much more likely and much more plausible.

    I firmly believe, though it's never actually proven outright, that all humans in the Pegasus galaxy right now are the descendants of humans seeded throughout the galaxy by the Ancients, and of the Ancients themselves who could have lived among them. When the Ancients left the galaxy, Atlantis was all that remained, so it's clear that all other Ancients who lived in the galaxy have either died, retreated to the city, left the galaxy of their own accord, or went into hiding. But since the population of Pegasus is more expansive than on Earth, the interbreeding between Ancients and humans would probably have reduced the effectiveness of the ATA gene much more until it was even rarer than on Earth; this would explain "The Tower".

    Also, since the Ancients left Pegasus, the Wraith have been using humans as cattle so they have some kind of population control, which could have affected the interbreeding with the ATA gene as well; perhaps at first the Wraith selectively bred humans to deliberately erase the ATA gene to prevent any humans from ever learning about their ancestry and being able to use Ancient technology and the stargates against them. Simply by feeding on those with the ATA gene in their ancestry first would do that.

  8. #68
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Hopefully I'm not making this up, but I thought at some point in SGA it was said that the Ancients were divided in regards to the approach to Ascension. Some followed the ''science'' path, and some followed the ''religious'' path and a few colonies stayed behind to find their own path to ascension.

    The episode (can't remember the name) where an Ancient poses as a God on that planet with the big electric weapon would be one of those Religious Ancient I guess.

  9. #69
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    that does sound familiar, but basically we do not know if by seeding life they simply sent genetic samples to worlds that would naturally evolve over millions of year... but the general theory is they grew humans and released them and talked with htem and raised them as adopted children to a degree or as pets even, they made a second class of humans that they released on worlds, to see where evolution would take them or for some other more altruistic reason for allowing life to exist, however, they created second class humans, they arent ancients, they are less then ancients, that is why we do not know why, perhaps the ancients are not naturally evolved and are actually somewhat embarrased to be heavily genetically modified by science so they recreate their past selves to let evolution play out the way it should have naturally

  10. #70
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Hopefully I'm not making this up, but I thought at some point in SGA it was said that the Ancients were divided in regards to the approach to Ascension. Some followed the ''science'' path, and some followed the ''religious'' path and a few colonies stayed behind to find their own path to ascension.

    The episode (can't remember the name) where an Ancient poses as a God on that planet with the big electric weapon would be one of those Religious Ancient I guess.
    I think you're confusing this with the Alterans and Ori. There was no conflict in Pegasus between the Ancients.

    I think the episode you refer to is "Sanctuary" where an ascended Ancient was banished when she protected a planet against the Wraith and was forced to maintain that planet's protection without ever being able to help anyone else. When Shepard's team arrives over the planet, their Jumper was attacked by Wraith darts. The darts were destroyed by a "weapon", in reality the Ancient. The planet could not accept the Expedition as refugees, because she was not allowed to help anyone but those who come from the planet.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Strange though that the Wraith, who have had the experience of eating food until their teenage years don't long for the variety of foods available and therefore don't have scientists working 24/7 to find an alternative to feeding on the life force of a single being - the human. Either they should have looked for alternative beings or a way to restore normal eating.

    After all, any entity that can engage in interplanetary travel surely should be able to come up with a way that improves themselves either medically or in this case nutritionally. Plus when they feed they emit the grunting of regular animals. After seeing humans for so long, one would think that Wraith would by this time seek alternatives for his species.

  12. #72
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by nivao View Post
    I think you're confusing this with the Alterans and Ori. There was no conflict in Pegasus between the Ancients.

    I think the episode you refer to is "Sanctuary" ...
    Seems like you're right, thx.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by nivao View Post
    The Ancients definitely did not take humans from Earth, since there were no humans on Earth since they left. And the second evolution of humans on Earth took several million years before they were human. Since they built the Dakara superweapon, the Ancients definitely had the knowledge and technology to develop organic (human) life even before they left, so seeding is much more likely and much more plausible.
    The scenario in which they would've taken them from Earth would have involved them going there within the last few hundred thousand years, not taking them along when they left 5-10 million years ago. I doubt that this happened because we know that the Ancients initially thought that they would find the remains of their old civilization when fleeing to the Milky Way 10,000 years ago and upon learning that they would have to practically rebuild from scratch they gave up on that ambition. This would suggest that the Milky Way was considered off limits prior to the end of the Wraith war when they were desperate enough to risk going back. This would make sense as they had a valid reason to be concerned that the plague might have survived in some form (it did; in Ayiana).

    That said, it's possible. We don't know when humans first appeared in the Pegasus galaxy, there probably would've been a lot more remaining Ancient technology in the Milky Way a few hundred of thousand years ago as it would predate the Goa'uld's scavenging efforts, and it could be that in this scenario the Ancients simply went straight to Earth without doing an analysis of what remained elsewhere in the galaxy. I'm not sure why they would risk even that level of contact when they're the Ancients and should have the means to recreate their form, but I'm willing to set my doubts aside and include it on a list of possibilities.

    But since the population of Pegasus is more expansive than on Earth, the interbreeding between Ancients and humans would probably have reduced the effectiveness of the ATA gene much more until it was even rarer than on Earth; this would explain "The Tower".
    It's also worth noting that there very well could be at least two points in which the ATA gene entered Earth's population. The one we definitively know about was 10,000 years ago, but there was also a season 9 or 10 episode of Sg-1 where there was some vague talk about Merlin possibly having a role in helping women to get pregnant. This may very well have been intended to set up a later reveal that Merlin was introducing the ATA gene into the human population ~1,500 years ago. This is, of course, speculative, but it was a weird thing to bring up, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was hinting at something they wanted to address later. It would also explain why people named Sheppard and O'neill have such a pronounced Chair Interface Aptitude. And why Beckett is second to Sheppard among those in Atlantis.

    Also, the two Pegasus populations with the ATA gene that we know about seemed pretty isolated. It's unlikely that the people living around an Ancient city ship, for example, would leave the safety of its drones (unless exiled by the royalty) and it doesn't appear that they were taking in refugees (mention was made of only a small number of villages in the area), so it doesn't look like there was that much exchange between them and humans elsewhere in the galaxy. Rather, it looks like they were quite in-bred. Their ATA gene problems may have had more to do with it being the product of a smaller number of Ancients in the bloodline, maybe even just a single one who got left behind. In contrast, millions of Ancients flooded back to Earth 10,000 years ago and who knows how many of them reproduced with humans, but it's likely a decently high number.

    Also, since the Ancients left Pegasus, the Wraith have been using humans as cattle so they have some kind of population control, which could have affected the interbreeding with the ATA gene as well; perhaps at first the Wraith selectively bred humans to deliberately erase the ATA gene to prevent any humans from ever learning about their ancestry and being able to use Ancient technology and the stargates against them. Simply by feeding on those with the ATA gene in their ancestry first would do that.
    Possibly, but that's a lot of effort. The only Wraith ATA gene detection method that we know about is a small orb that activates on contact. Using a skin contact method to test people before feeding on them is tedious and dangerous work. The Wraith prefer shock and awe tactics, which involve picking off stranglers with darts or by shooting whoever they can with stunners and then quickly retreating through the Stargate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Hopefully I'm not making this up, but I thought at some point in SGA it was said that the Ancients were divided in regards to the approach to Ascension. Some followed the ''science'' path, and some followed the ''religious'' path and a few colonies stayed behind to find their own path to ascension.
    The closest thing to this came out of "The Pegasus Project" (season 10, episode 3 of Sg-1) when it was revealed that the Ancients returning to Earth took divergent paths. There wasn't a divide between science and religion, but some chose to live out their lives among humans and help plant the seeds of civilization while others (like Merlin and Morgan le Fey) chose to spend their lives trying to figure out how to ascend. A third group was said to have disappeared through the Stargate. Aside from Janus and his second time traveling jumper, we don't know what became of them, but they may have been the ones who formed the alliance of four.

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Gosh, every time those Wraith growl and bare their teeth I think of how they need to brush and whiten their teeth despite not eating food or smoking cigarettes and cigars....

  15. #75
    Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    What quote provided in this thread even suggests this? The one I pointed to explains that an iratus bug needs to gorge itself on a single human and then lay eggs shortly after, which will transfer some of the human DNA it absorbed to its offspring's genetic structure. The offspring would naturally then have to find another human to feed on, repeat the process, and, in doing so, pass on a little more DNA to its own offspring. Each generation would therefore have a little more human DNA in its genetic structure than its parent, allowing the bugs to eventually produce a humanoid hybrid after many generations.
    Because Michael ENGINEERED that system, nature did not.
    To summarize, what this means is that each generation needs to feed on only a single human right before it lays its eggs. Primitive humans seeded on these bugs' native planet would have been ill-equipped to completely prevent iratus bug attacks (we can't even completely protect people from being fed on by vampire bats today).
    What happens when a population cannot defend itself?
    It dies.
    How does a bug get more human DNA if they have killed all the humans?
    Mckay is ego driven. He exaggerates his own capabilities (unless under pressure). He doesn't make every number about every subject bigger out of some no-purpose love of big numbers.
    I did not say "big number", I said overblow. If he can do it, he says a second, if he can't, he says it's impossible.
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  16. #76
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    Because Michael ENGINEERED that system, nature did not.
    No, Michael did not engineer the process I described to you in the part of my post that you quoted. That is how it works naturally. As I've said more than once now, in learning how Michael accelerated the natural process and how he selected for specific traits, we learned how the natural process works.

    He said that he allowed an iratus bug to gorge on a human and he said that it passed on human DNA to its offspring if it laid eggs shortly after feeding. AFTER he allowed the iratus bug to do this he manipulated the hybrid embyro's genetic material to "accelerate" the natural process.

    As I have said to you in a previous post, you're conflating the last two lines that I quoted with the first two. The first two explain how iratus bugs are able to naturally pass genetic material to their offspring. The second two deal with how he manipulated this process to produce humanoid beasties faster and with carefully selected traits.

    What happens when a population cannot defend itself?
    It dies.
    How does a bug get more human DNA if they have killed all the humans?
    Why so you think they couldn't defend themselves? People can build shelters and protections to guard against bitings. All these bugs need is to occasionally find a single careless person and feed on that person under the right conditions for the next generation to hybridize a little further.

    Predators regularly kill their prey in order to survive, but if they are too good at it and, in the process, kill off their entire food supply they would die off. The very existence of iratus bugs demonstrates that their non-human sources of food are able to to maintain sustainable populations and are not driven into extinction by X number of them being fed on and killed each year, so what makes you think humans, with their high problem solving and tool use capabilities would be over hunted by the iratus bugs?

    I did not say "big number", I said overblow. If he can do it, he says a second, if he can't, he says it's impossible.
    The number had nothing to do with his capabilities. Your examples of when he manipulates numbers speaks to my point that it's related to his ego. You did not offer any example of his exaggerating everyday numbers.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    No, Michael did not engineer the process I described to you in the part of my post that you quoted. That is how it works naturally. As I've said more than once now, in learning how Michael accelerated the natural process and how he selected for specific traits, we learned how the natural process works.
    It would work naturally if there was more and more human DNA to alter the bug DNA, but the bite KILLS people. Bugs can't work a stargate to get more human DNA to eat, once they kill a population, no more infusions of human DNA.
    Michael manipulated the process to achieve a goal because he had the ability to do so, and even his manipulations look nothing like a Wraith. They look more like super mutant hounds from fallout.
    He said that he allowed an iratus bug to gorge on a human and he said that it passed on human DNA to its offspring if it laid eggs shortly after feeding. AFTER he allowed the iratus bug to do this he manipulated the hybrid embyro's genetic material to "accelerate" the natural process.
    No, he repeated that process artificially. He gorged a parent, made a egg, gorged that egg, and gorged another egg and so on.
    As I have said to you in a previous post, you're conflating the last two lines that I quoted with the first two. The first two explain how iratus bugs are able to naturally pass genetic material to their offspring. The second two deal with how he manipulated this process to produce humanoid beasties faster and with carefully selected traits.
    They can pass along traits, absolutely, but if actually developing those traits requires a constant food source, that would not happen.

    Why so you think they couldn't defend themselves? People can build shelters and protections to guard against bitings. All these bugs need is to occasionally find a single careless person and feed on that person under the right conditions for the next generation to hybridize a little further.
    No, and this is my issue.
    People would -Naturally- defend against a threat, which would prevent a bug from getting the required infusion of DNA to evolve to a higher form. It's NOT an "occasional thing", it requires direct intervention.
    Niavo posited that the wraith evolved from feeding on an ancient, or more specifically, an semi-evolved ancient, and I actually agree with him/her.
    Predators regularly kill their prey in order to survive, but if they are too good at it and, in the process, kill off their entire food supply they would die off. The very existence of iratus bugs demonstrates that their non-human sources of food are able to to maintain sustainable populations and are not driven into extinction by X number of them being fed on and killed each year, so what makes you think humans, with their high problem solving and tool use capabilities would be over hunted by the iratus bugs?
    That's backwards.
    I think that BECAUSE of human intelligence, they would stay away from bug planets, and let them die off.
    The number had nothing to do with his capabilities. Your examples of when he manipulates numbers speaks to my point that it's related to his ego. You did not offer any example of his exaggerating everyday numbers.
    I agree it's all about his ego?
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  18. #78
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    It would work naturally if there was more and more human DNA to alter the bug DNA, but the bite KILLS people. Bugs can't work a stargate to get more human DNA to eat, once they kill a population, no more infusions of human DNA.
    You did see "Thirty-Eight Minutes"? Shepard got bitten by a bug and they took him back to Atlantis. The bugs could have easily spread throughout the galaxy, if they hadn't already, by the Ancients unknowingly allowing them to. They're very resilient, because even multiple gunshots at point blank range did not kill it. Knowing the Ancients they would take the bugs for studying, or take the victims to Atlantis or another outpost for treatment. The bugs could have stowed away on ships or whatever. We just don't have enough information. They could be quite intelligent for all we know. Since they based a lot on the Ancients, their language and basic technology, it's quite possible they learned how to use the gates very early in their evolution. You don't need opposable thumbs to press the big buttons on a DHD. And they definitely had sufficient time to figure out viable addresses, if they didn't already learned them from the Ancients themselves. They would've had more time then the Goa'uld did.

    All we do know is that the bugs eventually evolved into the Wraith. That's what this was all about and that has been proven several times now. All these other questions were never answered but that doesn't mean what did get explained on the show is not possible. A writer doesn't have to explain every little detail, and that would also be costly and time consuming. Especially with sci-fi and fantasy a lot of background is purposefully left open for interpretation. We've discussed what we do know about the Wraith and Iratus bugs and we've explained what that implies, and what other possible paths could be. That's it. Now we're going around in circles.

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    According to the hologram in the pilot, the Ancients seeded a thousand worlds with human life and then, at some point down the road, they stepped onto a dark world where they encountered a terrible enemy. This implies that the iratus bugs fed off a local population of humans that was self-contained on their homeworld. You have again repeated that the bugs kill individuals, but you have done nothing to say why you think they would be able to kill off the sum total of people living on a planet, which for all we know could have been in the hundreds of thousands or even millions before they spread to the land mass that the bugs were native to.

    You know what has killed people? The plague. It killed a LOT of people and it was difficult to protect against. These are large bugs that can be kept at bay by building structures and fended off with weapons. Not everyone would be successful in doing this all the time. There will always be "stragglers." Bugs will get into poorly designed or damaged structures just as vampire bats do, they will get people who are late getting home, etc. The poorer someone is, the more likely they would be a victim because their resources would be limited and their dependency on outdoor work would be high. This means that the bugs would both have enough people to feed on to continue the hybridization process and there would be enough people who weren't fed on to keep their human population going.

    That balance makes humans a sustainable food source. Humans stop becoming a sustainable food source when the iratus bugs turn into the Wraith and the Wraith develop technology that allows them to pummel human civilization to its meekest level and to harvest humans quickly and efficiently.

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by nivao View Post
    You did see "Thirty-Eight Minutes"? Shepard got bitten by a bug and they took him back to Atlantis. The bugs could have easily spread throughout the galaxy, if they hadn't already, by the Ancients unknowingly allowing them to. They're very resilient, because even multiple gunshots at point blank range did not kill it. Knowing the Ancients they would take the bugs for studying, or take the victims to Atlantis or another outpost for treatment. The bugs could have stowed away on ships or whatever. We just don't have enough information. They could be quite intelligent for all we know. Since they based a lot on the Ancients, their language and basic technology, it's quite possible they learned how to use the gates very early in their evolution. You don't need opposable thumbs to press the big buttons on a DHD. And they definitely had sufficient time to figure out viable addresses, if they didn't already learned them from the Ancients themselves. They would've had more time then the Goa'uld did.

    All we do know is that the bugs eventually evolved into the Wraith. That's what this was all about and that has been proven several times now. All these other questions were never answered but that doesn't mean what did get explained on the show is not possible. A writer doesn't have to explain every little detail, and that would also be costly and time consuming. Especially with sci-fi and fantasy a lot of background is purposefully left open for interpretation. We've discussed what we do know about the Wraith and Iratus bugs and we've explained what that implies, and what other possible paths could be. That's it. Now we're going around in circles.
    38 minutes requires a jumper to TAKE the bug, the bug CANNOT do it itself.
    The WRAITH use ancient tech and language, the BUGS do NOT.
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
    A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
    The truth isn't the truth

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