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  1. #21
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Davey View Post
    Was it ever a realistic possibility to capture a few Wraiths and experiment retrovirus techniques on them and create a group of normalizing Wraiths? What would a Wraith be like if in fact the DNA of the iranis bug were destroyed? Do they reproduce sexually?
    They were dealing with these questions, if you watch the show. Especially the 2x17 Michael, then the end of season 2 episode "Allies".
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

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  2. #22
    Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    All these questions have a familiar theme...…………………..
    I got it, it's the same theme when I speak to my kids about something they have never seen and they speak over the show when they give the answers.

    Davey, WATCH the show. you don't have to like it afterwards, you can tear it down along the way as well if you want. SGA is my favorite "SG" show but there where plenty of stinkers in there as well, but you are asking questions like there are no answers, yet all your answers exist within the show.
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Got it, will do. Thanks.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    After watching Season 2 Conversion I wondered about the overall significance of hybridizing the DNA of a human with ANY creature, animal, insect, whatever. Even more than the pure fictional Goa'uld, the Wraith is at least a potential reality. How much destruction can the Iratus bug create on a human? And given that there were all those eggs and insects in the cave, where were they going to get their nourishment if there were no humans around? Yes, I posted on that episode in the forum too. But these are general questions. What could be the effect of any type hybridizing? Where does the enormous strength come from? OK, I add these to my previous questions. Now on to watch the episode Michael.

  5. #25
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    I'm not sure if you know this, I think it was revealed in that episode, but the Wraith are mutated Iratus bugs. Due to feeding off of the Ancients during the war, they somehow mutated to mix human (Ancient) DNA with their own. After thousands of years, if not a couple of million, they mutated into the form we know today. The retrovirus would subdue the Iratus DNA and introduce more human DNA, thus making a Wraith more human.

    I think because the bugs are smaller, they require a simpler metabolism so don't need to completely "drain" a full-sized human to revitalize themselves. Then again, we never really saw any deeper clarification of the bugs' biology to understand them. The Wraith have "evolved" so there would be differences.
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  6. #26
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    He has seen only 3-4 episodes from the whole Atlantis as he hates the Wraith. So I have suggested a few episode names just to understand their motives in the spinoff, but maybe I should have suggested some random standalone episodes to convince him to watch this SG show.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


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  7. #27
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Just watched Michael and found it to be an outstanding presentation of the ethical issues involved in using the drug on the Wraith. However, in the final analysis if Beckett's drug worked Atlantis would have the very difficult job of continuing to blast the Wraith with the drug and THEN becoming morally responsible for taking care of what? Millions of Wraith in the universe who have become pure humans needed repeated treatments for the rest of their lives?!
    And more than anything else ---- how does one interact in diplomacy with an enemy who views humans as FOOD?!!
    Last edited by Davey; September 3rd, 2018 at 04:24 PM.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    What about a Goa'uld that takes over a Wraith host that was previously made a prior?
    I guess the closest we have seen of an encounter between a goa'uld and a wraith would be regarding the confrontation with the Trust and goa'uld occupied Colonel Caldwell..... But had it been closer.......say a goa'uld jumps onto the neck of a Wraith to save mankind by deceiving the wraith. There's alot of potential when humans team up with the evil goa'uld against the more evil wraith!

  9. #29
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    So you have seen more Atlantis episode then. Just watch the show all the episodes until you can.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Trinity has a fun evil wraith

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by nivao View Post
    I'm not sure if you know this, I think it was revealed in that episode, but the Wraith are mutated Iratus bugs. Due to feeding off of the Ancients during the war, they somehow mutated to mix human (Ancient) DNA with their own. After thousands of years, if not a couple of million, they mutated into the form we know today. The retrovirus would subdue the Iratus DNA and introduce more human DNA, thus making a Wraith more human.

    I think because the bugs are smaller, they require a simpler metabolism so don't need to completely "drain" a full-sized human to revitalize themselves. Then again, we never really saw any deeper clarification of the bugs' biology to understand them. The Wraith have "evolved" so there would be differences.
    Shep got turned (well almost) into a wraith by being bitten by a bug, so I'm not sure it's a generational evolution thing. It may have been accelerated by Ellie trying to feed on him however, but if that was the case, Ford should have gone full wraith by pumping himself full of wraith enzyme.
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
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  12. #32
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    Shep got turned (well almost) into a wraith by being bitten by a bug, so I'm not sure it's a generational evolution thing. It may have been accelerated by Ellie trying to feed on him however, but if that was the case, Ford should have gone full wraith by pumping himself full of wraith enzyme.
    The bugs turned into a humanoid form, not the other way around so still what happened to Shepard is no indication of the evolution of the Wraith.

    Specifically though, what happened to Shepard was unique. He would not have turned into a Wraith, but something closer to the Iratus bug. When Ellie attacked him, she had taken Beckett's experimental retrovirus that should have turned her into a full human but had the opposite effect; she became more like the Iratus bug. She tried feeding off of Shepard, which caused him to receive the enzyme and the mutated retrovirus. He then started to change into something less human and more like the Iratus bug. The flashback of Shepard being fed on by the bug in the earlier episode has no direct relation to this other than to reiterate that the Wraith mutated from the Iratus bugs and that he was attacked by one.

    TL;DR the retrovirus is the cause of Shepard mutating, whereas the regular feeding off of humans slowly evolved the Iratus bugs into the Wraith.
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  13. #33
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by nivao View Post
    The bugs turned into a humanoid form, not the other way around so still what happened to Shepard is no indication of the evolution of the Wraith.
    Are you sure about that?
    My memory is hazy, but I thought the reason the bugs still exist is because the bug is their natural form and the "human hybrid" is an evolution of that.
    Specifically though, what happened to Shepard was unique. He would not have turned into a Wraith, but something closer to the Iratus bug. When Ellie attacked him, she had taken Beckett's experimental retrovirus that should have turned her into a full human but had the opposite effect; she became more like the Iratus bug. She tried feeding off of Shepard, which caused him to receive the enzyme and the mutated retrovirus. He then started to change into something less human and more like the Iratus bug. The flashback of Shepard being fed on by the bug in the earlier episode has no direct relation to this other than to reiterate that the Wraith mutated from the Iratus bugs and that he was attacked by one.
    It's a good theory, but I'm not sold on it.
    Why did the wraith drone leave him there if the change is generational?
    TL;DR the retrovirus is the cause of Shepard mutating, whereas the regular feeding off of humans slowly evolved the Iratus bugs into the Wraith.
    Is that ever mentioned in the show?
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
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  14. #34
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    Are you sure about that?
    My memory is hazy, but I thought the reason the bugs still exist is because the bug is their natural form and the "human hybrid" is an evolution of that.
    Isn't that what I wrote? The bugs were their original form and they mutated into the Wraith over the course of some time while the Ancients were colonizing the galaxy. That doesn't mean every Iratus bug mutated. The general consensus is that we humans evolved from monkeys, yet monkeys still exist don't they?

    It's a good theory, but I'm not sold on it.
    It's not a theory as it's clearly explained on the show that Ellia was turning into something more bug and less human, and so was Shepard at some point. Their appearance (makeup) even shows that.

    Why did the wraith drone leave him there if the change is generational?
    If you mean the episode "Thirty-Eight Minutes", I don't know what you mean with that. The drone left Shepard there because he knew Shepard was going to die. What happened in that episode had nothing to do with the bugs evolving into Wraith or Shepard later changing into a human-Wraith/bug hybrid, it merely revealed that the Iratus bugs were what the Wraith originally were like.

    Is that ever mentioned in the show?
    It is revealed in "Thirty-Eight Minutes", and "Instinct" and "Conversion" expand on that with Ellia and the retrovirus.
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  15. #35
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Then of course there is the matter of interaction between the Wraith and Asgard. I couldn't understand the role of the Asgard puppet in Allies. I thought the Asgard had a specific limited role in SG1.

  16. #36
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Nivao is right, I actually rewatched SGA not so long ago and can confirm. The only reason they show this flashback scene of Shep and the bug is to give us a bit of context, but absolutely not related indeed. The first time around Shep seemed very ill, yet no mutation. Second time with Ellie/Ellia (aka Jewel Staite) he literally morphed into a gazunga-big-honking bug.

    I strongly believe that Wraith is the result of an experiment, possibly Ancient rather than *evolution* from the bug which makes no sense whatsoever. First off, it doesn't seem like a human-bug encounter is a friendly one, basically you die. Also who would have children with a Bug-infected human a la Sheppard? Natural evolution is a laughable hypothesis.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Well, the Wraith story line was worth it to produce Michael at least in Season 3 episode 1 which I just saw. And the retrovirus not to provide a feeding source but manpower for fighting the non-gassed Wraith. I never thought I'd like the disgusting Wraith. But right now I like Michael.....Too bad the retrovirus won't work on the females.....I hope Rodney and Beckett have something up their sleeves. In the meantime maybe Michael would be willing to restore humanity and eliminate the Iratus DNA. We see no signs of ethical struggle even for a Wraith, which itself makes me wonder why they don't or can't feed on themselves?!
    Last edited by Davey; September 4th, 2018 at 03:22 PM.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Well, since the Wraith only need to feed once in a few years, they have plenty of time to contemplate on their existence. After all, what do they do either on the hive ships or on their planet(s) in between? Do they go to the beach? Do they watch television or go to a football game? Do they get bored of feeding with a clear climactic orgasmic reaction once in some years?
    How do they feel about having only one source of "nourishment" in the entire universe?
    How would we feel if we could only get nourishment from cows which were becoming less available?
    Do they wonder how they got this way? Do they examine human life and wish they didn't have to live the way they do? Do they find any beauty or charm in their existence of plastic faces and animal growls when there is now a possibility to eliminate the Iratus DNA?

  19. #39
    Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by nivao View Post
    Isn't that what I wrote? The bugs were their original form and they mutated into the Wraith over the course of some time while the Ancients were colonizing the galaxy. That doesn't mean every Iratus bug mutated. The general consensus is that we humans evolved from monkeys, yet monkeys still exist don't they?
    My issue with this is, if a Iratus bug bite is inevitably fatal -HOW- do you get an evolution? The physics of a wraith popping out of a bug mother is beyond belief, the physics of a human coming from a monkey however is not.
    It's not a theory as it's clearly explained on the show that Ellia was turning into something more bug and less human, and so was Shepard at some point. Their appearance (makeup) even shows that.
    Sure, but you have the retrovirus playing around with that, in dosage levels even Beckett never intended.

    If you mean the episode "Thirty-Eight Minutes", I don't know what you mean with that. The drone left Shepard there because he knew Shepard was going to die. What happened in that episode had nothing to do with the bugs evolving into Wraith or Shepard later changing into a human-Wraith/bug hybrid, it merely revealed that the Iratus bugs were what the Wraith originally were like.
    Exactly, he KNEW Shep was going to die, that's my problem. You can't have an evolutionary path when the mating of genetics is fatal!

    It is revealed in "Thirty-Eight Minutes", and "Instinct" and "Conversion" expand on that with Ellia and the retrovirus.
    But it does not work in any real evolutionary sense. It can work in a "aliens" sense of going from one form to another form, but not in a natural evolution.
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
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  20. #40
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did SGA create the Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    My issue with this is, if a Iratus bug bite is inevitably fatal -HOW- do you get an evolution? The physics of a wraith popping out of a bug mother is beyond belief, the physics of a human coming from a monkey however is not.

    Sure, but you have the retrovirus playing around with that, in dosage levels even Beckett never intended.


    Exactly, he KNEW Shep was going to die, that's my problem. You can't have an evolutionary path when the mating of genetics is fatal!


    But it does not work in any real evolutionary sense. It can work in a "aliens" sense of going from one form to another form, but not in a natural evolution.
    How do you think evolution works? A human didn't suddenly "pop out" of a monkey. DNA changes over time, it's called mutation, as in the real kind of mutation not X-Men. By feeding off of humans, the Iratus bugs began to blend with human DNA, much like how the retrovirus attempts to override Wraith DNA with human DNA, except that with feeding it happens so slowly (and the retrovirus is, well, a virus that actively attacks Wraith DNA). Slowly, over time, their DNA mutated until eventually, after thousands of years, or a few million, they had become the Wraith as we know them. This didn't happen overnight like with the retrovirus.

    The bug was feeding off of Shepard, not mating with him (ugh). Shepard would have died, but the bug wouldn't. That feeding could have caused a slight, and I mean a very slight, mutation of the bugs DNA. Not enough to instantly change it into something human, but enough to be passed on to its offspring. If its offspring continues to feed on humans, and their offspring did the same, then their DNA would slowly change to incorporate human DNA. This may not be realistic; since when can something drain the life energy out of someone for food? But the change of DNA is how evolution works; the change of characteristics over successive generations.

    There is a difference between the evolution of the Iratus bug to the Wraith, and Shepard being being fed off of by a bug and later changing into a half-human/half-bug hybrid because of the retrovirus. These things are not linked except for the retrovirus suppressing or rewriting the Iratus bug DNA with human DNA, thus changing the Wraith into a full human. The virus initially didn't work and resulted in more of the Iratus bug DNA. Thus for both Ellia and Shepard their human DNA began to rapidly mutate (as in the fake kind) into Iratus DNA, making them both closer to the Iratus bug than human. It is that part that is fake as mutation doesn't work that way.
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